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By day, Nina sells software, but her real estate investments have grown to become a significant part of her financial plan and also a great passion. A...
 
 
 
 

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The Cost of a Given Name

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“Words have meaning and names have power.” – Author Unknown


Last week I wrote a guest post at I Will Teach You To Be Rich about how men’s and women’s magazines write about money. My conclusion: women get fed the softer side of money from the likes of O, The Oprah Magazine and Glamour. It created some lively comments and one submitted by John M. introduced a thought that I wanted to expand on today at BlogHer. He writes:

"We talk down to women about money for the same reason we give our daughters names like “Tiffany” and “Amber” while naming our sons things like “Robert” and “David”. Our expectation is that they will be homemakers or trophies and nothing else. How many physicians have you known named “Amber”? Mine is named Mary."



That’s interesting. My doctor’s name is Chris. As in Christina.


Anyone want to explore this topic with me? To get the conversation started, take Kelly’s post at Don Mills Diva where she asks:

"What’s in a name?

What’s in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet.

I’ve gotta say, I’m with Shakespeare on this one.

A Globe and Mail article earlier this week on the lengths parents will go to find the perfect name for their offspring leaves me bemused.

Bemused because I think parents who pay $99.95 for a 30-minute name consult (for real – you can’t make this stuff up!) are wasting their money on something that really doesn’t matter that much at all… for the most part, your child is going to grow into whatever name you give them and therefore define the name they are given, not the other way around."



Kelly named her son Graham.


A couple of years ago, research from the UK found that the chances of being a top earner are impacted by a parent’s decision about what to name their child. The survey by Barclays shows that there are more Davids and Susans earning over £100,000 than any other name.


But Laura Wattenberg, author of The Baby Name Wizard and iVillage blogger disputes the findings in her post: Quick, name your kids David and Susan! Or don’t. She writes:

As you would predict from the economic lifecycle curve, the names on the Barclays list were big hits about 35-55 years ago. Based on this, I wouldn’t rush out and change my name to Davy-Sue.

At Freakonomics, there’s a FREAK-TV video featuring Steven D. Levitt discussing the topic of naming your kid. His conclusion: Name Your Kid Fido If You Want

That said, he did write a chapter with his co-author in their popular book about the economic implications of a child’s names. Most of the chapter focuses on the ethnic African-American names that have become commonplace. Here’s the blurb from WikiSummaries:

The authors tied this issue to a larger question about contemporary black culture in the United States: is distinctive black culture merely a reflection of the economic gap between whites and blacks, or has it actively caused the gap to widen?

Using several decades of name data drawn from California birth certificate records, Levitt’s analysis revealed a number of interesting trends. The authors cite previous research that has shown that similar résumés with white and distinctively black names result in job offers being extended to the white-sounding applicant far more frequently than the black-sounding applicant. Among other things, it was determined that having a distinctively black name was linked to lower attainment and negative life outcomes in terms of employment, income, and education.

The question in the book then turned to how names become popular among white Americans:

In addition to the general trend of increasingly unique names for white children, Levitt describes a pattern by which highly educated parents popularize obscure names, gradually compelling the names to achieve broader popularity. Finally, after a period of several years, white parents from lower socioeconomic classes adopt the names, prompting a selection of new names among highly-educated white parents, and the repetition of another cycle.

The Slate magazine blog ran excerpts from the book and included the following:

Obviously, a variety of motives are at work when parents consider a name for their child. It would be an overstatement to suggest that all parents are looking—whether consciously or not—for a smart name or a high-end name. But they are all trying to signal something with a name, and an overwhelming number of parents are seemingly trying to signal their own expectations of how successful they hope their children will be. The name itself isn’t likely

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Oh Baby Gifts 5 pts

Actually, there are a few cultures that say a persons destiny is in a name also. For instance, a lot of Jewish parents wont name their child after a relative that died from a serious illness.

While I dont believe in so much, I do believe there is an effect of how you name your child. Names like Bambi or Amber will make you think less of someone since they have their typical associations with less respective professions. And in most cases perception is everything.

One final note, as popular as this name was in the past.....I shall never name my son Dick :P

Great article!

Joelle
Oh Baby Gifts ( http://www.ohbabygifts.com )

Grace Davis 5 pts

And, what if "Bambi" had excellent qualifications? A stellar reputation? And customers prospered with her investment recommendations?

Yet, she won't be given a chance because of her stripper name?

Hopefully any gut reaction one may have about someone called Bambi handling client finances would be replaced with fair, objective thinking.

By the way, I found this:

Bambi Holzer Financial Group ( http://www.bambiholzer.com/about.aspx )

Ms. Holzer has appeared on the Today Show, NBC Nightly News with Tom Brokaw, Fox on Money, CNN, CNBC, Bloomberg, Lifetime, and local television and radio shows across the country. She's been quoted in such publications as U.S. News and World Report, Money Magazine, Business Week, Smart Money, Research Magazine, Investors Business Daily, New York Times and the Los Angeles Times. A popular speaker, she is frequently invited to address investment clubs and industry forums. She has written several articles on retirement planning and is the editor of Pension Perspective, a newsletter featuring information and applications of ERISA law. She is the author of four best selling books on retirement planning and personal finance published by John Wiley & Sons and Amacom Books.

