I don't usually write about politics, but I can't help myself. I just have to speak about what feels to me like a double standard when it comes to Sarah Palin. I'm surprised by the people who want equal rights for women so that they can do all the same things as men, yet now that Sarah Palin is the potential VP are all asking whether she can be a good mom and VP at the same time.
I suppose now every woman out there who runs a major corporation, who serves as a governor or a senator, who is a journalist traveling the world to cover stories, who is an entrepreneur running her own start-up, or who has any other job that requires hard work and enormous commitment should now question whether she can do a good job and be a good mother. What about Indra Nooyi, president and CEO of PepsiCo, who has two children? Stephanie Bell-Rose, Managing Director of Goldman-Sachs, who has three children? Ursula Burns, president of Xerox, who has two children? Anne Sweeney, president of Disney/ABC-TV, with two children? Susan Decker, president of Yahoo, with three children?
I have a dear friend who is VP of Marketing at a very large global corporation. She has huge responsibilities. She also has two small children. Her husband takes care of the kids. They have a wonderful family, are successfull all the way around, and have happy, healthy and smart children. The feminists would have screamed bloody murder if this friend had not been considered for her position because she had young children. BLOODY MURDER, I tell you.
Sarah Palin is different? No way. If you want to question her experience, that makes sense to me. If you want to look at her record and compare it to the opposing ticket, no problem. But this motherhood thing is insulting to her, me, countless hardworking women, AND, I might add, insulting to every man in America who is a competent and effective stay-at-home dad.
I submit that it's the quality of the time and effort that each individual mother puts in that matters. There are probably an equal number of stay-at-home moms and working moms who do a bad job of mothering, and an equal number who do a good job. It's not up to me or you to judge that. It's conversations like the one people are having right now on Palin's mothering abilities that put so much pressure on women to be "the perfect mother."
Comments
Mother's Role
I hear what you're saying, and this is something I've been thinking about as well. I don't know the answer, but I do have a question......at what point do we (as parents) step back and say "too much"?
My husband works 12 hour days, but when he is home he is attentive and wonderful with the kids, so I know a person can be both an employee and parent. At the same time, he was given an opportunity (better position/better pay) that would include long days and regular travel. He turned it down because he thought it would be too much time away from the family. He didn't want to miss the opportunity to see the kids grow up, assist in their parenting, help me stay sane, etc..
I can't speak for Palin, or for her family, but if I had 5 children (1 being a baby), and a pregnate daughter (who would need my support and does not need to be subjected to public scrutiny) I know what I would choose to do. I would pick my family first.
I don't think that makes me anti-feminist or weaker as a woman. I would expect my husband to do the same. I'm all for women "having it all", and I'd love to see more women in powerful positions. I think both parents need to keep in mind that parenting is a job too, and it is a commitment made by choice.
Patricia Wooster
www.projectorganiceating.com
www.lifeintheburb.com
www.projectgreengirl.com
It Takes a Village to Raise a Child
Thanks for your comment Patricia. I understand exactly what you are saying. What is the line, for BOTH fathers and mothers? I'm not sure people have ever asked or expected fathers to answer that question until this day and time, which I think it a good thing. Women have always struggled with it. How does one balance motherhood with their own sense of self and other achievements?
When I had my son, I was in marketing at The Coca-Cola Company. I loved my job and my work and planned on going back to work after maternity leave. My mother was NOT pleased. She couldn't imagine me choosing to work rather than stay home (note: I was fortunate enough to have the choice. Many women don't.) It was very difficult to feel as though I wasn't living up to her expectations and beliefs. But I felt then, and still feel now, very comfortable about the decision I made. And now, when she tells me how impressed she is at my mothering skills, and how happy and healthy my son is, it means A LOT.
As I said in the original post, I think every woman is different in terms of what she can handle, and what support she has around her to help in the raising of her children can make a big difference. Didn't Hilary Clinton write a book called "It Takes A Village"? If her husband is fully involved, if other loving family members are fully involved, and if she makes sure to have quality time with her kids, then I think she has just as much opportunity as anyone else to make a great impact on her children.
Katherine Stone
Tough dialogue ahead
Thank you for leading the way in writing about this topic - I choose not to write about politics, either, but this is a difficult subject.
I have to agree with Patricia's opening question, "At what point do we step back and say 'too much?'" This is exactly what I was struggling with. Bringing five children into the world is a decision. A big one. Those children have rights to be responsibly parented and I believe fulfilling those rights comes before any individual pursuit of success, power, etc.
