9-year-old Rides Subway Alone: Is Mom a Hero or an Abuser?

Are you currently, and actively, parenting? Because if you aren't, you don't have a bet down.

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

 People are so scared of danger that they are afraid to live their lives anyway!

Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure. Helen Keller

Let your kids experience life!

It's about the kid. In the city of New York, you're legally required to have safety bars on the windows of your house if there's a child there less than 10 years old. BECAUSE THEY MIGHT FALL OUT A STATIONARY WINDOW. The recommended age for children to stay home alone for a couple of hours is said to be 12, although I can't find a statute.

Of my children, in a small village where they literally know EVERY resident, one could go a few blocks to a friend's house at 9, one couldn't (being one of those people with NO sense of direction, at all) and one had no trouble with route, but didn't like walking past barking dogs.

 Whether this child is unnecessarily endangered by being alone on a subway is hard to tell. But my question is, "What's the point?" Where does a 9 year old have to go (or what important thing is the mom blogging about) that you couldn't just go together?

They're only 9 for 12 months. It seems to me more about having your kid up and out, so your party is resumed, than about any real concern for their 'independence', particularly when it looks like such a stunt.

I grew up in a world where there were mommies in every house and kids just ran the neighborhood, including taking subways and regional rail. Then I spent the first half of my adult life holding the hands of men and women who'd been abused in various ways during all that Ozzie and Harriet. I think it would be REALLY nice if my kids could skip that part, and if having parents who don't have to prove a point about public safety will get us there, that's fine with me.

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

hello,

Being a native new yorker myself, I would have to say that I started riding the trains alone at 8yrs old.  Children are given bus and train passes and ride the trains and busses on a daily basis to get to school.  If you are not from NY then it is easy for you to judge.  Life in the city differs from life in the country.

There are dangers out there. Heck, Elizabeth Smart and the little McCann girl were abducted from their beds. But I do not think actual dangers are anywhere near the perceived dangers parents fear these days. I can't live my life worrying about whether or not to let my kids sleep with the windows open if they're hot.

It's like any other decision. You evaluate the information you have, and make the best decision you can based on that information. I let my kids stay in the car if I'm returning a video, or buying gas. Other mothers would balk at that. And I totally understand that. I doubt if I would let my 9 year old ride the subway, but I think it's perfectly fine that Izzy's mother did.

Sheryl ( http://papernapkin.typepad.com/ )

When I wrote about this a few days ago all of the comments I read were entirely supportive of letting kids do more than we tend to want to.

But the one perspective I hadn't considered was the question, raised by Don Mills Diva, of whether or not she let her son ride in order to write about it.

That is using your child as means, not end. And Kant would have a fit. Let him ride the subway every day if that's your level of comfort, but don't do it as a stunt. You know what else I don't do as a stunt? Drop my daughter from airplanes.

I would let her ride the subway. I wouldn't decide to do it one day just to make a point. My daughter is more than a tool for MY social change agenda.

http://backpackingdad.blogspot.com ( http://backpackingdad.blogspot.com/ )

I thought that too, Suzanne when I first read the original post. I thought - she is somehow horribly out of touch with reality (the Today show expert).

Discretion. This situation boils down to discretion, in my opinion. I believe that if we felt that we could trust parents as well as trust ourselves, if we didn't KNOW about all the ways in which parents at the extremes abuse their discretion, it would be a lot easier to say that it was safe when we were kids and its safe now.

But cases like Lisa Steinberg ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Steinberg ) really pushed domestic violence and child abuse into the media and our minds in a way that few other cases had up until then (at least, that's how I remember it).

And since then, the parade of cases the media explores and exploits has continued.

Of course, there is no question: exposing some of these cases helps us think about whether something we see or even do constitutes an abuse of discretion as a parent, or something much worse. But it also causes us to fear for our children - from other people and in other places. And it's that fear that is controlling us, rather than our trust. Because we feel like we can't trust - we can't ever really know.

This is part of why it's so hard, for me anyway, to judge this mom. There seem to be some absolutes - say...four years old. But when I was five, and JUST five (mid-August bday), I was walking to and from school up the street from my home four times a day (to school, home for lunch, back to school and home again).

Those were days when at least one parent or relative was in the home and might be watching the kids go up and down the street and there were crosswalking guards.

Still - the chance is always there that a child could get injured or abducted.

Anyway - I guess I just believe that if we could feel more secure in trusting the judgement of others we wouldn't be so wound up about whether someone had made the right decision. People have us totally questioning ourselves all the time - and I won't tie it all up in the bundle that is feminism, but I do believe that's part of it - because not enough women make the rules and I believe that can influence the direction in which our views go re: whether something is ok or not.

