BlogHer - Considering Hardaway's antigay comments, what makes an intolerant child? - Comments

Wonderful post & comments

LizaWasHere — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 16:05:44 -0600

I'm going to have those South Pacific lyrics running through my head all night, I can tell.

Nelle, I think your point about arrogance is so interesting!

I also think that viciousrumors and Lisa raised great points about how important it is that we talk with our children about what we believe, about being accepting and supportive of all different kinds of people. And how smart kids can be about how stupid "society" can be. :)

If anyone is interested in showing their support/acceptance for gay & lesbian families, I invite you to put up a "Friend of the Family" button on your blog:

There are smaller buttons and buttons for "family members" as well. :)

Liza
Founder & Coordinator, Link TextLesbianFamily.org
Personal Blog, Link TextLizaWasHere

Until just recently I never

viciousrumours — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 03:47:36 -0600

Until just recently I never really thought about how my chidren had learned to be so accepting. I've always just taught by example I guess.

When my daughter was six, her best friend came from a mixed family. My daughter came home one day and asked me what a *insert the "N" word here* was. My jaw hit the floor. I asked her where she had heard the word and she said that someone at school had asked her why she was playing with a "N". I sighed, sat my daughter down, and as gently as I could explained to her that some people don't like other people because they have different color skin, or speak or act differently. My child amazed me then...she shook her head, looked me in the eye and said, "That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard."

She's 13 now and still has a hard time understanding why people can't just like each other. I agree that intolerance and hatred are learned, but at what age? And do all children learn it? I myself come from a VERY Southern, VERY prejudice family. I never understood it and endured years of bitterness from my own family because I had friends of different backgrounds. So do all children learn to be intolerant, or are some of us more predisposed to it than others?

This subject is one of the reasons I started studying sociology. Thanks for this great, thought provoking post!

I'm just wondering about all

nelle2nelle — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 17:28:23 -0600

I'm just wondering about all those out there who are rebuking Hardaway for his statements.Who are you really, and does it feel good to point at someone else who was stupid enough to share his true feeling with the world despite being a public figure and even a role model to some.

Who am I? Guess the only way you will determine that is by either asking, though I wonder if your question was more rhetorical in nature, and perhaps by reading some of what is on my blog. Even then it is but a snippet of my life, what I've chosen to share.

I've fallen pretty hard because of my gender issues. I hurt a lot of people because of the issues and the fall, some of which I can never, ever rectify. I carry this guilt with me each and every waking moment of my life, and it haunts me in my sleep. The only thing I could do, and did do... was work to rebuild my life in a good way. Those that know me know this is almost an obsession for me now.

So you can take it to the bank my comments about Hardiway and what he said is not spoken from some self assigned altruistic perch.

His words are his words. If Tim finds why it was met with uproar, and as he learns from this experience, I'm right there with him in moving on and trying to live a better life... but he chose to comment publicly, and thus placed his comments out here for rebuttal - just as I do now.

I will stand by the comments on parenting, because no child is born with these attitudes. Children are accepting, and they learn to not accept, to put down others for their differences, because of what they see around them. In turn, putting down those who are different is rooted in insecurity and ignorance, including trying to feel more a part of another group by deflecting the put downs upon others in a putting them down deflects attention from me sort of way.

That this sort of thing persists is not reason to throw up hands and just say whatever. We can do better, and the only way we can starts with acknowledging the problem and setting out for improvement.

I'll put my money on improvement if we all make an effort to lose the prejudices we all carry, and to address them head on through proactively educating our children - much like how comprehensive sex ed beats abstinence only - about what is out there and how to not succumb to prejudice.

If you wish to assume the responders here are your enemy, we've a long way to go. You are nothing of the sort to me.

nelle

Having my say

sailism — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:16:02 -0600

I'm just wondering about all those out there who are rebuking Hardaway for his statements.Who are you really, and does it feel good to point at someone else who was stupid enough to share his true feeling with the world despite being a public figure and even a role model to some.
I now know where Isaiah( I've already posted on greys anatomy) and Tim are coming from but the rest of the smile in your face people who's actions speak louder than their words scare me.I need to know who my enemies are as the saying goes "keep you friends close and enemies closer".
I see lip service being given the issue but who really cares strongly enough for black males in order to see where this open disstain comes from in that community.