Doesn't sound like a pole dancer to me.

Grace Davis
Contributing Editor
State of Grace ( http://gracedavis.typepad.com/ )

Nina Smith 5 pts

Valerie: I'd forgotten that your boys were twins. Thanks for the added details about your thought process. Naming from the heart indeed sounds like good advice for any parent-to-be.

By the way, I loved the part about your grandfather not giving your mother a middle name. He sounds feisty. My parents did something similar to prevent the middle name use and I was given the same middle name as both my sisters. Personally, I always thought this was a strange choice on their part.

Grace: my... what a great comment. That could have been a post in and of itself. Thanks for pointing out the study. I find those statistics to be staggering and shows how bias is still alive and in the workplace... which all links back to economics and class. Very interesting points.

I also loved your anecdotal example about Dr. Wendy.

Nina Smith
Queercents ( http://www.queercents.com )
We're here, we're queer, and we're not going shopping without coupons.

Grace Davis 5 pts

Nina, great research. And, yes, agreed - there's very little analysis on the subject of names/financial worth/societal-class status from the mommy/family editors here and elsewhere in the blogosphere. I'm going out on the limb of controversy by thinking that's because the vast majority of mommy bloggers are white. They have more than likely given their kids "white-sounding" names. Now and again there are white kids with exotic names - Kai is big around my home town of Santa Cruz, CA - but, otherwise it's all about Ashley and Michael.

Edited to add - Consistent with the study cited in the wikipedia link above - Names are a major issue for non-white parents. From the CBS News archive, 'Black' Names A Resume Burden? ( http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national... )

When Vonnessa Goode gives birth in a few weeks, one of her first decisions could be among the toughest: whether to give her daughter a distinctively black name.

On the one hand, Goode and the child's father don't want their daughter "robbed of her ethnicity," she said. On the other, she believes a distinctively black name could end up being an economic impediment.

"I do believe now when a resume comes across an employer's desk they could be easily discriminated against because they know that person is of African-America descent," she said. "It's a difficult decision."

A study backs up this parent's concerns:

The University of Chicago's Marianne Bertrand and MIT's Sendhil Mullainathan...appeared to find that a black-sounding name can be an impediment, in another recent NBER paper entitled "Are Emily and Greg More Employable Than Lakisha and Jamal?"

The authors took the content of 500 real resumes off online job boards and then evaluated them, as objectively as possible, for quality, using such factors as education and experience. Then they replaced the names with made-up names picked to "sound white" or "sound black" and responded to 1,300 job ads in The Boston Globe and Chicago Tribune last year.

Previous studies have examined how employers responded to similarly qualified applicants they meet in person, but this experiment attempted to isolate the response to the name itself.

White names got about one callback per 10 resumes; black names got one per 15. Carries and Kristens had call-back rates of more than 13 percent, but Aisha, Keisha and Tamika got 2.2 percent, 3.8 percent and 5.4 percent, respectively. And having a higher quality resume, featuring more skills and experience, made a white-sounding name 30 percent more likely to elicit a callback, but only 9 percent more likely for black-sounding names.

In our family history, my Filipino immigrant parents had "white sounding" names. Our grandparents lived in the period of America's colonization of the Philippines (a territory of the US from 1898 to 1935) and that influence is reflected in my parents' and our aunts and uncles first names - Benjamin, Margaret, Ray, Betty. Our generation continues this trend.

As for my own name, I don't think I will ever get used to how some people are visibly startled when they finally meet me after dealing with white sounding 'Grace Davis' over the phone and online. They expect a white woman. Surprise! they get a brown woman.

Longtime BlogHerista, Melinda Casino, wrote about her own startle reflex after the first BlogHer in 2005:

How long does it take your race switch to click to white? ( http://sourduck.blogspot.com/2005/09/how-long-does... )

In the case of my daughter, her Dad and I wanted to honor his Irish mother Rosemary. Though the name Rosemary is lovely, we chose 'Molly Rose', which, given that 'Molly' is an Irish nickname for Mary, is Rosemary backwards. For my part, I wanted to honor Molly Ivins, so it was a win-win, except for Molly herself who wished she had been named 'Nicole'.

Further to the issue of physicians and other professionals - society will have to adapt to having docs with femmy sounding names like Amber and Tiffany. Last year, Yale 's medical school admitted 179 women, 59% of the class of 2010 ( http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/17147?b... ). No doubt there's a Tiffany or two in that and other medical schools.

It's also a matter of adapting to female style and appearance. My friend with the femmy sounding name of Wendy, a 37 year old physician with Shirley Temple curly hair and a naturally high pitched voice, is regularly mistaken for a nurse or social worker when she's checking out her patients on the ward. These folks making such assumptions would probably be taken aback with her speciality - interventional neuroradiology, a new field of medicine involving the introduction of catheters and stents into the cranium for the treatment of brain aneurysms and arteriovenous malformations. Her work involves inserting thin tubes into the brain via the femoral artery. She is essentially jamming lines up a patient's leg, though the torso, up the neck and into the brain while navigating her course via a monitor.