This is where it gets murky for me, because I am a single mother with a professional career and full charge of my two daughters. I did not choose my particular profession, which is male-dominated, for personal fulfillment but because it paid well and i needed to provide for my children's present and future. Truthfully, I would have preferred to leave the breadwinning up to my ex-husband, but he did not seem to have it in him to provide for his family, so i did what needed to be done. I am fortunate that the women who went before me fought the fight to make it possible for me to do this, but it certainly does not always feel like a privilege. My ex-husband did not handle this arrangement well. He insinuated, successfully for a while, to MY circle of friends that I had chosen career over family. Our marriage did not survive.
I was very moved by Sarah Palin's speech last night - I don't have any qualms about her experience anymore. I do now believe she is qualified for the job. I believe she is interested in making a difference and not in pursuing power. But I still am struggling with the "should" part of the equation.
Does the US embrace equal rights?
I think that it honestly shows that most people in this country do not truly embrace equal rights for women. We really don't ask the same family questions about men. It is totally insulting to both men and women, implying that men are useless parents other than as breadwinners and women are bad parents if they work.
Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants
Amen, Suzanne. As I've
Amen, Suzanne. As I've said, people on the other side of the aisle may question her politics, where she lands on the issues, her experience, and more, and they should. We should all ask lots of questions of our candidates. But the mother question should be "out of the question" as far as I'm concerned.
Katherine Stone
It's worth noting, too, that
It's worth noting, too, that Todd Palin is (I believe) planning on being an at-home dad. That's pretty cool, in my book.
Cool to you, but a few of
Cool to you, but a few of your Republican colleagues on this site have sneered at Michelle Obama's decision to leave her job for her daughters while Barack is on the campaign trail. Then he heads back home for 3 day weekends to make sure he is there for his daughters.
This is what I'm having trouble wrapping my head around. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
Sorry, thlsralv, I don't mean to be heaping this upon you personally. It's just that your comment reminded me of those comments and my "WTF?" alarm has been going off non-stop since last Friday.
I agree with you miteegirl.
I agree with you miteegirl. Let's not question any of their parenting skills. More power to Michelle Obama for making whatever decision she felt was best for her family. More power to Joe Biden for choosing to commute home to his kids in Delaware. Let's leave them all alone when it comes to their kids.
Katherine Stone
Moms and working
How do you all respond then, to the events surrounding the birth of her last child? I respect the woman as a family member and a politician, even if I don't always agree with her or feel comfortable with her policies. But she went into labor during a speech, got on a plane, and drove around for a few hours to get to a hospital that isn't equipped to handle a high-risk or extremely premature birth. As a woman and as a premi myself, I was shocked and really uncomfortable that she would risk the life of her own (unborn) child, especially as a prolife candidate. If she's willing to treat her body and that of her child that way, how is she going to treat other people's children?
My thoughts ...
I am all for womens rights but I do agree with the first two comments on "At what point to we step back and say, too much!"
My opinion is yes, there should most definitely be equal rights for men and women, however we should never forget that men and women are built differently. Studies have shown that in male dominated industries, women report more stress and to succeed, they have to alter their natural way and take on a more masculine approach. e.g. In Sarah Palin's speech last night, she referred to herself as a pitbull with lipstick. Studies also show that when a woman is under extreme pressure constantly, it reduces her ability to make babies. Not so for men. They are physically stronger but we are stronger in other ways. We're different and it is that way so we complement each other.
I believe children are impressionable. There is a way women nuture children with tenderness and extreme attention to detail that men are incapable of.When a baby is born, it needs to bond with its mum by holding close and so on. Not the dad. This area comes naturally to women. Although both parents are important in the life of a child, I think in the earlier stages, the mum is most important and the father importance increases as the child gets older. There is a reason there is a longer maternity leave than paternity leave.
If we want to be treated the same as men, perhaps have equal maternity and paternity leave? If I had five kinds, 4 under 18 and one special needs, with one grand child on the way, I wouldn't take up a job that would require the best part of me. I think the presence of a mother during the impressionable years of a child is irreplaceable. Also, if I just had a special needs baby, I wouldn't return to work within 2days, I would love to bond with my child and have him get used to me. Now, this is all just my opinion.