Did I just ramble?

Jill
Writes Like She Talks ( http://www.writeslikeshetalks.com )

Regardless of whether she should have let her  son ride the train alone at age 9 so she could write about it, the Today Show's "expert's" comment on bullying is ridiculous.  I don't have kids, but I have noticed from once being a kid and from observing my friends' kids that an enormous amount of bullying takes place in places we think of as "safe" for children.  Schools are rampant with bullying, as are school bus stops, school buses, and playgrounds.  Should children not go to school lest they be bullied? 

There are many, many opportunities for kids to be bullied, and riding the subway alone is pretty low on the list.  The comment is a stretch to find something to criticize the mom over, and I think she needs to be called out on it.

Suzanne Reisman ( http://blogher.org/member/suzanne ), Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender ( http://blogher.org/topic/feminism-gender )
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When I was nine I certainly walked to and from school by myself.  That kid in New York has obviously ridden the subway and probably didn't even need the map.  Kids can be kidnapped while with their parents just as easily as when they're alone.  The fact that he was allowed to get home on his own probably boosted his confidence which is something most kids could use. 

Cheers!

JenWhy

I grew up in Edinburgh, Scotland.  I took public transit across the city since I was 6 to and from school.  Many kids did.

It is not New York, but kids did this stuff all the time everywhere.

Then we all got worried.  Then the 'world' changed or something and now we are horrified when someone isn't helicoptering or something.

I mean yes..the world is scary and can be dangerous..but how much of it is just a shift in our perceptions or view of what us and our children are capable of and what SOME kids have to do out of necessity or lack of mini vans or parents who can pick up and drop off kids everywhere.

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Hat tip to Jill Miller Zimon for pointing me to the "bad mother" in question, who has blogged about why she let her kid ride the subway alone here ( http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/2008/04/06/why-... ).

Gotta say i do like her blog name: Free Range Kids

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.com

Like Kim I was raised in a place that had trolley cars, elevated buses, trains and subways. Most of the kids in cities come from working parents who job demand that they be at work at a certain time.

Many kids had to lockup the house before they went to school. Yes, as young as 8 or 9 years of age.

In reality, by the time you were 7 years old you had been on a bus, trolley or train dozens of times with your parents. You learned the route and the people to watch out for. There are safer times to ride, like the daytime more so than at night.

Now to me 7 years old is too young to ride by yourself, especially if this is a quiet or physically small child. Age 9 is just about right.

You always had (and have) someone looking out for you. An older lady asking herself why is this child on the bus. The driver, other parents. We are not as savage as the media wants to make people in NY and other major cities.

It does depend on the age and the maturity of the child. The environment is a strong factor. But for many latch key children there is no choice. This is a reality that is incorporated into day to day life. It is developing life and survival skills.

Want it different? Improve flexible working hours for parents or provide transportation for children of working parents.

I also want to add that you want children to know alternative ways of getting home. You want them to know that they can catch a certain bus from school if they don't feel safe walking home. Even more important the "Safe Harbors" like Fire stations and and other similar places.

Bottom line, know your kid. Make it as safe a possible. Begin the process of teaching them to be transportation independent and safe.

Gena - Out On The Stoop ( http://outonthestoop.blogspot.com )

I love NYC but I think allowing a 9 yr old to ride a subway is just plain stupid. He is NINE  PEOPLE ! Lets forget about the horror situations in the news that are  sensatioalized. I will agree - these are rare and should not control our lives.  But NINE is too young.  Kids this age are easily distracted and forgetful.  Asimple mistake of getting off at the wrong stop could be scary for kid and Mom. Boys in particular like to play rough and run everywhere they go. A simple fall or collision with a stranger (non kid friendly) could cause trouble and frighten the kid. There are four more years before hes a teen (when he won't listen to a word you say any more) for teaching safety and letting him mature and easing him into this kind of responsiblity.  

  Candeelady

Raising Tween Girls - Tough & Fun -my blog ( http://www.gogogluegunfun.com ) 

 I cannot even imagine letting a fourteen yr old on a subway, let alone a 9 yr old. Unfortuneltly there are too many bad things out there that can happen. Call me a over protective mother, but I'd rather know my child is safe and sound.

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I've written about this before - the role of fear - conjured or real.  Fear is an incredibly powerful motivator of so many things -  bravery and being timid.  i've been particularly observant in this election year in the way political candidates use fear to influence how we feel we are threatedned and who will keep us safest.

So I feel that in some ways, the media and law enforcement and other elements do the same to parents.

