BlogHer - I'm not your honey, darling, sweetheart, dear, ducky, or any other diminutive creature - Comments

It really bothers me

dmrose — Wed, 15 Oct 2008 10:00:45 -0500

I am a 47 year old woman. I hate being called honey and sweetie by waitresses and retail clerks. i think it is condescending. Last timeit happened, I asked my husband if there was something about me that caused other women to refer to me in this manner. He said, well you are very soft spoken, but the woman was wrong to refer to you as honey and sweetie. i felt like a little kid. I definitely think it is passive/agressive. From now on I will report it to management and also tell the clerk not to refer to me like that. It is all about customer service. Customers should be called by their names, period

No offence intended

Mata H — Mon, 01 Jan 2007 08:03:16 -0600

Divabat - I was just wondering if age made a difference here, as it surely can on any number of issues. In no way did I mean to even suggest that your age made you less of anything -- it is just that the lenses through which we look at the world are colored by our experience, and one of those experiences is age. Trust me, I am not one of those "older-is-automatically-wiser" folks. My intent was to say, however clumsily I said it, that the same remark could sound differently to different age groups, and that what you thought was a compliment could legitimately sound like less of one to someone else in different circumstances. Please accept my apology if how I said that was in any way upsetting.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

though.

Tiara Shafiq — Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:23:50 -0600

I do respect that you and others find it uncomfortable. That is your prerogative. I just do not feel that way, and do not appreciate my age being used as a reason.

I'd raise my eyebrow (or at

Tiara Shafiq — Sun, 31 Dec 2006 23:21:59 -0600

I'd raise my eyebrow (or at least try), but I've got worse things to get insulted over. I've had people assume I'm older than I am, and that didn't affect anything - it only starts getting problematic if they then act on it.

Honestly? This conversation is starting to get condescending. It's making the assumption that because I'm younger my opinion doesn't really count.

But I'll stop now, because people find different things offensive and there's no use dragging this longer than it should.

Maybe this will help

Mata H — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 18:17:16 -0600

Divabat, it just feels so uncomfortable for a 56 yr. old woman to be called "young lady"-- and even odder to imagine that it is a compliment. If it was a compliment, then that would mean that "young lady" is better than what I am. It is just different, not better.

Imagine if the shoe were on the other foot -- wouldn't you feel it was strange to have a young waiter ask if you would like the Senior Citizen Special?

Take a look at this much shorter thread to get a glimpse of some other thoughts on this topic. I sent folks on that thread here, too.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

All this would be moot if we

Ronni Bennett — Fri, 29 Dec 2006 17:01:22 -0600

All this would be moot if we had not, sometime in the 1960s, lost the social custom of referring to people formally as Mr. Smith, Mrs. Jones and Miss Johnson (or ma'am or sir when the name was unknown) until invited to use a first name by its owner.

Yeah, yeah, I know at about the same time we adopted the very useful Ms. for very good reasons, and it is, obviously, just as applicable.

Nowadays, I've become accustomed to anyone and everyone in business situations calling me Ronni from the get-go instead of Ms. Bennett, but I've never liked it and it feels as demeaning to me as hon and darling. I've also never been comfortable addressing business strangers by their first name without being asked. I do it because when I have emailed or telephoned "Mr. Smith" or "Ms. Jones", it has been made abundantly - and not always politely - clear to me that this is now unacceptable.

Doesn't mean I have to like it, though; it must be a generational difference...

I think there were good reasons for the social rules and greater formality of previous generations that we have lost, leading to all the confusion evinced in this exchange.

Ronni Bennett
Time Goes By

For me, age doesn't come

Tiara Shafiq — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 17:30:39 -0600

For me, age doesn't come into it - it just sounds sweet. Of course a large part of it is the tone of voice - there is a large difference between something said politely and nicely, and something said condescendingly, which I suspect is the main problem.

But I generally find it best to assume things as a compliment...why get worked up? ;)

Divabat - Please know that

Mata H — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:28:40 -0600

Divabat - Please know that when I did say that, I was not snarling -- I was actually smiling very warmly ,as if I were teasing myself. Help me understand, though, what about being called a "girl" or "young lady" at age 56 would seem complimentary to you? Could it be more complimentary at a younger age than it is when I hear it perhaps? Help me understand what I seem to be missing. Seriously, I am listening.

-- Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Wow!

Tiara Shafiq — Thu, 28 Dec 2006 08:14:14 -0600

I didn't realize so many people found this offensive. I find it sweet and endearing and nice. Quite honestly I would find approaches like Mata's (the whole "if you called me 'girl' you most likely can't see" thing) more offensive, because it would seem like insulting a compliment.

different strokes for different folks I guess...

