BlogHer - Rich, Talented, Gorgeous, and Ultimately Unlovable - Comments

I'd love to...

Mistress Of The Dorkness — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:18:31 -0600

"Someone reading this post is going to be thinking, it is all well and good that Brian's Mom was such a good example, but that doesn't help all the other women who are being oppressed by society, family structure, etc. To this I say, let's look at more examples of powerful women and how they got their.

And let's look at more family structures where the women are on top, and everything is a-okay."

I'd like to note that women come to blogher to share experiences, so our 'bitching' is doing just that, we're bonding, mmkay.

I think you're right... the more success stories are shared, and the more successful women raise kids to know this, we'll make some headway. Women who learn about other women's success WILL be inspired and empowered and realize what they can have.

BUT, my learning about these women is not going to prevent sexism from happening to me. yes, it could affect the way I react to it, so I do see your point there.

But, we are in agreement that this is just something that will take time, a few more decades as people grow out of their disproven antiquated ideas. But, just because we know it will take awhile and will happen eventually doesn't mean we have to be quiet and just accept when it happens nowadays.

Melanie Perry
*not all who wander are lost*
Mistress of the Dorkness

How much practice have we had with successful women?

Brian — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:31:54 -0600

Speaking as the son of a nationally known, top-of-her-industry bad-ass woman, I have had a lot of experience dealing with a woman who is powerful.

I occasional brought up in school, when the "sexism keeps women down" arguments came up, that my mom decided to ignore those barriers by starting her own company, and now she is at the top of her game. My point is that some women decide they want it all, and they take it, so sexism is not keeping all women down. Yes, it is a problem, and yes, let's talk about it, but some women beat the shit out of sexism- let's talk about how they did that.

Whoever I am having this discussion with usually starts bitching more about sexism.

I think we can benefit from looking at how powerful women overcame barriers. Many students disagree.

But really, I am encouraging a change in the status quo. Stop bitching, start learning about why those women in power are there.

And here is where your post fits in, Jory. Are we as individuals, as communities, and as a society ready for having powerful women everywhere? Oprah, fine. She is one person. Martha Stewart, same deal.

But I think we may have a long way to go in accepting the basic reality that a)it is okay for women to be powerful and b)deal with it.

Someone reading this post is going to be thinking, it is all well and good that Brian's Mom was such a good example, but that doesn't help all the other women who are being oppressed by society, family structure, etc. To this I say, let's look at more examples of powerful women and how they got their.

And let's look at more family structures where the women are on top, and everything is a-okay.

Brian blogs about client services in internet marketing

Too true

Morra Aarons Mele — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:05:34 -0600

Jory

Thank you for publishing this piece. I am using it as an example to disbelievers who say women have achieved equality in the workplace and there is no need for women's rights education. If it's true we've achieved equality, we seem to pay far too steep a price for it.

Morra
PS- although, let's look on the bright side- Britney DID leave K-Fed!

You know, my husband says

The Journal Blogger — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:41:31 -0600

You know, my husband says that, too -- that so far from being threatened if I became hugely successful, he would enjoy being a "kept man."

It'd be nice to think he meant it but how many men would come right out and say, "No, dear, if you started making a lot more money than me, I'd have to go find some young piece of ass with more stamina and less earning power than you."

And, to be honest, I suspect that most men really don't think they'll react in that Neanderthal way. It may even be that, if you were to ask Ryan Phillippe right this minute, he'd come up with all kinds of reasons why his marriage failed. Denial is a common human reaction to one's own imperfections.

Nobody truly knows how they'll react until they get there, do they?

Dawn

The Journal Blog
- where business and politics meet the mind of a wise-ass

sad but too often true

Mistress Of The Dorkness — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:30:31 -0600

When my ex and I started dating... he was 5 years older, good solid job, etc. Two years later, I finished my degree and steadily increased my earnings. He was THRILLED to spend the money... but, once I added insult to injury and started a publication which spread my name and fame further than my own company... that's when he cheated.
Not saying if I'd stayed earning $5 an hour less than him instead of more, he would have remained faithful, but when I went to my girlfriends after I found out (all white-collar women previously married to blue-collar men) that they all had similar stories, and talked me through any clues/triggers.

:( I am remarried to a man in my own field. More experienced and currently has more earning power... but, he's still unemployed because of immigration issues. I shouldn't have to worry about something like that... but, I do nonetheless.

Melanie Perry
***not all who wander are lost***
Mistress of the Dorkness

Re: Rich, Talented, Gorgeous, and Ultimately Unlovable

bobafifi — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:57:33 -0600

Many years ago I got an odd fortune cookie at a Chinese restaurant. It read simply:

Behind every successful man there is always

Thanks Jory,

-Bob
bobafifi.com

guitarbazaar.com

fluteplayer.net

It's not as if

heivilinj — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:53:02 -0600

our gender hasn't given you cause to hold us all together in one rather unappealing lump! Sometimes it seems like progress that our eyebrows have separated and our knuckles no longer drag on the ground.

Jim Heivilin

A Canadian Magazine Weights In

sassymonkey — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 15:29:53 -0600

With an article called Oscar and the Grouch.

"Behind every successful actress is a man...who was just leaving. What's with Hollywood guys whose better halves are really better?"

Sassymonkey, Sassymonkey Reads, and Sassymonkey Eats

People!