I digress, but I love talking about my friend "Doctor Wendy's" job, a medical speciality that takes a lot of nerve and ovaries.

Finally, back to my name, All I ask is that I'm never addressed as "Gracie'. Only my cousins are allowed this privilege. Anyway, it's a dorky name.

Grace Davis
Contributing Editor
State of Grace ( http://gracedavis.typepad.com/ )

Valbee 5 pts

Nina, I really did name them JM and JL. What, those aren't great names? ;)

Truth be told, only one of their names was chosen before they were born: Justin Michael. I didn't know I was having a second boy. I'd had two girls names picked out, but not two boys. When the other twin was born and I learned he was also a boy, it didn't take me long at all to know what I wanted to name him: Joshua Lee. To this day, I'm not sure where the Lee comes from, but Joshua was the name of a preteen boy I'd spent two summers taking care of while his mom worked. His family was going through a horrible time and it always amazed me that Josh handled it as well as he did. Maybe I knew subconsciously that my own Josh would need the same kind of strength later on in life.

My father had my name chosen a decade before he even knew he was having a daughter. I haven't always loved my name, but knowing that it meant that much to my dad made me appreciate it. My mom feels the same way about her name, which was given to her by her father. On both sides of my family, there was a tendency to call the women by their middle names instead of their first names. Both of my grandmothers went by their middle names. My grandfather purposely gave my mother no middle name so that she had to be called Diane.

These are things that have come from the heart. I'm not saying that names aren't important. I'm saying that the people who spend $100 on a consulting session are just as bad as the people who name their children after body parts. And I personally would never give my child a name based on how many successful people have had that same name, unless it was one I loved anyway.

Disorderly Conduct ( http://www.infovirtuoso.com/blog )

Nina Smith 5 pts

Valerie: You refer to your boys as JM and JL - now I'm trying to figure out what the J's stand for?

Liz: I like the point you make about actors changing their names. This makes me think there's something about "branding" that holds true.

Helene: That's interesting because the name Helen is my top pick if we have a baby girl. The few Helen's that I personally know are strong, smart, beautiful women and the famous Helen's - as in Helen Mirren (strong), Helen Thomas (smart) and Helen Hunt (beautiful) bring these same characteristics to mind. My partner isn't quite sold on it and it sounds "old-lady" to her. I've learned as we've considered names that my affinity for certain ones is personal and attached to those I know with that name. I think Helen and Helene are lovely names. I hope I convince my partner of it when the time comes.

Jessica at BernThis: I think you make a great point... take this further and I wonder if a woman named Bambi would ever have the chance of becoming a successful money manager? Do names set us on a particular path just by association?

Nina Smith
Queercents ( http://www.queercents.com )
We're here, we're queer, and we're not going shopping without coupons.

BERNTHIS.COM 5 pts

I'm sorry and I am truly not trying to be funny here, but I have to say that if I called an investment company looking for an advisor and I was connected to a woman named Bambi and told she would be great at making my dollar go as far it could, I don't know, but I would be wary. I mean it. I'm sorry but when I named my little girl, so many names just reminded me of women who work with poles and I don't mean telephone.

there is a first impression with many names and I think parents should take that into consideration. That being said, my daughter is named Phoebe and everyone I meet thinks I am a dead ringter for Jennifer Aniston so in this case, her name actually reflects on me in that the people look at me and wonder if I watched 200 too many episodes of "Friends" in my life.

moddivorce 5 pts

While I agree that some names just shouldn't be given to children, such as "Bambi" or "Barbie", I find it hard to believe that a name can guarantee or destroy a person's chances of long term success. I understand that there are studies about names like "David" and "Susan", but I have to question whether it was the name and not the discriminatory nature of the employers or teachers that actually cause the problems. And, don't forget statistics. If more children are named David and Susan than any other name, it's likely that Davids and Susans will be successful because more exist.

All of that said, I hated my name growing up because I didn't like the way teachers or nurses made it sound so I dropped the "e" and went by Helen instead of Helene. Of course, then I was more susceptible to kids rhyming name games. Today, I like my name but my sister, has changed her name completely, much to my parents chagrin. So, ultimately, I think a parent should choose a name they like, that if possible, won't make their child a target of mean name calling games, and let the rest happen natrurally.

Helene
The Modern Woman's Divorce Guide
http://themodernwomansdivorceguide.com/blog

Liz Rizzo 5 pts

I would never say anyone's completely doomed by a name, but any particular name has an energy and a first impression impact it brings with it.

There's a reason actors change their names.

There's a reason I go by "Liz Rizzo" and not "Elizabeth Rizzo." And "Beth Rizzo" would be a totally different person altogether.

Certainly, with more unique names, people's feelings are much less entrenched or perhaps even unformed, but with names that have been around awhile, there's definitely baggage, good and bad.

Liz Rizzo ( http://www.blogher.com/blog/liz-rizzo )

I blog at Everyday Goddess ( http://everydaygoddess.typepad.com/ ).

Valbee 5 pts

What was I thinking? I just went with names I liked!

Disorderly Conduct ( http://www.infovirtuoso.com/blog )