Your silence is your consent

Knights Valley USA — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 16:18:07 -0600

Atena, that's an excellent post. I couldn't agree more.

I'd like to think that in most instances it's an awareness issue with the offenders.

If you express your discontent, then you can walk away knowing you did your part. As you suggest, it doesn't have to be harsh ... to be effective. It doesn't always have to be face-to-face, or immediate ... but, something should be said. Otherwise, you've excused and endorsed their disrespect.

Merry Christmas Atena.

Robert

Knights Valley USA
"The Ultimate Interior"

http://knightsvalleyusa.spaces.live.com/
Website: www.knightsvalleyusa.com
Website: www.oracdecorusa.com
Website: www.castlestoneusa.com

Really interesting perspectives...

Marianne Richmond — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 14:51:03 -0600

and not that I can add much at this point (and I am proscratinating on Xmas duties) but I think a polite "I would prefer or please call me Marianne" for the unintentional works just fine...having said that, I agree wholeheartedly with Atena about silence being consent to the unacceptable, so speaking up is important.

Additionally, some of the not so endearing references ARE cultural, regional, gender specific etc....but as we get older (and we all do regardless of culture, race, gender etc.) we will all be subjected to the kinds of things that Mata mentions and of course worse; sometimes the complete disrespect and disregard for the elderly.

My elderly mother and I frequently laugh when doctors and bankers and other professionals that we might be talking to about her affairs address their questions and explanations to me. Laughing at them, dilutes the effects of what could be hurtful.

There is noting wrong with my mother's cognitive abilities...and I always politely tell them that the decisions are hers. Then they speak in a louder voice to address her...there is also nothing wrong with her hearing; my hearing is much worse than hers.

Marianne Richmond
resonancepartnership

Well, now we have a few

Mata H — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 11:17:24 -0600

Well, now we have a few posts about responding politely when we are insulted by a careless or deliberate phrase of diminishment. Sometimes, that is just dandy. Sometimes it makes it all seem way tooooooo serious. I say to use common sense. There is no sense in swatting a fly with a howitzer, but sometimes making everyone (including the person offending) laugh a little, eases things.

Wait until those of you who are not 50, turn 50 -- then the waiters start saying things like "And what would you young ladies want?" Or you are introduced as being "56 years young". If you think you are offended now, just wait -- there is so much more in store. Sometimes, to get through it all, one just has to laugh, or occasionally get a bit snippy.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Intentionality...

Atena — Sun, 24 Dec 2006 01:13:50 -0600

It's interesting that so many people think that if someone doesn't intend to offend you, that their behavior is automatically excusable.

I always like to give people credit for their good intentions, however, it doesn't really matter a whole lot if someone didn't mean any offense. If they say something offensive, then they ought to know about it. If they meant no offense, that's all the more reason to tell them about it: to help them avoid offending others.

Informing someone that you don't want to be referred to in a particular way doesn't have to be a harsh confrontation. It can be something as simple as "Thank you very much for being so friendly, but I actually prefer not to be called ________. You can call me Atena, though."

There is a power dynamic at work when you call someone a name not of their choosing, whether the participants are aware of it or not, whether they intend it or not. It may relate to age, territory or any number of insecurities. Don't doubt it - naming is powerful, and in the most casual of circumstances, anyone can be made to feel small.

In order to be respectful, we have to be intentional, whomever we may be speaking to. Carelessness (i.e., she says that to everybody) doesn't lead to respect.

I say pick your battles, yes. But also let people know if you find their behavior toward you unacceptable. Your silence is your consent. Just make sure that your comments toward others are as respectful as you would like them to be toward you.

Atena

Assumptions, Biases & Irrational Fantasies

My Life As a Radical Whore/Madonna

I've been honned and called a dizzy dame

Elana Centor — Sat, 23 Dec 2006 23:09:10 -0600

way back in J School my TV news director called me a dizzy dame because I got lost on an assignment I was not amused at the moniker.

As an owner of an agency in the 1980s a young employee who grew up in St. Louis called me hon. He did it once.He never did that again ( we are still in touch and often laugh at my reaction -- he thought I was going to fire him.)

Having said that, I have also been called to task for saying "You guys" during a facilitation that was 90% female-- I offended. I started saying "you guys" when I moved to Minnesota from Virginia because saying "y'all" in Minnesota is about as politically correct as saying "Hon."

