BlogHer - Edelman, Wal-Mart and fake blogging - Comments

Me too- and do you trust them?

Morra Aarons Mele — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 17:57:58 -0500

If you see companies using blogs "in this fashion" is your opinion automatically tarnished? I'm assuming it is.

I think you're absolutely right that this Wal-Mart issue is just the tip of the iceberg.

Hi Tery Spataro

Lisa Stone — Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:50:22 -0500

Now you've intrigued me! Can you elaborate on what you mean when you write:

Wal-Mart is not the only company using blogs in this fashion there are several other corporations yet they remain untouched as well as undiscovered.

I'd love to know which blogs you're talking about. . .

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

Trust

joel — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 19:58:27 -0500

The pivotal issue with the Wal-Mart case is that it is a violation of trust, that the bloggers were not exactly who they said they were and did not represent who they said they represented.

Whatâ€™s interesting is, while Edelman has accepted some responsibility and apologized for the whole affair, much of the blame is being put on Wal-Mart. Many of the discussions Iâ€™ve read assume that Wal-Martâ€™s management wanted to do the Walmarting Across America blog over the objections of Edelman, and I believe (I use the word believe here, total conjecture on my part) it is quite possibly the opposite situation. I cannot imagine anyone inside of Wal-Mart conjuring up a scheme involving a couple of hayseeds roaming Wal-Marts around the country in an RV and serving up aw shucks homespun anecdotes about the joys of being a Wal-Mart employee. Wal-Mart is based in Bentonville, Arkansas, home also to thousands of aw shucks RV owners. These people donâ€™t think theyâ€™re cute or down-home. Thereâ€™s nothing novel about this to them, and I donâ€™t believe any Wal-Mart exec would have come up with this idea. I think Edelman pitched the idea to Wal-Mart.

Regardless of whether Edelman or Wal-Mart came up with the concept, there are two violations of trust here, then. The first is consumer trust which has been violated by Wal-Mart. The second is the trust Wal-Mart, as a client, placed in Edelman. How could someone as social media savvy as Edelman have allowed (advised?) its client to embark on such an obviously flawed venture? This case will undoubtedly find its way into the social media J-school textbooks of the future.

Dear Morra

Grayson — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:43:26 -0500

That's good to know you weren't involved in the flogs. Just that you kinda cleared a path for them. No worries. All is forgiven. And yes, I contacted Edelman via his personal blog, and he responded as requested. Everyone was polite and nice things were said. I just wish they were meant. Hope you too eventually achieve Prada bag level in life, for what it's worth. My years in corporate communications earned me a few. Like you, I'm outta there now, except as an occasional "vendor." Their money's the same as most folks, and good enough for me. We all gotta earn our blogging money somewhere. I hope our paths cross again one day, in less moderated surroundings. You sound like a pretty cool customer.

http://spaceygreview.blogspot.com/

Guidelines?! Me! Oh, that's rich.

Grayson — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 15:34:15 -0500

"Guidelines," eh? That's why I prefer to live in a shoe box, Prada preferably, and lick the road clean. And before you go all corporate-y and rule-y on me for un-Oprahesque behavior, that's all just stolen material. Stuff that boys use all the time and no one bats an eyelash. Less they are false ones.

Believe you me, you won't find this gal lurking on moderated sites anymore. Icky Icky Icky fatang old lady biscuit barrel. I am soooo outta here, ladies. Prada bag and all! Enjoy your moderated environs and lifestyles.

http://spaceygreview.blogspot.com/

BlogHer Community Guidelines

Lisa Stone — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 09:01:01 -0500

Hi Grayson,

Strong opinions are welcome at BlogHer; I recommend attacking the argument, not the person. More on the BlogHer Community Guidelines here.

Best,
Lisa

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

Hi Morra

Lisa Stone — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 08:56:11 -0500

Morra,

First things first: I appreciate and respect you for showing up here for this honest and frank exchange. Bravo!

I don't consider my criticism or that of the other folks on this list to be hollow -- the extraordinary design values on so many blogs (private blogs by just plain folks) amaze me - Check out http://www.suburbanturmoil.blogspot.com/, http://tikibartv.com, http://busymom.net)

That said, perhaps I am too far outside the Beltway, to your point:

But here's the deal: as far as I'm concerned, media entities, politicians, and websites are corporate-sponsored until proven otherwise. Everyone has an agenda: Wal-Mart Watch is a union front group. The lonely girl on MySpace was an actress, repped by a major Hollywood agency. Every word out of a leader's mouth is likely focus group-ed and dial-tested out the wazoo. We're cynical in this day and age because we need to be. The popularity of certain marketing campaigns proves people respond to brand advertising because they like it, not because it's authentic. And yes, usually advertising says it is paid for, but the lines are blurry.

