Are We Raising Whiners or Winners?

I agree with you, as would David Walsh, Ph.D., author of No! Why Kids--of All Ages--Need to Hear It and Ways Parents Can Say It. Walsh's point is that in today's "yes culture" we're not helping children develop true self-esteem, which involves kids facing failure too in all of life's ups and downs, by just praising them for whatever big or little accomplishment so that they "feel good."

http://www.amazon.com/dp/074328920X?tag=quizzicalm... ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/074328920X?tag=quizzicalm... )

I agree with you, as would David Walsh, Ph.D., author of No! Why Kids--of All Ages--Need to Hear It and Ways Parents Can Say It. Walsh's point is that in today's "yes culture" we're not helping children develop true self-esteem, which involves kids facing failure too in all of life's ups and downs, by just praising them for whatever big or little accomplishment so that they "feel good."

http://www.amazon.com/dp/074328920X?tag=quizzicalm... ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/074328920X?tag=quizzicalm... )

Frankly, the issue is silly. Kids get participation trophies for playing on a youth team. They cost five or six dollars and the kids think they are neat. Big deal. I'm closing in on 50 and I got participation trophies when I played little league back in the 60s and early 70s. My father who is 80 this year got participation ribbons when he was kid. Somehow we survived.

Youth sports have undergone a revolution over the last 15 years or so. And, like most revolutions, there are good and bad aspects. Some things are very clear: (A) girls' competitive sports have exploded over that time period. (B) Club and travel programs have grown from being limited to hockey and AAU boys basketball, to being the most competitive level of every youth sport excluding football; (C) coaching and training has improved and will continue to improve; and (D) youth sports have stratified themselves so that kids and parents can find an appropriate level of play.

As your son gets older and you want him to become involved in youth sports start with, and stick to, the very basic principle that it has to be fun. Winning can be fun, but it is not nearly as much fun as playing whether you win or lose. And, getting a trophy at the end of the season can be fun too. As kids get older, you will need to learn about the youth sports available in your area and how they might fit for your child and your family. It's a learning process, and you will make mistakes, but it also is a blast. Rest assured though that youth sports are far more competitive today than they were even 10 years ago.

Kids need to learn that losing is ok too, and its unfair to the children who try their hardest to win a trophy when everyone else gets one too just because it is "fair". Thatd be like me working my ass off to get a 4.0 gpa and other students getting the same grade even if they didnt try because it was "fair". Rewarding for everything will come back and bite you in the rump..kids need to learn that hardwork and dedication brings rewards, not just showing up as another user commented.

This has been going on for some time. The old "slaughter rule" (the name was changed to "mercy rule" cuz it sounds better) used to allow kids to play but the goals don't count (soccer) or baseball just called the game off after the point differential got to a certain level. I heard about this new system and I just can't believe that they are doing this. We're not just talking about 3-4-5 year old who are more interested in chasing the butterflies than the game, this is also in effect for the 17 year old teams! A 17 year old who doesn't know how to loose??? Come on!?!?
This is really more for the parents than it is for the kids. parents who can't accept that their kid may not be the "best" athlete, or the "best" in school. Not everyone is an athlete, not everyone is straight A student...maybe they will excel in other areas (art, music, carpentry)...Maybe your kid is just mediocre, and that's fine...they should learn to play, win AND lose, work as a team, win/fail as an individual, etc.
We are raising a nation of entitled whiney kids...

While parents who support "everyone is a winner" have the best intentions, they are mainly thinking about Right Now. When their children are little, but there is a time when our kids need increased responsibility, and this includes being able to experience the agony of defeat. Experiencing disappointment is a part of life, sure we'd all love to keep our children in a bubble and not have them be upset, but it's not realistic, nor is it particularly good for them. Negative emotions are big emotions, and if our kids aren't being given the opportunity to experience them in age appropriate ways and grow into them,when they finally are permitted to feel them, it will be overwhelming for them.

But look down the road a bit. I have several friends who work in HR at some impressive companies, places any of us would be happy to employ our children when they are grown ups looking for work. You know what they say about these kids who didn't get to "lose?" They are "entitled" and have skewed ideas about work responsibilities. I'll give you an example. One of my friends was interviewing a potential job candidate and when he reviewed the job responsibilities the applicant asked, "Would I be the only one doing that? What about everyone else?" That's right, he thought it was "unfair" that his job had different responsibilities than those of his co-workers and actually was offended he was being asked to do something "all by himself that no one else had to do." And he said it in the interview!