I changed the "you guys" to ladies and gentlemen. It felt silly but the audience was happy.

elana
Blogher Contributing Editor,Business&CareersFunnyBusiness

Stopped by to try out the new tag

Knights Valley USA — Sat, 23 Dec 2006 21:54:53 -0600

Elisa: That's sweet ... thank you. I stopped by to try out my new tag ... wanted to try it on ... see how good it fits.

Robert Knight
FoBs
hmmmm. I can think of several things "FoBs" could also stand for! We better not go there ... let's try the longer version ...

Robert Knight
Friend of BlogHer

ok ... it's looking better. :) Good suggestion Elisa. :)

Any other idea's out there?

Knights Valley USA
"The Ultimate Interior"

http://knightsvalleyusa.spaces.live.com/
Website: www.knightsvalleyusa.com
Website: www.oracdecorusa.com
Website: www.castlestoneusa.com

I'm not your honey, darling, sweetheart, dear, ducky, or any other diminutive creature

Melinda Casino — Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:31:11 -0600

Ever been called "honey" or "darling" by a salesperson while out running errands or shopping? You were having a pleasant interaction until they tacked on a condescending honey. It hardly seems worth the trouble saying, "I prefer not to be called that," because your two-minute interaction is probably the last time you'll ever see that stranger, and you risk offending them by responding in this way. Why is such a simple interaction so fraught with pitfalls and difficulties? This essay explores this topic.

It's not an accident, and it ain't so innocent

FemaleScienceProfessor got me thinking about gendered nicknames when she wrote about her dislike of the label "academic starlette":

"I suppose I am being ungrateful, oversensitive, and overanalytical, but what does that mean? Is that one of those 'you're a good female scientist' kinds of comments?"

She has a right to object. It's a perfectly legitimate response to:

a) feel repelled by certain forms of address, and
b) want to change how you are addressed and, by extension, how you are seen.

As FemaleScienceProfessor goes on to say: "I am constantly reminded that I am a 'female scientist' and not a regular scientist like all the men."

So, one of the functions of gender-specific appellations is:

To remind the subject that she is viewed as a gender first, not a person.

Unfortunately, for women this means a step down, for men, a step up.

Consider the equivalent form of address for men used in public contexts: Sir.

This term does not condescend to its subject, nor does it assume an unearned familiarity, nor does it sexualize. If anything, it confers authority. The equivalent term for women, Madam, is seldom used because of its implication of age. Furthermore, it carries a euphemistic taint for a woman who manages a brothel.

You're getting smaller…

The second function of these names is to make the subject smaller and less threatening.

As a commenter points out at FemaleScienceProfessor's blog, the "-ette" in "starlette" is diminutive. It's function is to decrease in size and by association, power, of its subject.

Similarly, terms like honey, dear, and sweetheart serve this function:

To make its subject appear smaller and/or familiar and therefore less threatening.

While sir augments its target, a term like honey stubbornly insists you are afforded less status and respect.

What's not in the dictionary

Words carry histories. These histories expand the meaning of words, making them larger than their rudimentary selves. "Honey", for example, carries with it meaning that extends beyond its rudimentary definition of "term of endearment".

"Honey", "dear", and similar terms are also employed in a passive-aggressive way; I'm sure we've all witnessed this or been on the receiving end. And, as passive-aggressive as it is, it does provide a satisfying outlet for many men (and women) who choose to use it this way. For women there is no similar option, no sarcastically spat "gent".

No expression for dissent

There exists no way to politely issue a rejection of these names. And that makes it worse.

Think of the short, useful phrase, excuse me. It's a flexible, brief and above all, neutral phrase that is appropriate in many contexts. It is understood as a neutral address which nobody takes personally when they're on the receiving end.

A short, utilitarian phrase such as "excuse me" needs to be invented for those circumstances where someone tries to "honey" you and you want to let them know you don't want to be addressed that way.

The absence of a socially approved script for declining "dear", "honey", "sweetheart", and other gender-specific names, points to a gross power imbalance.

Nothing personal—it's just not for me.

Now, why would someone take it personally when their "dear" is refused? If anything, the "term of endearment" is inappropriate—logically, wouldn't the person on the receiving end have more of a right to object?

The answer is very simple: because a rejection of the name is also a rejection of traditional way of seeing women. You're not only rejecting the word, you're shaking up the gender status quo. This can be very threatening to people. In effect, you're saying, "I don't like the way you're condescending to me, and I'm refusing your old-fashioned ideas about me based on my gender."

Conclusion

These are old-fashioned words, and wrapped up in these old-fashioned words are old-fashioned notions about women and gender. The power dynamics driving this custom are antithetical to promoting an egalitarian society.

Let's dump these asinine names into the trash.

Contributing Editor Melinda Casino also writes at Sour Duck.

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