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Hi, I'm Karen Ballum, but I'm better know around the web as Sassymonkey. I live in Ottawa, Ontario -- Canada's national capital. (No, I do not li...

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How Would You Define Yourself Without Work?

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One of the things that struck me as I was reading Slow Love is how rudderless Dominique Browning was without work. She, like many of us, was defined by the work she did. Without that work, she asked, who was she?

"What did define me was the plain old simple act of working. The loss of my job triggered a cascade of self-doubt and depression. I felt like a failure." p. 12

It's something I've thought about before. When I moved to the city where I now live, I moved because of a guy. (I know... I kind of groan when I think of it that way too.) We had decided to live together and while he wasn't opposed to living in my city, facts were facts and the facts said that employment opportunities were better in his city than mine. Whether this thing between us worked out or not (it has!), from a financial and future employment perspective it was the smarter move.

When I landed in this city I was doing part-time freelance work. I had quit my full-time job some months before. I continued to look for work and did, eventually, pick up a part-time office job that meshed well with my freelance work. It was also during this time I was meeting the people, both on my own and through that guy I moved for, the question of what I did was a bit... awkward. I didn't have a proper title and despite the fact that I probably worked more hours than they did in a week the fact that I didn't have a full-time job seemed to offend some people. It was not a positive experience.

no one

Image Credit: Linzi Clark

I once read somewhere, and heaven knows if it's true, in France asking a new acquaintance what they do for living is considered to be very rude. I remembered it because it made me wonder how people navigate those early discussions. Often when I've been in a group of people I don't know one of the first things I'm asked is what I do. I'll confess I ask it myself. But what it we couldn't do that?

Think about it. No Jane is a lawyer or Mary is a stay at home mother. Think about how that conversation would go. It's hard, isn't it?

How would you describe yourself or introduce yourself to someone if you couldn't say what you do? Who are you without your title?

BlogHer Book Club Host Karen Ballum also blogs at Sassymonkey and Sassymonkey Reads.

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crunchyvtmommy 8 pts

What a thought provoking question. I have wrestled with this issue for almost a year since I resigned from my full time occupation to stay at home with my children. I am finally at a place where I feel comfortable just being me and not needing my work to define me. I am still trying to adjust and build a work at home career but it no longer bothers me to "just be a mom". if that makes sense.

bourriquet76 5 pts

I was thinking about this last night. Since we moved, my kids started school and my husband has been busy with work. All of a sudden, I have a lot of time on my hands and I'm not sure quite what to do with myself.

Before my oldest was born, I taught middle school, then spent the next years wrapped up in being her mom, then my son's mom. This week marks the first time since 2002 that I've actually not had someone home with me, and it's odd; it's time to find myself again, I suppose. I actually have time for the writing and projects I want to do, but it still seems unusual not to have someone yelling "Mommy!" all day long.

ramblingsofalovesickmommy 5 pts

i am a stay at home mom, and i know that's how i introduce myself ;)

our identities are so wrapped up in knowing that we are needed by what we do, so it's like we don't know who we are without our jobs (whether or not they are PAID jobs or mom jobs like mine)

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

ramblingsofalovesickmommy What we do is what we do, whether we are paid for it or not. :)

Kathy Benson 6 pts

Very interesting post and questions Karen! It is so common in our culture to define ourselves by "what we do." I am not sure how I would introduce and/or describe myself without including titles and how I spend much of my time. Hmm... Definitely something to chew on.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

I've been chewing on it for awhile. I am struggling a little bit less with how I would answer it but having a lot more trouble with what I'd ask someone I just met in lieu of that question.

Original Diva 7 pts

You know what's funny....I went without a job for 2.5 years and I still don't know how to define myself.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

Original Diva Based on this discussion, I think may of us struggle with it -- with or without a job.