Yes, there are definitely campaigns that work because people like them, not because they are authentic. And I think your description of the system is superbly phrased -- this is exactly the reason, Anna Greenberg's research proves it, that 20 million single women didn't vote in 2004! More here: Go register to vote, you sexy thing, you.

But what I feel I'm seeing in responses to campaigns like the Dove Real Beauty campaign and this WalMart flap is that many women would prefer to trust what they see -- and talk about what's real -- for a change.

A major concern of mine is that the blogosphere is being used as a massive petri dish and that it's important for consumers to be wary -- that's why BlogHer follows the guidelines I mentioned above for our own sites and affiliates. I want to trust people myself, so we're trying to build and bake trust into our community. And I think corporations and brands that wish to use blogs to talk with communities can and should do so -- as long as they do so transparently.

I noted Dove's Real Beauty campaign - what are other examples that are working for folks, successful company blogs?

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

I was not involved in the flogging!

Morra Aarons Mele — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 07:59:51 -0500

Grayson

I take your points seriously- I want to make it clear, though, that I no longer work for Edelman and was not involved at all in the Wal-Mart flog incident. I do, however, see the story from a different point of view (one I am not proud of incidentally) because I did work in Corporate PR, and indeed helped launch Wal-Mart campaign at Edelman.

There are no Prada bags in this house- I'm a freelancer/grad student!!!!

However, I encourage you to voice your views directly to Edelman...go to their site and email them.

This IS a big deal

Marianne Richmond — Tue, 24 Oct 2006 04:06:09 -0500

Lisa and Morra,

Morra, Like Lisa I made a bee line to your blog as well as reading your comment to my post and your blogher post and like Lisa I am in staunch disagreement...

I don't think I can add too much to what you covered Lisa or what I have already written other than to say to Morra that I have tried to look at this from every perspective to see if there was even a little slack to cut Edelman on this....I honestly couldn't find any.

Morra, our backgrounds are similar in many respects although I have never worked directly for a PR agency...I spent many years in client side brand management and then a few "many more" on the agency side. I also went back to school recently for a clinical social work degree....I think it was a mid-life crisis.

I do understand the agency/client dynamics and Miranda's possible "dilemna" and I do agree that social media is new territory but basic ethics, full disclosure, and honesty are not new concepts and that is really at the heart of this.

This was not a couple of poorly trained and supervised junior level kids making a bad choice. Or a client forcing an agency to compromise a prinicipal....this is about many repeated violations of something that Richard Edelman has written and spoken about all over the world. And its basic...tell the truth about who you are and who is signing the check.

Lisa quotes Richard. I quote Richard. Richard is all over talking about the principals that he and his agency embody and it turns out to be complete hypocrisy. And then they want a group hug and some input in how to train their employees in social media...how about ethics 101??

JIm and Laura are not Jim and Laura, 2 blogs and advocacy groups are products of Edelman PR? They undermine all of our credibility and set us all up to look like shills by association.

I just want them to clean it up before we have a Blog FTC to contend with and clients who laugh when we say authenticy and trust.

Marianne

Marianne Richmond
resonancepartnership

So "Tough" It Was?

Grayson — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 21:26:31 -0500

So tough for you, was it, to make a writer look like a chump when you, or your subordinates, placed my work on the Georgia Families for Wal-Mart site -- without payment or my permission? Oh, that must have been painful for you and your delicate ethics and sensibilities.

Then you and/or the monster you created never deigned to return any calls I left on some dubious voice mail with questions I had about the obvious flog, when I left a message on the very un-transparent contact page number I had to hunt down?

Great customer NO-service you provided in your "baby stepping" around the blogosphere. You set a pathetic trail of deception for others to follow, as while you may have left, with your Prada bag lined with plenty of Wal-Mart cash in the process no doubt, there will be a host of other stomping, ethically-challenged PR "leaders" foaming at the bit now to take your place. Shame on you. Shame on your utterly phoney leadership skills. Shame on Edelman for generating such pure baloney. Hell, shame on me for drinking the Wal-Mart Kool-Aid in the first place. Never again.

http://spaceygreview.blogspot.com/

Surprised...

