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I write Stirrup Queens when I'm not reading other people's blogs, cooking, or chasing after my twins. I'm the author of two books: Life from Scratch,...
 
 
 
 

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Choosing Limbo: What Do You Think of Undivorcing?

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The first time I heard of undivorcing was a few years back when I was being interviewed for a magazine. The interviewer said something confusing about her husband while we were making small talk and when I asked her another question about it, she admitted it was complicated.

They were neither married nor divorced.

"Separated?" I questioned.

"Not exactly," she told me. "Because we're actually very much together. And apart. At the same time. We have turned our house into two apartments and our kids can move between our two, separate spaces. He couldn't afford to live on his own nor was he able to take care of himself. And there is still a lot of love there, even if we can't be married to one another. I've freaked you out now."

I wasn't freaked out; only intrigued. I mean, even marriages that end start from a place of love, and it makes sense that a marriage that ends amicably can be sustained with what amounts to a very complicated friendship. Not everyone seeks divorce and the closure it can bring to a union. This woman was free to date other people and pursue her own interests, her children had an easy transition between co-parenting homes, and her ex-husband-yet-still-husband had the aid he needed in order to live. They had a situation they made work.

And according to the New York Times, there are many other couples in a similar space of undivorce, choosing to remain in the limbo of separation rather than return to their marriage or end it. According to the article, "Divorce lawyers and marriage therapists say that for most couples, the motivation to remain married is financial." Finances cover everything from needing your spouse's insurance to not being able to afford a separate residence.

Of course, not everyone sees undivorce as the perfect solution. Newlyweds Blog sniffs that she doesn't see anything admirable about remaining in a state of separation.

Love or falling out of love is impractical. Your divorce should be, too. It doesn't have to be insanity, but it shouldn't be as clinical as filing taxes either. Marriage gone wrong is messy and complicated and that's all right. In fact, it's normal. And divorcing spouses should embrace the tragedy, throw themselves a pity party, own their divorce, and then move on. A divorce gives them freedom from a marriage that wasn't working.

Cheryl Williams at the Examiner wonders what children of undivorced couples will learn about marriage from watching their parents in this state. She explains,

It would seem that it might give children a very skewed vision of what marriage is about. Seeing a lack of intimacy and affection between their parents may teach them that this is the way a marriage is supposed to be. Seeing their parents in separate bedrooms, living separate lives (though married) may very well give a new meaning to the word 'marriage.'

Politics Daily wryly points out that "'It's complicated' is a common term un-divorced couples use to describe their unconventional marriages. Naturally, Facebook has this 21st century option as a relationship choice."

What are your thoughts on undivorce and the idea of remaining married yet separated indefinitely?

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens and Lost and Found. Her book is Navigating the Land of If.

Photo credit: Phil Wood.

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bubblieb 5 pts

Well I am a part of this circus. I am in a relationship of 8 yrs with a man that refused to have his ex and I not get along. We are the best of friends the ex and I (well we are still working on the final ex of it all). She comes up to our house on the weekends to spend time with her kids and we all hang out. My kids even call her momily!! It can be done yet is so hard and always takes work. Would I do it again? Never, but it is best for the kids and that is what we all had in mind when we started this whole journey, and that is what it has truley been. Divorce sucks no matter how you do it, so why not make it easier on the kids? They all turn 18 one day and things get easier as time goes.

Perspective 5 pts

First, who associated "limbo" with what seems to be, for those who can successfully fit the mold, a very civilized and elegant solution? The first 3 statements are valid considerations but not necessarily stumbling blocks.

We have to stop looking at and thinking about relationships in the narrow "blinder" driven relevance that society doles out to the peope. By society I mean religiously mentored masses and subsequently religious political zealots and by mentored I mean brain washed.

Just because people are evolved enough to deal with emotions in a civilized manner, especially if there was no overt betrayal of any kind and the people simply grew apart over the years, does not constitute pain avoidance. A couple of reasons that peolpe stay involved in relationships that CAN thrive in these conditions are the well being of children and because beyond the puppy love, over the course of 10-20-30 years there is a trust and comraderie that you don't just assasinate in the name of some misguided religious tenet claiming a union must be all or nothing.

Lastly the link to that "inspiring story" is very nice...very evolved, poetic, articualte and eloquent. It does not, however, seem that there were any young children or financial strife. These being the main ingredients for the contemplating the arrangement discussed in this forum.