EmSun 10 pts

I have not yet figured out how I define myself. I hate that I need to define myself or proffer any sort of explanation to anyone. They should learn who I am over time and figure it out that way. Maybe I should move to France.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

EmSun They do have excellent pastries in France. I've considered moving there for those alone. ;-)

Tiffany K 5 pts

I struggled with this for years after I no longer worked with animals. My work defined me. Since then I've had not-so-glamourous ordinary jobs, so it's been easierto steer the conversation away from my work and more on my passions such as travel, writing, and of course animals.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

@Tiffany K sometimes the not so glamourous jobs let us focus more of our energy on the things we're passionate outside work. I hope that's the case for you. :)

HonestAndTruly 6 pts

I so get this because I've been there. I've had the career where I'm gone all week and don't see or talk to people because I'm constantly at work. I went from 100 mph to zero staying at home, and it was a really rough transition. Not only did I not know what to do with myself, I didn't know how to define myself - and in some ways I'm still struggling with that, which shows when I take too much on.

That said, yes yes YES we are so much more htan our jobs, especially when they are just jobs and not true careers!

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

HonestAndTruly I've done it too. On one hand it was a relief but on the other... it really is a rough transition. I spent the first few weeks in my pjs staring at the Food Network and watching DVDs. I didn't know what else to do.

Diana 8 pts

I think this is very much a class issue as well. Having grown up in a lower-middle class household and, thus, around mostly lower-middle class adults it was not common. There is a divide between those who choose what they do for a living because it relates to who they are and those who do what they do for a living because it puts food on the table and a roof over heads. In some ways I think this is why we all feel so uncomfortable when we can't easily define what we do -- it's an indication of lower class status -- and why we all place so much value on what people do even when they can easily label themselves, it gives us an indication of their success and stability.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

Diana Excellent point. Really, really excellent point.

ProjectGadabout 5 pts

I feel like defining yourself by work isn't really the problem. I feel like the lack of anything to do is the problem. Browning went from days that filled to the brim, to an abundance of free time. With that much free time, comes the chance to really look at yourself and the life you lead. I think that can be hard, because your mind start going through your shoulda, woulda, coulda list. I friend that always says she's, "to busy to over think her life." Browning wasn't to busy.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

ProjectGadabout That is a good point. Maybe is was more about structure than definition?

mrs07c 5 pts

I grew up with work defining my family, my father was one who always put work (and his dream of having his own buisness) first. I knew I would never put a job before my family, as a teen I made sure I was always off sundays and mondays to be with family; as I became and "adult" I kept Sundays off and made sure ot keep nights off during the week for family. When my daughter was born I took the maternity leave my compnay generasouly gave me and then took adv of extra (non paid) time to be with my daughter, my husband also took 4 weeks of time off (which he has saved up). When we were notified my husband would be laid off we changed our plans, our budget, and our spending, and other than a mini anxiety attack (on my part) we've made due and will; for us time is worth more than money; we will never have the most expensive anything; but we will always have each other!

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

mrs07c I have to confess that I always hated working on Sundays. I still do. Sundays might be my favorite day of the week -- I feel like I have permission to do things slower and sometimes bigger (like a big Sunday dinner).

Not Like a Cat 5 pts

I've thought and written about and struggled with this for a long time, because when my firstborn son was 7 months old, I was laid off. So everyone thought, "Oh, yeah, you're a stay-at-home mom" when in fact I was a laid-off managing editor! But because of my infant, I joined the ranks of the invisible SAHMs--people didn't even ASK what I did, once they knew I was a mom, as if changing diapers must be my whole life and aspiration.

I've been freelancing since then, but my career since the layoff has been a bit spotty. I'm not sure what I am. I rebel against the SAHM/housewife label, but am I editing enough to be an editor? Am I a writer if I'm not getting published?

So, I haven't had a title in almost 3 years, really, except for "frustrated stay-at-home-mom-not-by-choice and sometime part-time freelance editor and writer." But I also mention I'm training for a marathon, like to mountain bike, recently went camping, have interest in the locavore movement, etc.