I think we have to be very very careful in assessing the actual risks versus the alleged risks.

On a side note but related, a group of women have been talking about how the media and others creating a sense of fear for women who reaveal too much in social networking and could be endangering themselves, when in fact that also ends up giving men an advantage in networking. The real question is: what is the REAL risk, not just the PERCEIVED risk.

Just something to think about when thinking about whether we encourage taking a risk or not.

Jill
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I think kids do need a deal of independence but they also need to have the skills to help look after themselves - like being able to read a situation and other people, know how to defend themselves so they can make time to run, what to say loudly to get themselves help quickly and of course, how to talk through scary and painful things later.

I had a deal of freedom as a kid, especially from age 12 with traveling across the city to visit my older sister 20 miles away. I didn't have all these skills and I did come across vile people who wanted to steal innocence. Fortunately these things happened on the street and was able to simply get away.

Personally I'm thankful I had my freedom but I look back now and am amazed I got away without being harmed. I want my children to have the same sort of freedom but for them to have marital art skills to give them better chances.

My country cousin was a very different personality to me and if she had been in the same situations she could have been harmed simply because she didn't have a fighting voice within her as a child. That voice for her is coming out now in her adult years and it is great to see but she was just lucky that nothing happened in her childhood because she wouldn't have had a good chance of getting away first.

So it is also about different personalities.

For me it is about finding the balance between giving children the skills to look after themselves as best as possible as well as having their independence and freedom.

I wish for all of us, children and adults, to have a safe and free time. :)

Best wishes,

Belinda

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 then, when i was 8, i walked to school with my 6 year old sister.  and when I was 10, my next sister came as well.

it wasn't very long (about a mile) but we could make that walk last for ever.  and in the afternoon, walking UP the hill in the hottest part of summer, took even longer.  we got swooped by magpies, ate mulberries from overhanging trees, waged war against the older boys who swore at us...

it was the mid-80's and for us it was normal.  there were kids in my class that caught the bus, or the train, by themselves.  or cycled on the road.

I really am not one to judge another womans circumstances

Problem is the story reads like she let the boy ride alone so that she could write in her column about it

Now i am sure this is not the case but that's just how the story shouts at at me

But more generally, different people have different circumstances. We are all concerned with the safety of our kids and no sane mother would deliberately put her child in harms way

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But like anything else I was trying to teach my child, I'd certainly make sure they knew exactly what they were doing and had the resources to contact help.  

 My mom worked when I was a kid and so I had to learn to navigate the public transportation system at age 7 if I wanted to keep taking ballet and swimming lessons, which I did.  There was only one time where things went wrong -- street construction moved the bus route up a block and I had no idea what to do...I had strict instructions on where to wait and where to board from Mom.  I was pretty hysterical until a nice lady showed me where the stop moved to.  

 If I'd had a way to call home or call Mom, I wouldn't have been.  I don't recommend putting 7-year olds on busses, but the right 9-year old? Sure.  I'm not a believer in shielding them from everything, and it's an ongoing battle with my overprotective husband, who would wrap them in a bubble if possible.

karoli (odd time signatures ( http://drumsnwhistles.com ))

You wrote:

I think this fear, real or exaggerated, has greatly contributed to the
demands and stress level of parenting and it has stunted the maturity
of most kids.

I completely agree.

The Etan Patz case involved a 6-year-old, by the way, lest anyone skim the comments and equate the two.

Again, I honestly have no idea if this is beyond the bounds of safety or not, letting this kid ride the subway alone. I do know that we sometimes tease my mom about comments like "none of you wore helmets when you biked as kids, and you were just fine!" My standard rejoinder is "Sure, except for those of us who ended up with traumatic head injuries."

The problem is, wearing a helmet (nowadays) doesn't actually STOP the kid from enjoying a bike ride. It's extra protection without taking away access to the activity. I, too, worry that we've become to "safety" minded that kids are too restricted in what they can experience. And I worry that there's no good yardstick for measuring where the line ought to be.

Something horrible could always happen. On the subway or in your own living room. Our job is to protect without stifling. So how do we do that? 

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

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Izzy's experience is reminiscent of the self-reliance of yesteryear.

 Today, I do see young children riding the subway in Boston, but they are usually in groups.  I also see a difference in what city parents will allow that suburban parents would never.

I was a kid in NJ when the story of Etan Patz ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etan_Patz ) changed everything about how children were raised. There was so much publicity given to this story as well as subsequent incidents that we have gotten to the point where children can't play in their own backyards unsupervised. It's kind of sad, really.