KM2772 5 pts

I didn't know it was anything but "complicated". My husband is a recovering alcoholic and after being together for 15 years and married for 11 of those I called enough is enough and sent him packing. After nine months of sobriety, financial hardships for us both and emotional strain on the kids we agreed for him to live in a caravan in the backyard.
We haven't decided to divorce because we do still love each other but I'm adamant that he will need to prove his dedication to sobriety and that I will work on forgiving him before we re-unite. So we intend for it to be a temporary "undivorce" yet a necessary one.
Living on the same property means shared expenses, the kids can 'go over to Dad's' whenever they like and we get time apart as well as time to rebuild our love in a way that will hopefully be enduring while still maintaining an arms length while we sort out our relationship.
As for showing the children what marriage is about... in our circumstance, I believe it shows them that through the hardest, crappiest times in our relationship, we're still trying to work together to solve the issues and stay together rather than throw our hands in the air and call it quits.
Everyone's different but it can work.

amanda@smartsteps 5 pts

I like the fact that someone has given it a name! From the practical and financial aspects, it is a great solution. I don't support the argument that it gives children a skewed view of marriage because it is surely a better idea than just living together as a married couple who don't like each other, or who live together, like each other, but dont want to get married in the first place. Life is always about compromise - if we can define what we want, and this is a step towards that, then I am a supporter!

NotJustAnotherJennifer 5 pts

I'm not trying to judge, but I think this concept perfectly illustrates that the institution of marriage has lost it's sanctity. I completely get how living separately would be the easier way to go - the first six months of our marriage, I thought, if we could just live next door to each other, this would totally work! I seriously considered an annulment. Marriage is HARD. But it's a commitment. A real, true commitment. I know people who've been more committed to a job or even a workout regimen than to marriage. You can't go into it thinking, well if it doesn't work out, we'll just separate/divorce/and now apparently, undivorce. It's not easy.

I have found that I rambled on about this for some time - much too long to comment here. I'm just going to have to elaborate in my own blog post! I just wanted to say thanks for bringing this to light - I hadn't heard of it before!

Jennifer Barr is a working mom of two beautiful girls under the age of three which means she's sleep deprived but constantly kept on her toes! She jots down random thoughts about all aspects of life as well as some short story ideas.

karenmblack 5 pts

It's possible that this could work if both people in the relationship don't want future partners - ever. However, is this realistic?

As soon as one of them meets someone they really care about - wham! This arrangement will dredge up all of the pain and power-struggles they sought to avoid.

As for dating someone in this situation, I'd consider this a huge red flag. These are folks who haven't done the work of completion. They're still enmeshed, still entangled - call it what you will.

They're making life decisions based on pain avoidance. Something that may be human nature certainly, but as a long term life plan, feels like a rationalization to me.

I was inspired recently by the story of a couple who chose to split in a way that was incredibly loving and empowering. Read below...

http://barbaradensmore.ca/2010/03/the-divorce-cere...

When I read this, I cried and my heart filled with love. When I hear about 'Limbo' I feel tired and sad. Gonna trust my body on this one.

Nuff said.

Karen M. Black
Heart explorer and Founder
The Soulmate Site ( http://www.the-soulmate-site.com )

Clamo88 5 pts

I think Facebook is right to offer the crazy new relationship tags. I wonder,though, if it and the other social networking sites will ever acknowledge the relationships spawned through their connections that never make the News Feed or see the light of day...
love affairs.

Elizabeth Gordon Barrett

www.afacebookstory-oneclickaway.blogspot.com ( http://www.afacebookstory-oneclickaway.blogspot.co... )

MomOfThree 5 pts

I've never heard of "undivorced" but I do think the concept fascinating. I expect it is often a transitory state - e.g. until the kids grow up.

As a child my neighbours lived in a somewhat similar situation. In their case they didn't handle it quite as admirably and the wife didn't speak to the father at all. Their "undivorce" was purely financial.

We just considered it marriage though. And I wonder if that type of "marriage without love" wasn't just as common decades ago (particularly during recessionary times), except that what happened at home remained private and wasn't blogged and tweeted about.

This "undivorce" seems like a much more empowered take on that (especially for women) - the freedom to choose an arrangement that works for the couple, instead being forced into this situation because of social pressures like the "shame of divorce" which would have carried a much higher weighting back in the 50s.

It certainly seems that a conscious choice to live in "undivorce" would result in a less toxic environment for the kids growing up. Of course it would shape the kids' view of marriage, but so would living in a home where the parents are constantly fighting and feel that they must remain in a conventional marriage.

Very thought provoking article.

When Did I Become My Mom? ( http://whendidibecomemymom.com )

missymartinez 5 pts

You know, so long as boundaries are set I don't think this is strange. In fact, there are even stranger situations out there -- my sister moved in with her ex-husband several years ago AFTER being married to ex-husband's best friend for 5 years. She had cheated on the 1st husband with the best friend, left 1st husband, divorced, re-married, had another child with 2nd husband, then all moved in together. It was somewhat disturbing to me BUT her two oldest children loved being near their dad, so what can I say? It worked for them.