If we could ban the question "So what do you do [for a living]?" as small talk/icebreaker, that would be great. What do they ask instead, in France?

@

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

Not Like a Cat Do you think that you rail against the SAHM label because it wasn't really one you chose, but that due to circumstances was chosen for you?

Not Like a Cat 5 pts

I'm not sure. In great part, yes, but also because I knew that SAHMs are kind of invisible--socially, economically, etc. They don't get sick days, they don't get retirement benefits, they don't get mandated breaks in their workdays....It's funny. I was about to quit my job right before I was laid off, because my infant son was so desperately unhappy in his daycare situation, and it was all very stressful. But I still didn't think, "Oh, I want to be a SAHM!" That's not how I ever wanted to define myself. sassymonkey

lra0403 6 pts

I know how the loss of a job can be, at best, unsettling. And if you're looking for a job and not finding one, the discomfort increases. So if you are having to work, then your work does seem to define you...and your lack of it, when you need to be working, seems to define a lacking of who you are.

Without work, I would define myself as the entrepreneurial artist and/or artisan that I would be if I didn't have to work. I've never been a "career-driven" person. I've never felt that having a career was the be all, end all of existence. I've worked hard for some 25 years now, but my jobs and career are not what I consider to be the definition of me. I have been fortunate to have intervals in which I didn't work for someone else, and during which I defined myself as a mom, as an assistant in my husband's construction business, and as an entrepreneur with my own pet-sitting service. I felt more comfortable answering the "what do you do" question during those times than I have been when I had an actual "job" working for someone else. To me, it is more important to define myself as someone meeting my own interests, rather than someone that is holding a position in someone else's interest. Does that make sense?

And my statements are certainly not meant to belittle the careers of those who want their careers. If that is their passion, or if it is what they have to do as a means to an end, then great for them. I think the key is to be able to answer the question of "what do you do" in a confident manner. Do we care what a new acquaintance thinks of what we do if we are doing the thing(s) that we are passionate about? I guarantee you this, any judgement they make about your answer is probably more about the way you answer the question, than what your answer actually was. If freelancing and part-timing satisfies you, then admit it confidently. If being a mom, grandma, hobbyist gardener, or professional student is what makes you happy, then let it show. If your job fuels your passion, then "being the job" is a good thing. If your job does not do this for you, but you have to have it, then you can either claim it with confidence or accept it as a stop-gap until you *are* what you want to be defined as.

But above all, be confident in who or what you are when you are faced with this question. I think the French may be right in that it's a little rude to be so blunt in asking someone what they do. Spend some time with a person, get to know them a bit, and who they are will reveal itself naturally.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

lra0403 ". To me, it is more important to define myself as someone meeting my own interests, rather than someone that is holding a position in someone else's interest. Does that make sense?" It does. :)

24inmymind 8 pts

I was compelled by your title and question. As I'm sitting here pondering the question, I can completely agree that it's really hard to think of what else I "am" that would be worthwhile in mentioning in an introduction to a stranger. I truly don't know. The first thing that comes to mind is my most rewarding role in life right now and that's "grandma" to my 5 grandkids. But, here's probably the most telling part of my thought process here and that's this: I don't think people that I would meet would be interested or "impressed" that I'm a grandma. Society doesn't really value that sort of role, wouldn't you agree? Therein, I think, lies the real insight. If it's not about money, nobody cares.

Thanks for your post.

Allie

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

24inmymind Hmmm I don't know that no one cares... I do think in our society that jobs are more valued than relationships upon initial introductions. That said, some would care very much that you are a grandma. Flip side, there are probably careers that people have that are of less interest to you. We just don't know which way it will go when you meet someone.

LucyLuPop 6 pts

I am one of those people who desperately tries not to define myself by my job. It would drive me crazy if I did.