The "f" and "n" words are tossed around with many meaning in black circles. In some sort of strange dysfunction negatives stand right next to positives like oil and vinegar mixing and then separating.While my personal convictions leave me not using either term I'm not naive enough to believe anything is going to change.In fact if I add bulldagger which has roots and strong ones in our village it can open a whole other can of worms.
So we can raise our kids to be tolerant of others but it is then their responsibility as grown men and women to embrace it or except other points of view.
Hatred is an evil word and an even worst place to reside. One can not love themselves if they hate others period.It is mentally unhealthy as energy wasted on negatives ruins your spirit and poisons your soul.Its a shame that Hardaway will found his pocket being lighter as an incentive to apologize but this is a reality.I'll let him sort his own demons out as I have no need to judge him or the manhood he feels in need of protecting or proving.
What troubles me was I didn't see where the NAACP made any type of statement but just change his gay word to black and have a white guy saying it... Also where were members of the black church calling for him to be accountable for that type of lashing out.I'm not focusing on the black bashing media or anyone else for a reason.
Sakia gunn died in our community and a gay brother in Atlanta was beaten viciously at one of our HBCU's.The black church has been slow to embrace or acknowledge the multitude of glbt people within it ranks. It is that fear that has lead many a person especially black women into an aids crisis, because it was supposed to be gay problem or at least punishment. As long as institutions in the community continue to ignore and not reach out to those of us in the community that are deemed not truly afrocentric, I'm not holding Hardaway and Washington any more accountable than I do the rest of the grand standers.
I will continue to call them all out 365 because I know if I don't, the feel gooders who ask where is the parenting or who has let this behavior continue might just keep missing the real issue.Which in my humble opinion is do you live the word or preach it,the legacy we leave for future generations are built on that foundation .

Absolutely... when

nelle2nelle — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 11:27:39 -0600

Absolutely... when minorities fight amongst each other, energy is taken away from the effort to move forward.

Just saw this in the The Boston Globe:

As the firestorm continued over Tim Hardaway's antigay remarks on radio, the mayor of North Miami, who is gay, invited the ex-Heat star to spend a day with him. "We're just trying to show him that there are living, breathing people that just happen to be gay," said North Miami Mayor Kevin Burns, who lives with his partner of 23 years and an adopted daughter. Hardaway has been hit hard since the broadcast on a local AM radio station, in which he said, "I don't like to be around gay people" and "it shouldn't be in the US or the world." Although he apologized within hours, the NBA canceled his remaining appearances at this weekend's All-Star festivities in Las Vegas, and he lost at least two major endorsement deals.

nelle

Saw John Amaechi on Bill Maher this weekend...

Elisa Camahort — Sun, 18 Feb 2007 09:32:28 -0600

Speaking of this, we watched Bill Maher this weekend and one of his guests was John Amaechi. Made me want to go out and buy his book...he was so articulate and rational.

He also spoke to the issue of homophobia in the black community and asked a provocative question: who gains when two minority groups are pitted against one another? Not the minority groups.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
elisa@blogher.org/elisa@workerbees.biz

You're welcome.

Nordette — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:39:22 -0600

Thank you, Lisa. I'd been toying around with writing about teaching your children tolerance, but kept putting it off because it has so many angles. You should see how many drafts I went through. :-) I realized I can leave out some information because BlogHer.org has intelligent readers who will bring up the points I leave out and others I havenâ€™t even considered.

As for your son, itâ€™s wonderful that you addressed these attitudes with him. Often parents talk to their children about so and so being a bad influence when those friends are doing drugs or stealing, but I wonder how many discuss with their children the bad influence of a bigot. If a child doesn't learn bigotry from a parent, but exhibits the tendency, then the parent should find out where that child engages such a mindset and also recognize that their silence on the subject may suggest to the child agreement with such a mindset. Sometimes I think parents don't follow up because they want their children to be popular as much as the child wants to be popular and believe sometimes bigotry isn't "all that bad."