Pam — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:45:06 -0500

I'm still shockingly naiive. The surprise for me was at how easily I was duped, not that it was corp. backed. As soon as I read the story, I though, "Duh. Of COURSE it is."

Nerd's Eye View

If the approach for Wal-Mart

Tery Spataro — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:41:31 -0500

If the approach for Wal-Mart was to use the blog as advertising it probably would have been ok. It may have been a more creative approach from a branding awareness perspective. But using citizen journalism as a ploy does have ethical consequences even though they are well within the rights of freedom of speech.

Wal-Mart is not the only company using blogs in this fashion there are several other corporations yet they remain untouched as well as undiscovered.

Tery Spataro

On the face of it, you're all right

Morra Aarons Mele — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 20:25:23 -0500

Lisa, you're correct. And Kim, I agree with you: that's why I left corporate PR too!!

But here's the deal: as far as I'm concerned, media entities, politicians, and websites are corporate-sponsored until proven otherwise. Everyone has an agenda: Wal-Mart Watch is a union front group. The lonely girl on MySpace was an actress, repped by a major Hollywood agency. Every word out of a leader's mouth is likely focus group-ed and dial-tested out the wazoo. We're cynical in this day and age because we need to be. The popularity of certain marketing campaigns proves people respond to brand advertising because they like it, not because it's authentic. And yes, usually advertising says it is paid for, but the lines are blurry.

I refuse to believe anyone could be surprised when they saw the Wal-Mart RV blog. It looked slick. It looked Wal-Mart-y. The other "flog," paidcritics.org, has had a link from the Working Families for Wal-Mart site for months.

Edelman f-ed up, but the problem is we gave them too much credit in the first place. Not to use a terrible cliche, but it reminds me of the scorpion and the frog crossing the river. Edelman is a PR firm. It manufactures image.

Asking it to work with the world's largest retailer and be wholly transparent 100% of the time, in retrospect, feels naive, at least to me. I am not excusing Edelman, I'm pointing out the hollow criticism of pundits and bloggers who should know better than to be surprised.

A rube sounds off

Pam — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:53:13 -0500

Blowing the cover on this project has the added impact of turning this already Wal-Mart ambivelent consumer even further away. Sure, I want my 4$ generics, but I'm willing to wait it out until they're available elsewhere. Why? Because Wal-Mart played me for a fool.

I'm okay with corporate blogging. It's here, it's clear we're going to have to get used to it. But I want to be able to tell the difference.

Nerd's Eye View

The slippery slope of corporate fakery...

Kim Pearson — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 18:22:18 -0500

Two data points:

1. Early in my career, I worked for a non-profit health organization that produced a weekly column for one of our city's major local dailies. The column was labelled as ours, but what we didn't disclose was that we made up the questions and answers. Now, arguably, this non-disclosure was defensible, because we were using the column to disseminate socially useful information, and some of the questions were based on queries we had actually received.

2. When I worked in corporate PR, one of the reasons I felt compelled to leave was that I was ordered to write Q&A articles that seemed to report on dialogues between employees and top executives about the company's downsizing plan. In reality, no such dialogue had taken place -- we made up the questions and the answers and didn't disclose it. Mind you, I made up questions that I thought the employees would have asked, but it was the misrepresentation that didn't sit well with me. That's part of the reason I knew I didn't belong in PR, and I had to make my way back to journalism.

Professor Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor
Law and Journalism/Media

Edelman, Wal-Mart and fake blogging

Morra Aarons Mele — Mon, 23 Oct 2006 09:41:54 -0500

Dear BlogHers,

I posted on the Wal-Mart topic here, at womenandwork.org.

As I mentioned in my post, I founded the department at Edelman responsible for the current missteps. Some commenters on Marianne's post said that this was a result of big corporate money entering the grassroots, citizen-driven blog medium we all hold so dear. Maybe, but it's of course not that simple. Some commenters praised Wal-Mart for its "baby steps" into the blogosphere.

Edelman screwed up. They overstepped. They pulled a Wal-Mart- ie, got a little hubristic, perhaps. But Edelman pioneered this stuff. They assumed the risk, and allowed many in the blogosphere to do what we do best, comment on it.