I spent some time in France and its true that they never ask what you do on first meeting, and its sooooo refreshing! Its something we should all try.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

LucyLuPop Since you have first hand experience and many of us are curious -- how do those introductions and initial conversations go without work being on the discussion table?

grace99 5 pts

I'm not a person with a bunch of degrees behind her name. I have spent most of my life in jobs where I serve others. I believe it is what I was meant to do on this earth. But for years I have this yearning to spill my guts in a story about a shy mid-western girl who has been searching all her life for love and acceptance. It's here in the back of my head, just waiting to be put on paper.

I owned and operated my own cafe in my small town in Iowa for 10 years. I started working in the local cafe when I was 12 years old, and worked for all but 2 of the owners over the years before I transformed a clothing store into my own place, and started my own business. My cafe was well known in the area and I had a successful business overall. I also was very active in my community, serving as president of the community club for many years. I even received an award from the governor for community betterment. I closed my cafe 7 years ago and now work as a Dietary Manager at a small nursing home. I love going to work everyday! It feels good to know that you make a difference in someones life everyday. We could learn a lot from the elderly, if we all would just slow down and take the time to listen to them. They are wise people.

How do I define myself without work? I have plenty of interests outside of my job. I love interior design. I love cooking and I am in the process of putting together a cookbook with a lot of recipes from my cafe The Norske Hus. That's Norwegian for house in case you are wondering. I am going to be 52 years old in a few months and as I get older I think what have I done with my life and what do I still want to do. Writing a book is one of them which may sound absolutely crazy, and maybe it will never materialize. Maybe it will be something my kids find when I'm dead, but at least I got it on paper and out of my head, if not for the whole world to see!!! It will satisfy me!!!!!

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

grace99 Not crazy at all. I know many, many people who want to write a book. Sometimes I feel like that odd one because I don't. ;)

kbojar 7 pts

I don't think Browning ever defined herself solely by her job. As she wrote:

All those inner resources that I have spent a lifetime developing have finally started kicking in again-those soul-saving habits of playfulness, most of all: reading, thinking, listening, being a friend, simply feeling my body move through the world, and finally, being open enough to notice the small beauty in every single day. The healing balm was there all along, nestled in a sofa that beckoned me to pick up a book, hovering outside the window inviting me to take a walk. It was just a matter of finding room in my life again for everything I love, and letting the quiet of solitary moments steal over my heart.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

kbojar Not by her job, specifically, but by *work*. Those things were what she did when she didn't work but working was the norm for her. It was what she did, who she was -- she was a worker. That doesn't mean she didn't find places to let her playfulness shine but that she struggled with not framing those within a normal structure or work time and then play time. Without that work time, what did she do?

MrsDragon 6 pts

<p>I always expected to define myself by my career. When I went through school, I defined myself by my major. But after working a few years and purchasing a house a funny thing happened. I found hobbies. Really great hobbies that I had time for again! And so my career was no longer&nbsp;sufficient&nbsp;to define me. Yes, I'm a mechanical engineer and I love it! But I'm also a blogger, a quilter, a cook, a burgeoning foodie, a&nbsp;restaurant&nbsp;critic, an&nbsp;amateur&nbsp;photographer. I love taking walks and hikes and soaking up the sunshine. I'm pursuing interests in learning more about both fashion and feminism. I've started painting my toenails on a semi-regular basis. I'm a reader and a cat person, a introverted people person. And when I look at all that, defining myself by my career (awesome as it is) simply seems too limiting.</p>

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

MrsDragon "And when I look at all that, defining myself by my career (awesome as it is) simply seems too limiting." I love that. :)

kristendom 5 pts

Well, since what I do for a living has always been difficult to explain (I work at a university, but I don't teach - I'm an administrator - see, just that little bit still doesn't even begin to explain it), I actually ENJOY conversations where that doesn't come up. I feel like my life outside of work is rich enough that I'm able to explain who I am fairly easily - I'm a mom, I'm a partner, I'm a blogger, I'm a reader, I'm a home-owner, etc. This may be why I just didn't get this book - when I was without work for six months, I almost NEVER got bored or frustrated. I took the time to read, to sit down and enjoy myself, to write, to cross-stitch, and I sometimes even miss those days. I work because it pays the bills, and I have managed to find something that I enjoy enough to do it 40+ hours a week, but if I lost my job tomorrow, I think (other than the bill paying part) that I'd be okay emotionally. Of course, ask me after I lose my job.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