Thank you for offering your
Thank you for offering your opinion. Everyone's opinion is important, and I'm glad you feel comfortable sharing it. I agree that men and women are different, and that they often have different ways of communicating with their children. But I still don't believe that being VP means she can't also be a mother.
In terms of what Sarah did after her child Trig was born, I have no information on the specifics. Just because she went back to work in a couple of days does not mean she didn't bond with her child. She's had 5 kids, so she may not have needed the rest. And she may have her baby with her quite a bit, for all we know. I just wouldn't want to judge her when I haven't been there and don't know what she has or hasn't done.
I don't think any of us would have the rights we have today if it weren't for women who made the choice to work their asses off to get to the top. I don't think any woman can say in one breath that they want women to have all the same opportunities and choices as men, and then say in the next breath that once they have the choices they shouldn't take them because they should really just be with their children.
Katherine Stone
Re:
I'm not saying at all she can't be a mother because she's working. I think people have different priorities in life and it's no one's place to judge them. As you rightly said, we wouldn't have the rights we have if not for the women who worked very hard to get to the top. I'm also not saying women should really JUST be with their children.
What i'm saying is, we are not the same as men and that is not a bad thing at all. The presence of a woman in the life if a child is irreplaceable; not by money/nanny's or play school. My mum worked in a bank when I was younger, she wasn't a stay home mum. She didn't work long hours and turned down promotions so she wouldn't have to spend more time away from us. She was very accessible and an integral part of my growing up and molding to the woman I am today and I am very grateful. My dad a great influence as well. As you rightly said, men and women have different ways of communicating with their children. My dad's major contribution to my moulding was when I was grown a little, not a baby/toddler.
When we got to a decent grown age, my mum really went into her career and has infact started her own company. We're not overly dependent on her anymore. I'm not saying this should be the norm with everybody as everyone is different with different priorities, but this is my background so this is where i'm coming from with this issue.
My point is, we have different roles in the life of a child and in the family. I think for a woman, depending on her priorities (which should not be subject to judgement), there is almost usually a trade-off, and you can't eat your cake and have it. You cannot pay equal attention to both and there is a time for everything. I would be a mother soon and would not be seeking an overly demanding job (stick with Project Management) because I can't imagin missing their growing up years to any degree. I would be going back to work but have no intention of going full on up the career ladder till i'm done with this importantphase of motherhood - the early years. There's a time for everything. Regarding Palin, she has made her choice, and that should be respected. She may have had reasons for going back to work 2 days after Trig.
SO true!
Excellent post, thanks for blogging on this subject. As a stay at home mom, I have wrestled with many of these thoughts.
I strongly support Sarah Palin and her run for VP, I think she will be awesome for our country!
Sue
www.praiseandcoffee.com
The Labor Story
I don't know that anyone is disputing the fact that Sarah Palin has the right to accept this position. We are in a post-women's rights movement era and I think it is generally understood that women have the right to pursue the same professional goals as men. Thank God that's true, or quite a few women that I know personally would have some serious problems supporting their families.
Tress
http://tress-aficionada.blogspot.com
I agree with Suzanne
We don't ask the same family questions about men.
I think it's important to understand that this is NOT about responsible parenting. If it was, there would have been a similar public discussion about men in powerful positions.
This is about forcing women to choose and telling them that if they have a successful career, they can't possibly be considered good mothers.
---
I blog at MomGrind
I manage my kids' activities at UpToUs
We don't have to ask
Male politicians make it very clear who is watching and caring for their children. When you see them their wives are home or in the case of the Obamas grandma is there. These questions are not asked because they answer before it can be asked. The flip side is how much credit do we give these men for being dad? There are no hockey dad signs or soccer dad signs that I can see. So if she is going to tout her status as mom then we get to question her status as mom, superwoman.
Michelle
There is a double standard
There is a double standard here, and it's coming from Sarah Palin and the Republican party.
Let's admit what we already know. It is absolutely impossible to be a VP and simultaneously an attentive parent to 5 kids, one of whom is pregnant and another who is 5 months old and has special needs. Clearly she has decided that her focus will be on her career, which will be all-consuming.
Fine, I am pro-choice and this is her choice.
However, don't get up in front of a national audience and laud yourself as a "hockey mom". Sarah, I would love to know the last time you drove a kid to a hockey game or watched one. And if I have to hear how brave and wonderful she is for having all these kids and choosing not to abort a Down's baby one more time, I will puke. She is not parenting that baby, she merely bore it. Again, her choice but , please, don't insult my intelligence by acting like she is actually holding this kid or feeding this kid or anything. Last night on the RNC platform she held the baby for like 5 seconds before passing him off to some one else.