We are doing our kids no favors by disallowing competition and loss. As long as it is being done in an age appropriate way, which I believe it has for many years, it's okay if our kids learn life isn't fair. Besides, wouldn't you like them to learn this at home where they are surrounded by people who love them and will help them work through their disappointment, anger, frustration, and sadness? Because if they get out in the real world at 18 and complain "That's not fair!" No one is really going to give a shit and they will be told "Life's not fair." I say better to learn it's not fair at home first, where you have support and can learn how to deal with it, as well as have a safety net.

Devra Renner

@ParentopiaDevra on Twitter

Contributing Editor, Family Connections

I also write at: Parentopia ( http://www.parentopia.com/blog ), Draft Day Suit ( http://www.draftdaysuit.com ),

I agree with you 100%. It is worthy of repeating - "nothing beats a failure but a try" My mother would not let me give up because something was difficult and let me know I wouldn't always be successful. But as long as I gave it my best shot, she couldn't ask for anything more.

Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

Most of us blog because we love it, not because we are going to get something tangible in return! :-)
Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

I think it's a fine line and does depend on children's ages. I think so much can be learned from playing games--and not just sports. There are board games you can play as young as 3 yrs old. I think it's a wise idea to never put a child in a position where they are always failing or always winning. It's hard to lose and it doesn't matter if you've done it a thousand times. It always stinks. But you do have to learn how to do it.

I once told a prek teacher, when she talked about playing board games in class, that games were good because they helped a child learn how to lose. She gasped and said, "Oh no.. no one loses here.. we all win together." I found that ridiculous. I don't want my child to lose--ever. I want him/her to feel victorious every single day--but that doesn't always happen and the best thing you can learn from occasionally losing is that maybe next time you'll be the winner.

Life is full of disappointments. By protecting our kids from them, we're setting them up to be sledgehammered by the real world.
Their first afterschool-job supervisors, their first college professors, their first real employers -- none of these folks are going to hold their hands and make sure everything's OK.

You nailed it Kristina. What happened to doing something because you love it not because you get an award for it?

Lisen
www.prismwork.com ( http://www.prismwork.com )

I often wonder at what is trying to be achieved by the "everyone's a winner" mentality. Parent's seem to be scared to let their kids lose, or scrape a knee or well pretty much anything that may be construed as negative and in the process are doing a disservice to the kids they are supposed to love. Our job as a parent is to prepare our kids for life when they leave the nest. To set them up with the skills to deal with the real world.

If you have never faced an obstacle as a child how do you deal with it as an adult?

I have 2 boys, 12 and 15, and we have raised them on an effort versus achievement basis. By that I mean the amount of effort you put in is more important than if you win or lose per say. If you put in all your effort and still lose that's okay. There will always be someone faster or smarter, that's life, you have to learn to live with it. Sometimes it sucks and that's okay. Sometimes you win and that's okay to. In many respects you learn more about yourself and life from losing. Constantly challenging yourself to be better rather than measuring yourself against others and needing a participation trophy as consolation when things don't go your way.

My eldest is in a football team that hasn't won a game in 4 years yet every week he is determined to go to training and works on his fitness at home. That experience alone has taught him much about life and he is now captain of the team and a leader at the club. My youngest didn't make the school rep volleyball team, yet goes to training each week determined to get his skills up to try and make the team next semester. In both cases other kids in the same position dropped out, or in my eldest's case moved to a more successful club. The determination and effort both my boys put in makes me more proud than any trophy could and teaches them that they have to work for things they want and to persevere when life doesn't go their way.

I'm not saying it's not hard (though they excel in other areas) and we've had the tears and hugs and the like, but as a parent part of your job is to teach them the skills to handle the hard stuff or you are just setting them up for failure.

Michelle Roger writes for Living With Bob (Dysautonomia) ( http://bobisdysautonomia.blogspot.com/ )

Listen, seriously, I am probably going to sound really mean but if my daughter played a sport and wasn't very good at it (even if she did try) I would be ANNOYED if she were given a trophy for "trying really hard". I am so sick of the idea that kids need to be rewarded for EVERYTHING. How about teaching them to give 100% because they enjoy it and not because they are going to get something in return? And how about teaching them that for everything that they may not be good at there will be just as many things at which they will excel?