I've also heard about children using the word "gay" as an insult. It disturbed me and shows that we're still raising children who may grow up to perpetuate the negatives of our society. When I first heard about children believing that they can insult other children by calling them "gay," I asked my son about it. He was aware of students doing this, but he doesn't practice it. Then again he doesn't practice calling others names period. He calls the other kids who do so "mean." I hope he keeps this mentality.

We should understand that some of these children using the word "gay" as an insult don't know what it means. However, that they perceive it as something negative will carry over into adulthood if parents and the education system don't address it.

"Love is liquid. Be drunkards!" ~~Nordette

You are right, one cannot

nelle2nelle — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:30:03 -0600

You are right, one cannot force someone to learn, but a lot of this attitude is embedded, blindly past down from generation to generation, without much contemplation.

When we begin to actively educate people, most reasonable come around. This in turn changes the critical mass of outlook, rendering those who cling tightly to prejudice to the periphery of societal opinion. They begin to back away from sharing it openly, thus further reducing the influence upon others.

Right now people stand and openly condemn gays as sinners, perverts, etc. It really is rather astounding for this longtime supporter of rights, equality, etc to witness such expression. We will have really gained something when these openly expressed prejudicesbecome taboo in the eyes of society.

nelle

Thank you for this post

Nordette — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:11:06 -0600

Yes, it is still relevant and that's sad; however, that it's still relevant probably tells us that this ugliness is part of human nature that may be redirected and changed, but for some reason is not being changed fast enough. We have to ask ourselves what is progress? We're going like gangbusters in technology, but continue to lag in character development.

I really appreciate your reminding us of this message poem. The last stanza is particularly provocative.

"Love is liquid. Be drunkards!" ~~Nordette

Washington's already played a gay character

Nordette — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:05:11 -0600

With Washington, some suggested having him play a gay character, but... I'd rather see him play a homophobe. Let him put his outlook out there for their audience, let him portray what exists out here. And let the discussion be had.

Those who suggested that Washington play a gay character must've been unfamiliar with his work. This actor is not new to the scene.

One of the reasons I don't believe Washington is homophobic is that a phobia is a strong, often irrational fear, of a place, person, activity, or thing. Washington played a gay character in Spike Lee's Get on the Bus. If he actually had a strong fear of gay people, I don't think he could've played that role. The fear that he himself would be called gay and his discomfort in showing affection to a male lover, despite it being acting, would've been too strong.

As quoted from the post, which I know is way long, :-), Washington's already done that. He played a gay male who was on the bus with other black males in Spike Lee's movie "Get on the Bus." I think his character actually ended up in a physical fight with a man who was homophobic. Was he fighting his true self? Or maybe he's not a very good actor and doesn't get into his character's heads. Maybe he's more a mimic. I don't know.

Nevertheless, I do think you may be onto something suggesting he actually play the role of someone who's homophobic. Perhaps, if he did more than mimic, it would let him get into his own head about why he thinks using the "f" word would demean someone and why if when he can't stand ground in an argument he resorts to childish name calling.

My mother used to say, "Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his moccasins." I've been told it's a Native American proverb, but its source may be elsewhere. Nevertheless, what can be said about Washington? As an African-American male, he's undoubtedly walked all his life in the moccasins of someone who's been the victim of name calling and had people think he's inferior for whatever reason. Perhaps he's one of those people who identifies the abusive as powerful and so wants to be associated with them instead of to seek the path of justice.

If homophobia is cured by education, then, I think his problem is something bigger than being homophobic. I don't see how an intelligent man in the acting profession could survive as long as he has and not be educated already about the nature of homophobia. (This is not to say that education or sensitivity training is not the answer for most people.) I think it's he believes he's superior to homosexuals the same way some racist remain racist even after sensitivity training. In order to learn something you have to want to learn it. Education at his age won't change his attitude much if he really believes as some do that people are wrong who try to change his mind. His problem is psychological and spiritual. Perhaps being ostracized by his peers for his attitudes will help him.

Part of Washington's problem is probably in how he was raised. Many people in the African-American community have some level of homophobia. I wrote a piece on talk show host Lisa Durden for publication in a black newspaper in Newark, NJ. They rejected the piece and told me that while it was well written, it wasn't their cup of tea. My gut instinct is that they especially didn't like one of Lisa's quotes about Christians not accepting their own children who are homosexual. I posted it on a website that has a strong contingent of people who are religiously conservative. The piece went a long time with no comments.