To act like she is a great parent AND great governor is to defy reality. I would feel better for her kids if her husband was a stay-at-home dad, but alas, he is not. So hired people are raising their kids. Their choice entirely, but spare me "close family' act.
BTW, I felt the same about Edwards, a dem and a male, after learning that his wife had terminal cancer. I thought that his deciscion to continue his candidacy was wrong and knew that I wouldn't ever vote for him because he should be putting his family and wife first. Of course now I have even less respect for him than before.
We can't "Have it all" much as we would like to. Nearly every mom feels guilty about the choices she has to make in regards to balancing work and career because kid's needs are truly limitless, while our abilities limited. It's a sad reality. I have friends on both sides of the career/baby spectrum and I love and respect them all, but they all admit (on both sides mind you) that in either career or time with family, they were forced to compromise and that the choice is difficult. If I could only hear Sarah admit this I could begin to regain respect for her.
There are so many factors to consider.
I just don't think this is area is black and white. Some women simply have the energy level and resources to balance more than others. I made a set of choices for my own family, because I knew what I could (and could not) handle. I think Gov. Palin did the same. It's simply not for any of the rest of us to say.
Shannon @ Rocks In My Dryer
www.rocksinmydryer.net
BlogHer Contributing Editor, Mommy and Family
Yes the double standard continues
So many times society is concerned about a woman choosing to have a career as well as a family, but rarely do we say something about men and their careers and families. I choose to work and have a family. It means being very clear about my schedule and boundaries. With politicians please show me one who has a totally clean history and I will likely have a heart attack. Everyone has skeletons in their closets. The choice Sara has made is not one I would have made. It is the choice she felt was best for her. I can not fathom she made this decision lightly. Tara S. Dickherber, M.Ed, CPC
Moving Beyond "Super Mom"
Diane MacEachern www.biggreenpurse.com Diane@biggreenpurse.com
I'm offended by the Sarah Palin nomination for several reasons:
* Not because she's a mom and a politician, but because she seems to be exploiting her children to advance her political career. She seems to be saying, "I can run the country BECAUSE I have a special needs child; BECAUSE my daughter is pregnant." In the end, I believe the opposite will turn out to be true. (And honestly, I still can't condone the behavior of a woman who exposes her unwed, unemployed high school-age child to the brutal media coverage that's going to attend her every day until she gives birth to that baby).
* She has resurrected the notion of "supermom" after it seemed like it was finally being laid to rest. Anyone who has kids and juggles a career knows how horrible it is to try to have it all. And in fact, it's been a godsend that over the last few years, the media have finally let up on pushing the whole supermom complex. Now Palin is back, and "supermoms" are going to be in again -- and with a more unrealistic role model than ever before.
* I'm offended by how Palin contorts her political positions and falsely links them to values Americans truly care about. She claims to love the outdoors, but wants to drill for oil in the most pristine wilderness. She is under a cloud of investigations for unethical conduct in office, yet she's been elevated as an ideal politician. She thinks living in a state close to Russia is adequate when it comes to understanding the implications of American foreign policy, effectively "dumbing down" U.S. expectations for global leadership.
Palin never would have been chosen were she not a woman. In the end, her selection was a clever political ploy masterminded by a cynical politician to shift the debate away from his own political weaknesses.
Discussion = change
So maybe this discussion among us will make all of us a little bit more aware of the conundrum a working mother contends with. And after we are more aware, perhaps then we will be motivated to implement policies or act in ways that support structures that allow all parents (moms,dads,guardians) to raise their families the way they choose. I know my life would be easier - and healthier - if I could work from home part of the week and if I knew my husband wouldn't get a reprimand if he had to take a sick day to take our little one to the doctor.
I'm looking forward to seeing our discussion work as a catalyst for change. How do you think we can do it together?
Notions of Identity
I like your thinking Lara.
I like your thinking Lara. I now work full-time as an advocate without pay. I'm not interested in going back to work full time, because I have made the personal choice that I really like picking my kids up from school each day. I've tried to find a job share or part-time job that is worthy of my skills and abilities and they just aren't available. I look forward to the day when more companies realize that it doesn't matter where you do the work as long as it is done well, on time and with integrity. This will benefit all families.