People who can get along and provide stability and love for their children are just practicing good parenting, putting the kids first while also allowing themselves room to get out of a bad relationship, so I don't get the newlywed blog or the criticism. Plus, this kind of "marriage" or "un-divorce" where children, family and stability are more important than romantic love or intimacy, is extremely common other places in the world.

I've been married 10 years and have two kids, and it certainly makes sense to me.

Dawn 5 pts

me to write a follow up post to one I wrote over a year ago when we were in the process of separating....

http://balefulregards.blogspot.com/2010/08/state-o...

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Do you think your ideas were formed only by what you saw in the house, or what you observed throughout your day in other homes, books, movies, etc?

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

It definitely would affect others who enter into a relationship with either person. But hopefully, they would go in with open-eyes, understanding the prior decisions made by the ex-couple. And if they weren't comfortable with that, not enter into the relationship.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

rivkisilver 5 pts

That's a good point; I hadn't thought of it that way. It would be nice if everything were as simple as that, wouldn't it?

mysailorsmistress 5 pts

Jennifer

www.mysailorsmistress.net ( http://www.mysailorsmistress.net )

My husband and I just went through a really rough patch. Lasted about two months and things seemed at a dead end. Being that he is Navy all that was going though my mind was how to keep my babies all together and love their daddy, also to see us as a family.

The thought crossed my mind.

Then I realized that he was young and in the Navy. I would hear about his escapades and it would probably break me apart.

I honestly can say that if it were for other reasons (ie: falling out of love) then why not. You care about that person but the love is not there. The escapades would not phase me.

As for what the children see as for how a marriage should be. I understand that. I came from a family that did not really show affection and my grandpa was a major jokester so that has an impact on me to this day.

There are pro's and con's to everything.

smartchica47 5 pts

I'm coming at this from a slightly different angle: what about the people who fall in love with those who are undivorced? My boyfriend is fully divorced but for many years, he and his ex have been so involved that the divorce has generally just been on paper - they co-parent, and he moved to this city to stay close to his daughter and since his ex-wife's entire extended family is here, he was basically adopted into that family. He has no interest in anything but a platonic relationship with his ex-wife, and I am pretty sure she feels like the same, but for years, he has basically filled the 'significant other' role for her and it's pretty clear that she's having a hard time giving that up. I believe their relationship has been great for their daughter (who is an amazingly mature teenager now) but I wonder how many adults are really self-aware and strong enough to stay married, stay on great terms, and still maintain the kind of distance from their not-ex that is necessary if you want to develop a new relationship with someone else. Or are all these undivorced people simply putting their own lives on hold until the kids grow up?

http://quirkyeconomist.blogspot.com

http://economicsforteachers.blogspot.com

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Absolutely--and you couldn't have those things you wanted without doing that. I think this is a wonderful option for those who know that they don't want another marriage in their future.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Or even if there weren't kids involved and people wanted to honour the friendship side of their relationship while ending the romantic side.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

I'm glad things worked out for you two. I love that you write about your kids, "we didn't want to fight over them." It shows a real depth of that love.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

I think Newlywed's Blog shows (rightfully so) a newlywed's mentality. Where it's all about love rather than considering logistics.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Thank you so much for weighing. It means 10 times more to hear from someone who is living it rather than hypothesizing about it.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Absolutely. And it's reductive to think that children ONLY pick up information in the home. Children will be exposed to a wide range of ideas about marriage over their life time.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

justlinda 9 pts

Because I knew I wanted to move all the way on - I wanted to acquire a true life partner, have more children. I needed to be free in order to do that.

Under different circumstances, I could see doing it very differently. I can see how the quiet pulling apart into lives that are separate and yet still somewhat entwined might be the best way for some.

It's an option on the table. I don't think it's a less viable option than any of the others out there... in fact, it may - in some situations - be preferable to full divorce, especially if it's easier on the children.

JustLinda

fabulously imperfect Nothing to See Here... Just Linda ( http://justlinda.net )

Twitter @JustLindaSTL

seemamarun 5 pts

What works for one doesn't always work for another. If this works for some couples and they are truly happy and their children are well-adjusted and happy then kudos to them. I personally think this is a legitimate compromise when kids are involved. Yes, I'm married with 2 kids and yes, if my husband and I were to say we couldn't be together anymore I would definitely consider something of this nature.

bukkweat 5 pts

My husband and I did this when we first separated. For about four months. We couldn't figure out what to do with our kids and we didn't want to fight over them. We both wanted them.

After a mixture of other ideas, we ended up going to counseling and working out.

I think it's a great idea - especially if both parents can get along. It's obvious that children can only benefit when they have as much access to both parents as they'd like, without being fought over.

rivkisilver 5 pts

I can't imagine the difficulty of being in this situation - Sarah, I wish you all the best.