On an intolerant child, look to parents, look to society. A child is not born intolerant.

I agree! I do think raising children to be accepting, compassionate, empathetic, and humble will go a much longer way to changing society and result in harmony. When we hear our children or see our children going counter to these values, then we should correct them just as we would if we caught them in a lie. As parents we need to examine ourselves because our children may be reflecting our own negativity.

"Love is liquid. Be drunkards!" ~~Nordette

Nice post... that the

nelle2nelle — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:29:43 -0600

Nice post...

that the discussion is had is most important. That parents start to see what they unwittingly pass on to children is vital.

Kids will take what parents say as truth, and they will throw it at others different. Which means we have to do a better job of teaching the value and beauty of diversity, in a more abstract, open ended way.
nelle

Yup... I usually comment on

nelle2nelle — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:25:51 -0600

Yup... I usually comment on intolerance, favouring acceptance and understanding. Intolerance tends to imply power and ability to affirm or deny something to another.

nelle

It was ever thus...

Elisa Camahort — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:23:17 -0600

"On an intolerant child, look to parents, look to society. A child is not born intolerant."

I'm reminded of Oscar Hammerstein's lyrics from South Pacific, which were incredibly daring for their time (1949.)

"You've got to be taught to hate and fear,
You've got to be taught from year to year,
It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!"

Sad part is: it still sounds relevant almost 60 years later.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
elisa@blogher.org/elisa@workerbees.biz

Amen Nelle

Lisa Stone — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:10:19 -0600

On an intolerant child, look to parents, look to society. A child is not born intolerant.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

I've always hated the word "tolerance"

mia3mom — Sat, 17 Feb 2007 10:09:24 -0600

When I was younger, my minister gave a sermon about tolerance vs acceptance. It was fabulous and incredibly thought-provoking. I haven't thought the same way about the word "tolerance" since. I teach my children about acceptance of others. They have their own differences, and they need to accept other people's differences, too.

I love your use of humility - that's a good lesson, too. And one I need to work on with them.

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Considering Hardaway's antigay comments, what makes an intolerant child?

Nordette — Fri, 16 Feb 2007 23:36:42 -0600

Former Miami Heat guard Tim Hardaway said on a radio show Wednesday afternoon that he would not want a gay player on his team.

"You know, I hate gay people, so I let it be known," Hardaway said.

"I don't like gay people and I don't like to be around gay people. I am homophobic. I don't like it. It shouldn't be in the world or in the United States." (Quote and photo from ESPN)

The NBA took action against Hardaway. He's been banned from the NBA's All-Stars game weekend festivities. The ban indicates progress toward tolerance of homosexuality in professional sports, but is intolerance the root cause of demeaning others?

Tolerance is defined in The American Heritage Dictionary as "a fair, objective, and permissive attitude toward those whose opinions, practices, race, religion, nationality, etc., differ from one's own; freedom from bigotry." Tolerance is a fairly new buzz word in society. I think a better lesson, an older lesson to teach a child, before the teaching of tolerance, is to teach humility, or not to be arrogant.

Arrogance is defined in the same dictionary as the "offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride." The nature of the arrogant is to be unfair to others, to not practice tolerance, because to treat others fairly is to treat them as equals. If someone assumes he/she is superior to you, how can that person treat you as an equal?

Each year we have celebrities undergoing trial by media because they've said something to offend some segment of the population. Last year we had Mel Gibson's drunken rant against Jewish people, Michael Richards and the "n" word, and Isaiah Washington and the "f" word. This year we have Hardaway with "I hate gay people."

Let's consider the Grey's Anatomy actor Isaiah Washington and his use of the "f" word to demean his gay co-worker. People called Washington homophobic, wanted him trained for tolerance. I don't think homophobia is Washington's problem, and so ask what good will lessons in tolerance do Washington? I think all that posturing was a show to let society know Washington's type of rhetoric should not and will no longer be tolerated. That society is shifting to be intolerant of those who demean gay people.