Katherine Stone
This is spot-on
How do we make the policies of government, business and everything in between support all women to reach their ambitions, the same as men get to pursue and reach them? That really is what it boils down to.
Maybe I'm just an odd-person out - I'm a process person - I LOVE to hrea from parents "how they do it" and I want to know - how does Palin do it. This intense curiosity from me is not unique to Palin - as I've written on my own blog. I bug every women I know who is higher up and continuing to climb this question - it shouldn't be a secret - anyway - that's how I feel. To me - it's not about prying or any of that - it's about the sisterhood of the traveling pantsuits - how do we do it??
Also - just one other thought I had while reading these comments - a lot of people are writing about how we never ask the men. I hate to say this - it sounds kind of weird - but don't you think that one reason we don't ask is because they would most often say, my wife stays home with the kids? I'm not sure how it's helpful to suggest that if women are asked, men should be asked - for the most part the answers are going to be quite different and signal different things.
Anyway - that's just thinking on my feet so to speak. Not sure - other thoughts?
Jill
Writes Like She Talks
Of course there's a double standard
If there wasn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I'm an unreconstructed pro-choice feminist and I felt that I had to stand up for Ms. Palin despite the fact that I find her politics repugnant.
http://sandradginzburg.typepad.com/inner_city_mama/
Sandy
Go for it, Sara! I don't care what Dr. Laura
says!
Dr. Laura said that she doesn't believe that Sara Palin is a good role model. I disagree. She's showing her daughters how to be strong in the face of opposition, how to pursue their talents and dreams, and how to make a difference in the world, even if others don't support you. Her oldest daughter is pregnant, aren't those the messages she needs to hear and see lived out before her?
Andhonestly, my husband does just as much parenting as I do. His accepting the role of Vice President would impact my daughter just as much as if I did.
Go for it, Sara!
I sort of wonder if one's
I sort of wonder if one's view of the stay-at-home dad, or the dad vs. mom nurturing argument, has something to do with a woman's experience with her father and/or husband/partner. My husband is a fully-involved dad. We share the bedtime duties -- we each get two nights on, two nights off. We both cook and clean the house -- thank the Lord above that he likes to mop. He comes up with things like the "Moonlight Walk" where he lets my son stay up late every time there is a full moon and they go on a walk together in the moonlight. My husband is just as capable at this parenting job as me. Granted, we are different. I'm more likely to kiss the wounds, where he's more likely to tell the kids to brush them off. But I think my positive experience with my husband leads me to believe it is possible for any family to share the duties in a way that works for everybody.
Katherine Stone
Generational
That's a nice thing to share, Katherine, because I think it puts context to your positions as fleshed out in this and other threads.
My mom married in the late 1950s and struggled through being young enough in the 60s that she could have been caught up in the civil rights movement etc., but also married young and had kids early and held up that 1940s 1950s image of her mother as the ideal.
I grew up watching her really ricochet between the expectations of a man raised with the same images of a wife (my dad) and her own visions of what some of her peers were doing vis a vis the women's movement. But ultimately, she settled into a more or less subservient role. I had the extremely sad experience of one of my kids recently saying that they thought my mother could have been so much more if my father hadn't expected what he did of her - which was based on that 1940s 1950s person.
Now - my husband? HE's evolved from that - certainly on the surface - and we work hard at making sure I Don't feel subservient - but I'm at the end of the baby boomers and so he still does have some images of how his grandmother was and his mother too. This has made it difficult to be as you describe your marriage.
It is not so simple to even aspire to have it as you describe - and I think that there's a failure in some of these discussions to realize just how hard it is in reality to "have it all" - whatever that is.
Jill
Writes Like She Talks
Great Post
I think about the Dad thing here a lot - my husband is a much much better "mother" than I am. So I do feel it is disrespectful to the "first dude" (love that title).
I also think a lot about the fact that I might not have the energy to have 5 kids and do what Sarah is doing, BUT I'm so glad someone does -- because someone who knows juggling can be up there in politics and perhaps address some of the issues that busy families (not just kids, but caring for elder parents, family members, etc) deal with.
Thanks for the post Katherine!
As I said, I don't believe
As I said, I don't believe that Sarah Palin's having children should keep her from pursuing the VP candidacy.
However, please don't assume that Todd Palin is a stay at home dad. Between his job at British Petroleum and commercial fishing, he earned $92K+ last year.
I think it has been said
I think it has been said that he will stay at home if she becomes Vice President. I don't know that for sure though.
Katherine Stone