BlogHer - Islam, hijab and one vocal actress - Comments

Tanilan, I agree on modesty.

DesiGal — Wed, 01 Nov 2006 10:19:07 -0600

Tanilan, I agree on modesty. Part of what I noticed growing up in India was that you could be victimized even when you were "modest", and dressing by society's norms, other people's terms.

Shan, I read your great post on veiling. It was very interesting for me where you said you felt uncomfortable with it, inspite of being Muslim.

I've been thinking about the head covering in Islam and Catholicism, and to some extent among Hindus in North India. Speaking from a purely non-Muslim perspective, I think Catholic nuns covering their heads seems different only because it affects a lesser percentage of women, and that too women in a particular calling. In Islam, potentially it's a blanket rule (sorry, can't resist the pun :) for all Muslim women. So to an outsider, it might feel as if it is more repressive.

Among Hindus in India, covering your head is considered 'backward', since rural or less educated women do it more, and what we're seeing is that women are moving away from it. While among Muslims in the West taking up the veil in a hostile atmosphere is almost a rebellious act. It's really interesting to see how this is playing itself out in various cultures. I still have to check out Umera's posts, but I definitely will.

Priya Ramachandran
Blogher Contributing Editor - South East Asia
Words on Water

Veil

Shan — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 17:14:12 -0600

While covering one's head is required for women in Islam, the veil over the face is not. Nonetheless, modesty is to be practiced by both sexes. As you can clearly see from those verses of the Qu'ran, it isn't a matter of hiding women or being ashamed of them, but it's Islamic custom to have them cover their heads when they are not with family. There are restrictions to the way men dress as well.

I wrote a post about it on my blog today (www.shan.ca.tf). It also contains a link to another blog by a woman named Umera, she explains clearly and concisely how the veil is not required in Islam.

I don't believe a hijab or

Tanilan — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 10:02:53 -0600

I can understand covering yourself. I understand being modest. But I don't believe a hijab or anything similar can protect women from being victimized.

Crunchy, I don't disagree

DesiGal — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 09:00:37 -0600

Crunchy, I don't disagree with you. But really, how many women dress to please ourselves? If it's not the men in our lives, it's the "ideal" look gleaned from magazines, or majority culture that puts pressure on us to look/dress a certain way. Sometimes I watch those makeover shows on TV and laugh my head off at how the average person is transformed into the straightened hair and blond/brown highlights look.

Priya Ramachandran
Blogher Contributing Editor - South East Asia
Words on Water

While I am fine with a woman choosing her OWN way of displaying

Crunchy Carpets — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 00:02:26 -0600

her religion...

the whole modesty thing in the Qoran and the bible and so on is so pathetic.

That religious quote basically says 'since men have no control over their willies, that women better cover up themselves for safety.'

What does that say about men!?

I will respect any woman who feels it is important to her to cover herself..but for all the right reasons.....her own.

Not at the order of a mysoginistic religion.

Islam, hijab and one vocal actress

DesiGal — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 23:21:05 -0600

Contributing editor Priya Ramachandran also blogs at Words on Water

[img_assist|fid=2165|thumb=1|alt=shabana|caption= ]
Indian actress Shabana Azmi, who was awarded the International Gandhi Peace Prize in London earlier this month, has triggered off a controversy with her statements that Islam did not require women to cover their faces. (Azmi is Muslim.) Predictably enough, the more conservative Muslim clerics in India are riled up about it.

Syed Ahmad Bukhari, grand imam of New Delhi's Jama Masjid mosque rather patronisingly said

"Has Shabana Azmi ever read a single page from the holy quran...., she is an entertainer and she should confine herself to her profession and must not speak on things she has no knowledge about," Bukhari told reporters here.

Saturday we were at an Id party where Shabana's statements were the hot topic of discussion. The group was evenly divided - near equal numbers of Hindus, Muslims and agnostics. Equal numbers of Indians and Pakistanis, so that made for a very interesting discussion.

Our Muslim friends believed that Shabana was in fact wrong, that the Koran was clear that women should cover themselves. The word that kept coming up in this context was 'hijab' which is what we typically see Muslim women in the West wearing - a covering that hides the hair, ears etc of the wearer, but leaves the face in full view. If the Koran is clear about the hijab, it sort of proves what Shabana was saying - that there is no Koranic requirement to cover women's faces, as practised by the use of purdah and niqab in the Middle East, South East Asia.

Sam at Islamic Science believes Shabana is wrong. He provides some verses from the Koran:

â€œAnd say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.â€ (Quran 24:31).

â€œO Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognized and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.â€ (Quran 33:59)

Farzana Versey at Cross Connections feels Shabana is jumping onto the veil bandwagon. She recounts watching an interview with the actress on Indian TV:

1. Ms. Azmi said that if someone asked her to wear a veil here she would never do so, but if Jack Straw asked her to not wear a veil in England, then she would wear three veils. Of course, it was the taaliyaan kind of statement that got the applause. I have yet to hear of such a simplistic analysis. This is the sort of knee-jerk rebellion that teenagers are given to. Is this even half an ideological position? I think some of these people really like riding on the wave of such storms in teacups...
2. Someone said that if Ms. Azmi decided to wear a veil she would be out of business. This the lady took as a â€œpersonal attackâ€. It wasnâ€™t. I watched the whole programme. It was with reference to the matter of choice. And it is a fact that given her profession or that of the model is there any place for the veil?

Hindustan Times reports that "Senior vice chairman of All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and renowned Islamic scholar Dr Kalbe Sadiq on Sunday announced that Islam was against "Talibani Purdah" (rigid purdah system imposed by Talibans in Afghanistan)."

Caroline's MySpace page provides a Western perspective on the whole issue, where commenter Stephen compares the situation to what the Dixie Chicks faced: "I suspect the potential parallels between Shabana Azmi and the Dixie Chicks drew you to this story. (Bukhari's quote that Azmi's "profession is to sing and dance" might as well read "Shut Up And Sing.")"

I'm left more confused than ever about these things. Is it wrong to want to rebel against any stricture - one way or another? Are acts of civil disobedience, such as what Shabana Azmi, worthless acts? I sincerely believe the answer is no in both cases. Why do you agree/disagree with me?

I'd also love to hear from Muslims - both men and women? What are your interpretations? How do you reconcile differences between your thinking and the "official" line when it comes to modesty? Non-Muslim readers - is veiling all that different from Catholic nuns' habits? What is the history behind the evolution of the habit in Christianity?

Image from Rediff.com