Suzanne Reisman — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:44:13 -0600

I second Kalyn's comments!

Although I also want to add that a few months ago, I wrote something here about the dramatic increase in the number of married women who, according to the Census Bureau or Dept. of Labor (can't remember), earn more than their husbands. We are rapidly approaching 50% of married women living in that situation. It is a huge change, and I hope that men (who, let's be fair, have mostly been raised to believe that they are failures if their wife earns more than them) are being socialized appropriately. I doubt it, as masculine stereotypes of protector and earner seem to be getting worse. Very sad and scary.

Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminsim & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

So sad but true

Kalyn Denny — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 07:27:27 -0600

Very well said Jory. I think this is sadly often true. There are a few rare men who aren't really threatened by a woman who may be more talented or competent than they are, but not many. Women have come a long way, but lots of men haven't come very far at all.

(My apologies if this is perceived as a sexist generalization by some of the very interesting men who regularly read and comment on Blogher. Yes, it's sexist to lump men together like this. Unfortunately I'm just sharing my observations based on personal experience. There are exceptions, and lucky for the women who are able to find a man like that.)

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen

Rich, Talented, Gorgeous, and Ultimately Unlovable

Jory Des Jardins — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 21:31:36 -0600

I was at a dinner party, dissecting recent Hollywood splits--because, apparently, being newly married, my own life just isn't as interesting anymore--and up came Ryan Phillippe and Reese Witherspoon's impending divorce.

"What happened!" I exclaimed. I'd seen their movies; I'd seen the premiere pictures in People magazine. I thought I knew them so well.

My friends, who work in the PR and publishing industry, rolled their eyes as if to say, get your head out of your butt, Jory. One provided the answer:

"She won the Oscar," she said.

Today, I was in the drug store, reading celebrity tabloid headlines. One rag referred to Phillippe's agony over his dissolving marriage.

If my less-than perfect memory serves, the cover read something like:

Ryan breaks his silence about his breakup

The cheating

The heartbreak

Reese's Ambition...

It was getting clearer to me now. Whatever happened in that marriage, it was HER fault.

I found it strange, reading others' commentary about the split, that Witherspoon's success was the unspoken clincher in the breakup. No one suggested any insecurity on Phillippe's part, nor any broken promise to support his spouse through thick and--well--thicker. This had nothing to do with Phillippe's alleged cheating. Witherspoon deserved her fate, it would seem, because she was ambitious. She made more money. She won the Oscar. She proved her utter lack of commitment to the relationship because she dared to have it all.

It's possible that Witherspoon committed the ultimate sin by becoming more successful than her Man.

That Beeeyatch.

It seems that in Hollywood--and many other industries women who become more successful than their men become more unappealing than a pus-encrusted cold sore. There are many ways to kill your marriage: have sex with other men and report back, gain weight and stop touching up your roots, or for the real sadomasochists, make more money than your husband. That'll do it. He'll like it at first--probably try to establish a singing career and wear his hair in cornrows for a while. But in the end, it rarely works.

A rather silly Fox News story almost seems to console Phillippe (when reading the next paragraph, replace the word success, with "ass" to get the full gist of the ludicrousness of this claim):

The sad thing is they are both nice people. But they are also young; Ryan is 32, Reese just 30. They could never have calculated her stratospheric success.

But actresses tend to hit their stride early, with tougher times after 40. For men, it's the opposite. In five years, Ryan could be a perennial best actor nominee.

If only Reese could have held on longer, kept a lower profile. CONTROLLED herself. Wench, whore, high-paid harlot! She just had to have it all, didn't she?

Witherspoon is a modern day Eve. Remember that film? Bette Davis was the appropriate Diva because she was talented and tormented at the same time. She couldn't handle a relationship. She proved that being successful and being happy couldn't mix. Then in walks this ambitious wench who takes it all. She doesn't even want a man, she's so filthily ambitious! She'll get hers. She'll. Get. Hers.

The only difference today is that women are supposedly allowed to have it all. We want our women to be successful, don't we?

I read another interesting article in Us or People, I can't remember which (and please don't discredit the argument because of the source--they actually have a point). The article provided a list of recent Best Actress Oscar winners who divorced or broke off their relationships afterward: Hilary Swank, Julia Roberts, Halle Berry, Reese Witherspoon. All wealthy, all beautiful, all successful. All ... cheated on, disgraced, or dumped.

It's possible that Swank's marriage, the one with the least gossip around it, simply ended; but the public won't give the marriage that credit. Why? As my friend, the publicist explained to me: It just won't work when SHE becomes too successful.

This "truth" hurts. Don't we dream of making it big, buying new houses for our mothers, and thanking our wonderful, loving, supportive, spouses as we stand there on the stage? Or on the podium? Or in the corner office? Sure, I dream for my Man. But I dream for me, too.

I asked my husband, "Would you still love me if I ever became successful?"

"You are successful," he said.

"No, I mean REALLY successful. Like Oprah successful."

"Of course!" he assured me. "I could quit my job and ride my bike all day."

Strangely I felt re-assured by his answer; relieved that he didn't mention cornrows or his own clothing line.

But I must admit I wondered, "Is that what they all say?"

Jory Des Jardins also blogs at Pause

Photo credits

http://www.rwitherspoon.com
www.us.ent4.yimg.com
IMDB