I agree with the other commenters that NewlyWeds Blog's response is too simplistic and lacking compassion. I also don't agree with her idea that marriage is as simple as "Love or falling out of love..." Seems to me that marriage is more about hard work than warm fuzzies (granted, I've only been married -happily- for 2 1/2 years, so I'm hardly an expert).

As to the Examiner's concern that undivorce gives children a "skewed vision of what marriage is about," is there any consistent vision of the "definition of marriage," anyways? Has the examiner looked around at the infinite variations of relationships lately?

It would make more sense to worry about the well-being of the kids, period, than about their concepts of marriage. And to give plenty of support to anyone going through a tricky patch, no matter how they choose to handle it.

planetjoshmom 5 pts

I am currently in this situation. It's not my preference, but at the moment it is necessary. It is not easy, and it is a bit confusing for the kids, but mine is still an evolving situation and my (ex)husband was living in an apartment for a year before he moved back. The reasons are mostly financial, but there are some issues on his side with acceptance, and I think that his being back here and really seeing how we simply will not ever have that relationship again will help him ultimately move on.

Our situation is temporary. But I could see if we had a home environment better suited to completely separate living accommodations and he was in an emotional state where he could move on as well, then I could see it being a more viable long-term solution.

Sarah

http://planetjosh.squarespace.com

http://sarahndipity.onsugar.com

elanas 5 pts

One of the worst aspects of divorce is that the kids end up having two homes, shuttling between them, never really knowing what 'home' is. This solution I think is the most compassionate towards children, the one that seeks to enable the kids to experience the greatest amount of stability in their lives, where parents are doing what's best for the kids.

As for the comment that the kids will learn that marriage has little intimacy, well, it's better than learning that marriage is acrimonious and harsh and destined for failure. I'd rather have parents who get along and are civil, even if they're not intimate, than all kinds of un-civility that comes with some of the alternative options.

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Why the harsh? Because that's what those in a comfortable position do. Smart people realize that it's a short step from judging to being judged. And damn, life (and marriage) is so hard, you'd think that people would be thrilled whenever someone finds something that works for them.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

Melissa Ford 5 pts

Oh, I think Newlywed Blog is still in the starry-eyed space of early marriage. I think those who have been married for a while know that there should be little judgment in configurations on how people make things work (both in marriage and divorce). It's a short road from judgment to being judged.

Melissa writes Stirrup Queens ( http://stirrup-queens.com ) and Lost and Found ( http://lostandfoundandconnectionsabound.blogspot.c... ). Her book is Navigating the Land of If ( http://thelandofif.blogspot.com/ ).

JennaHatfield 10 pts

I'm wondering why there is such a harsh reaction to the concept. Do the opponents of undivorcing also judge those who live together but never marry? The same question could be asked of those families, "What are they teaching their children about marriage?" It's silly, really, the judgment.

The nuclear family isn't the only way to do it. Haven't we learned that yet? If anything, working together to provide for the family unit in a way that works for all parties should be applauded. If they were constantly bickering or making the kids' lives hell, well, it would be a different story. Working together to find a result that works for everyone? Oh, yeah, that's a bad idea.

Jenna Hatfield (@FireMom ( http://twitter.com/FireMom )), from Stop, Drop and Blog ( http://stopdropandblog.com ) and The Chronicles of Munchkin Land ( http://thechroniclesofmunchkinland.com ), is a freelance writer and newspaper photographer.

ms_lorelei 5 pts

...Newlyweds Blog has ever lived through divorce? Or if so, done it with children?

There is nothing more agonizing - relationshipwise - than divorce with children. The second guessing is the stuff of nightmares. The grief over watching your child wave goodbye at the parent driving away from them is heartbreak that repeats itself over...and over...

The fact that divorce on a practical level creates two impoverished households is a stark and well documented reality.

And sometimes, needing to not be married does not mean hate, or betrayal, or a negation of many years of history. It just means, "this isn't working for either of us and I can't do it any more." What victory or honor is there in drama and hysterics? Why go there if you don't have to?

So for a couple to say, "I need more, I need something else, but caring for you is not over and I will do WHATEVER I need to do to make sure our children are loved, and free from trauma." And that manifests in a calm, albeit unusual, living circumstance...lovely.

Children loved with immediate access to both parents? Lovely.

Parents happy, not financially traumatized and free to be fully satisfied, happy people? Lovely.

My ex and I are very dear friends. But we both wanted to seek new long term partners, so that arrangement probably wouldn't have worked for us.

But for them? Lovely.

Lori, speech pathologist, writer, and business owner, blogs home-family-working-mom drama at In Pursuit of Martha Points. ( http://inpursuitofmarthapoints.com )