Yes, teach young kids skill and help them develop self-esteem. But creating a generation of entitled losers just adds to the number of people trying out for American Idol when they truly cannot sing.
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Kristina Brooke aka Mom on the Rise
( http://momontherise.com )

Email: kristina {AT} kristinabrooke {DOT} org

Gtalk: momontherise@gmail.com

Twitter: @momontherise

I was shooting a Legion (star players, high school, summer league) game the other night. One of the assistant coaches was explaining how he refuses to coach Little League or Babe Ruth anymore and not because of the kids. It's the parents. It scared me. My friend just started her son in Little League this year (a few years older than my sons) and she's said that some of the parents are RIDICULOUS.

I am so very glad that I was raised with respectful but still sports-minded parents who taught me the importance of good sportsmanship not just with words before the game but with their actions during.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

You've hit the nail on the head! It is all about the parents. Parents are behind this ruling and parents are the ones corrupting children.
Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

I've actually never heard of a "mercy" rule before. And I do think that young children don't need to be concerned about scores should be learning how to play the game.

I'd love to hear more about parents and Little League, I've seen some news stories about parents getting out of hand. Does that happen on a regular basis?
Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

I love your perspective. I think that your daughter should certainly be rewarded for her skills, not everyone is an A student but does that mean teachers no longer give A's?

I also agree that you son is learning about perseverance and perhaps his skills will improve during team practices.

Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

I think that young children do need to learn to play before actually competing. At the age of 4 or 5 they should be learning the skills need to play sports. I think that games with young children shouldn't even count the points because the children are more interested in running around the field than winning or losing.
Cutie Booty Cakes ( http://cutiebootycakes.blogspot.com/ )

I absolutely abhor the participation trophy! You get trophies because you won something, not because you showed up. I think a big problem with our society right now is this idea that we have to be fair. Nope, life is winning and losing. There are kids who are brains, kids who struggle. There are kids who are athletes, kids who struggle.

I believe it's all for the benefit of the parents anyway. Parents are corrupting childhood with these ideas. Parents are done with childhood. We came out the other side and we're all ok (maybe with a few scars!). Parents need to stop and desist.

Susie Kline

www.motherhoot.com ( http://www.motherhoot.com )

I have one child who excels at soccer. She is the one that always wins MVP or coaches awards. Recently, a number of parents complained because they felt their children (who do not play as well but who certainly do try as hard) were not getting the attention they deserved. Now the MVP and Coaches awards are given on the sly so my daughter gets the award but no one else knows on the theory that no one else is upset. This does not seem to be a very productive solution.

Alternatively, my son is one of those players who tries hard but is not the best on the baseball team. His is smaller and not as skilled as his mostly older teammates. He rarely gets put in because the coach wants to win. Now, his skills are falling behind his peers.
If, in fact, it is true that excellence comes from practice, my son will never be an excellent baseball player because he never gets to play. Do I complain to his coach and tell him to let the team lose once in a while so my son's skills will improve? Not sure that is optimal either.

In the end, I believe a society that is bent on rewarding mediocrity is destined to be mediocre. Not sure my son will ever be very good at baseball but he is certainly learning the lesson of perseverance.

Lisen
www.prismwork.com ( http://www.prismwork.com )

There's been a mercy rule for as long as I have participated in sports. Our softball teams weren't allowed to win by more than 10 points. (Note: summer league softball, not high school - that was a blood bath scoring match, don't you worry.)

There's no score kept in the youngest ages of t-ball and soccer in our area (which, by the way, DO start at three). The horror stories I've heard from score-keeping Little League, however, make me want to not allow my children to participate. If the parents would behave, it would be one thing. Losing is fine. Losing while being yelled at by rabid parents is another thing entirely.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

I think the point of the trophy for all players is in recognition of doing your best, which is also an important aspect of team sports, whether you win or lose. I think it's taken too far sometimes on both sides. Some parents are too competitive, ruining the fun of the sport, but it's also important to learn how to win - and lose - with grace. Forcing a team to hang around on the field rather than score another goal seems counter-productive to me. The other team KNOWS that they are outmatched, regardless of the final score. That said, I am dead-set-against any sort of pressure to win or lose on my 4 year old son. I want him to learn how to enjoy playing a game and following rules before he has to compete. Kids lose that freedom far too early, if you ask me (and it has nothing to do with self-esteem, and everything to do with FUN).

Where is the balance?

Christy

@morethanmommy