One of the reasons I don't believe Washington is homophobic is that a phobia is a strong, often irrational fear, of a place, person, activity, or thing. Washington played a gay character in Spike Lee's Get on the Bus. If he actually had a strong fear of gay people, I don't think he could've played that role. The fear that he himself would be called gay and his discomfort in showing affection to a male lover, despite it being acting, would've been too strong.

I think Washington's problem is that he thinks whatever he may be, he is better than gay people, and so when he wanted to deliver what he felt would be a cutting insult to his co-worker he used the "f" word. I also think that Washington is already about as tolerant of gay people as he's going to be. He normally works with gay people without incident; so he "tolerates" gay people the same way that some white people tolerate African-Americans. They'll work around them, perhaps even socialize lightly, but not more so if they can help it.

From now on, Isaiah Washington will practice politically correct tolerance, give lip service to the concept, and he'll have the good sense not to vocalize his true feelings about homosexuality. Would it be different if Washington believed in the importance of humility?

If Washington practiced humility and honestly believed he was not superior to anyone else, he'd not indulge arrogance and use demeaning speech against others. He wouldn't do it because he'd believe others were not simply different but that they were intrinsically his equal and should be treated with respect.

Case in point, we don't want men to believe simply that men should be tolerant of women. We want men to believe that women are their equals. On the job, men who believe women are their equals are unlikely to belittle them or assume they deserve less than their male counterparts. In a heterosexual romantic relationship, a man who believes his female partner is his equal is unlikely to become abusive even when love fades. You honestly can't believe that someone is your equal but also think you are intrinsically superior.

Hardaway's comments are different from Washington's insult. Hardaway wasn't having a personal argument with anyone when he said what he said. He was doing an interview. He may have been trying to shame John Amaechi, a pro basketball player who recently announced he's gay, but Amaechi wasn't present.

Hardaway admits he's homophobic, and I believe he is indeed. Sounds like he has some irrational fear. The key is that he doesn't want to be around gay people, thinks they shouldn't be allowed to live in America or even the world. In some way Hardaway feels threatened by the existence of homosexuals. He's afraid of homosexuals, homophobic.

Big, strapping man that he is, if I were to break it down to him that to be homophobic means that he's afraid of gay people, he'd probably deny it. He likes that word "homophobic" though because he probably doesn't associate it with being a coward. He probably thinks that to be homophobic is to be an all-American, red-blooded, heterosexual male. He probably thinks it means he's a "real" man, a tough guy.

Whatever Hardaway thinks homophobic means, some sessions with a psychotherapist or at least daily introspection to determine his inner dysfunction regarding gay people would probably do his mental health some good. A psychologist might argue that his homophobia is rooted in fear that he himself is homosexual. I'd still say he fears it because he thinks that to be homosexual is to be inferior. Hardaway's attitude is indicates arrogance. Whatever he is, he believes that to be that way is better than being homosexual.

I'm not going to examine the words of all the public figures we've heard say nasty things about other groups, but I will say that if you consider the cases you personally recall, you'll probably notice a pattern. To call it hate and intolerance, while such classifications may be true, is to not look at the root cause. In cases of people who "hate" Jewish people or black people, Arab people, Asian people, or Mexican people, all those "other" people, even those who demean the obese, listen to their speech. It boils down to their thinking that they are better than those "other" people. It's arrogance.

I use these examples and target arrogance because I think that if we raise our children to think they are inherently better than others, then we are raising arrogant people who will perpetuate injustice. Arrogant people think they are better than others and so practice elitism or classism, racism, antisemitism, and other behaviors that belittle others. They find their own value in devaluing others. This is not the same as having self-confidence and having good self-esteem, and this blog would get far too long if I started explaining the difference.

So, I guess what I'm saying is the following: The arrogant believe that they deserve to be treated better than others and that results in their treating others like lesser human beings. They can't practice the golden rule "to treat others as you want to be treated" because to do so suggests the other people are their equals.

I could go into lots of psychobabble about how in reality such people probably have an inferiority complex, but I won't because I'm not convinced that's always the case. I think that some people honestly believe they are inherently better than others and so deserve more than others, more everything, more love, more money, more respect, more rights. These are traits established in childhood. So ask yourself, "Are you rasing this child?"

Nordette Adams is a published fiction writer, journalist, poet, and blogger. You can read a poem a poem she wrote years ago about arrogance at this link.