kristendom I understand your job, but I know my fair share of university administrators. ;)

jackirenee 5 pts

kristendom

I often defined myself by my work, but I had to walk away from that position and now also work as an administrator at a university. And yes, it is hard to define, although I usually go with glorified babysitter. I don't enjoy my job in the least, so I refuse to now define myself by it. Having conversations with strangers that don't expect me to talk about my work, would be wonderful. I do hope one day to be proud of my work and want to discuss it, but I have come to realize that I am so much more than my job.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

jackirenee The comments on this post have really reinforced how much we focus on our work and jobs as a discussion point. I'm trying to figure out what I want to ask people the next time I meet someone new and it's surprisingly difficult.

TamiLC 5 pts

Totally understand where you're coming from. This is so tough for anyone who's been laid off. I've struggled with this myself after being laid off and written several posts about it at talesoftheterminated.com.

My quick answer is that I'm a marketing and PR consultant, a mentor and board member. Helps that I've figured out what to do with my "free time"!

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

TamiLC What do you do with your free time? :)

Torm 5 pts

I'm a stay at home mom, but I have a variety of stay at home jobs. One of the 'jobs' I do is photograph families, weddings, babies and seniors. I've never done this in any real depth, but more as a favor to friends and family. Recently, it has become more than I want to do. Call it old after 25 years, call it hard on the eyes as I now need bifocals to see anything with any real clarity. What I find though, is that it's a bit hard to let go of it completely. In a way it would be freeing, but in a way - it's part of who I am, it's part of what people know me for. So what am I then, without it. It becomes something I used to do, and now I must find something new to become. A bit daunting, but it can be exciting.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

Torm I think transition times are always a bit scary. They can be exciting, but just a wee bit scary at the same time. Don't you think?

kendalldog 7 pts

I don't know that I could define myself without my job. I'm one of those women who chose career over family. I'm happily married and "mom" to a house full of pets. I love my job. I get to interact with wonderful teachers all day and feel like I'm making a difference. I get a chance to use my science background every day, too. I'm proud of who I've become. Perhaps I have become my work.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

kendalldog I think there's a difference between becoming your work and being defined by it. It certainly sounds like you enjoy your work, which is nice. (And yay for science!) I think the question is, would you still be proud of who you've become if you weren't working?

kharris623 5 pts

How would I define myself without work? Happy! Not to trivialize other people's pain but come on, expand your world and your ego's.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

kharris623 Not everyone is happy without work. And it's really not about people's egos.

showmyface 5 pts

I've been dealing with this lately. Having left my job last November and being determined not to return to that industry, I finished a grad program in another area altogether but haven't started actually working yet. The limbo in-between is strange to navigate.

So what do I do? I'm a freelance marketer and a writer. I'm in the middle of a career change and taking on whatever looks interesting. And I'm not dreading M-F, 8-5 anymore.

Of course, that was all different for Dominique. Having a job you love ripped from you is nothing like deciding to leave a job you detest on your own terms.

sassymonkey 141 pts moderator

showmyface It's always easier to do things on your own terms. Yay to you for working on how to do that. :)

BigMama247 5 pts

Since I haven't worked outside of the home for a long time, this one is interesting for me. When I was a stay at home mom, I could at least point to my kids and say, there they are! That's what I'm doing!

Now that I'm writing, it almost feels harder. I have things that I absolutely must do to maintain trust from my clients, but when stuff is all done from home in my jammies and sometimes housework doesn't get done, it can seem almost like I'm not really doing anything, even if I'm really busy. And "writer" feels like one of those "fake" jobs, even though it's very real.