I think this fear, real or exaggerated, has greatly contributed to the demands and stress level of parenting and it has stunted the maturity of most kids.

 -Lisse

@ Home in the World ( http://homeintheworld.typepad.com )

I grew up in Philly and started taking public transit to school at nine. Wasn't allowed to ride the subway until I was 12. At that time, I was also allowed to go in town with a friend who was also 12.

It was the late 60s and it wasn't New York. When I navigated their transit system for the first time at 18, I was awestruck. How was it possible that you could ride a train for an hour and still be in the Bronx?

In 1981 as a grad student at NYU, I worked and lived with high school students from all over the city as part of a special program for aspiring journalists. By 16, several of them had been all over the city, at all hours of the day and night. Several of them thought nothing of sneaking out of the dorm in the middle of the night to chat up the performers on Washington Square. I chased away boyfriends in their 20s, who showed up at 2 am, and had to forcefully tell several of them that yes, I would tell servers at restaurants that they were underage. They weren't bad kids, and they had caring parents. But their parents were no match for the easy access to all the lures that the city provided. 

Fortunately, from what i hear, they grew up to be healthy, productive adults. Ironically, I don't know of any of them who chose to raise kids in New York.   

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor ( http://blogher.org/blog/kim-pearson )|Professor Kim ( http://professorkim.blogspot.com/ )|

My mother had to be at work more than an hour before I had to leave the house for school and got home about an hour after I did. I had to get myself off to school in the morning - ON TIME because we lived in the country and there was no walking to school - and let myself in at night. 

Sometimes giving kids independence is just simply a necessity of life. Had we lived in a city you bet your butt I still would have been getting myself to school.  

Last I checked I turned out relatively normal.  

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This is an interesting question. My kids took the 104 bus down Broadway to school from 4th grade on. It was scary at first but my husband, who never liked living in NYC, said "Your're the one who wants to live here. If we're raising city kids, they should be city kids!"  And they were.

It was the 80's and there were many many homeless people on the streets so at first it was a bit unsettling for them but I think it made them braver and more worldly.  In fact, once, second son got off the bus at 79th St. and a homeless guy came up to him...  About 5 people tried to "rescue" him  when he said "Hey, he's my friend!"  He'd been buying the guy bagels for weeks, it turned out.  Go figure..

When it got really scary was when kid #1 moved to the   upper school in Riverdale and had to take the #1 train uptown. He was robbed more than once and it really pissed him off. When he got to college in the country, he said to me "the only think that can mug me here is the deer." so I guess it left negative vibes too.

I agree with KellyMac though - it's the kid that makes the difference. Some can manage; some need more time. Anyway it's great to raise NYC kids and I miss the city every day.

Cynthia Samuels, Partner
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Blog and Media Strategies and Content Development Online and on Television
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I have daughters and I would like to think that I would let my kid ride home if that was our home area. Here in St.Louis we have a budding train system and If my kid was ten I would let her ride from home to the mall I think or vice versa - I know lots of people who drop their kids off at a station and pick them up there at a certain time.

my three year old thinks shes thirty so I'm sure I'll be getting the independent requests sooner than I would like to think.

I think the lady is right people are outrages becuase of what they assume New York is like verses what it really is like.

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I don't know if using a nine year old to make your point is a wise idea. I don't live in New York but I do know it is a far cry to compare it to middle America- New York, and I hear alot of New Yorkers say this, is it's own little world. I am sure if you live it everyday that is one thing.   We have to remember as moms that "what-if" is there for a reason and we should NOT dismiss it because we don't want to "baby" our kids.  There is a happy medium between sending your 9 year old on the subway and keeping them under lock and key.

but I think the issue here is the kid. There are things I would have let my daughter do at 9 that I never would have let my son do at that age. Different kids can handle different things.

However, I don't think I would have let either one of them ride the city bus alone at age 9 (no subways here heh). If I recall correctly, I barely let them walk alone to the neighbor's at that age, although I was more relaxed with the second than the first.

No way would I let a nine year old ride the subway alone. Yes, New York is safer than it used to be, yes I feel safer in New York than I used to, yes, many a New Yorker would intercede to help a nine year old in trouble, but so many things could happen very quickly before someone could jump in and help.

I understand this Mom's point about many parents over protecting their children. I totally agree with her. Too many parents are almost trying to breathe for their children instead of gradually allowing them the freedom to make mistakes and develop into self sufficient young people. But that doesn't mean you go to the other extreme to prove a point.

There are too many situations on the subway, crowding, homeless crazies, teen bullies, that a nine year old is not yet equipped to handle.

Megan
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