BlogHer - Hating Hate Speech: Safety for Kathy Sierra and all women online - Comments

I'm appauled!

christinajeanne — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 21:53:43 -0500

I'm appauled by the behavioir of these people that attack others! I have had some experinces some rude comments but never like what you are talking about it. it's crazy cyber bullying can go way too far. It shouldn't happen to begin with. I truly belive something needs to be done about this. It is not ok.

Too bizarre

alyssaroyse — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 13:59:25 -0500

I just posted a BlogHer Blog about my current death and rape threats on my blog, and just found the Kathy Sierra story. Personally, I'm horrified, but feel the need to "go in." So I am.

But I'm going through this right now, nearly 200 angry bloggers calling for my death and rape. Why? I didn't like the new batman movie. :)

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: A Web Site To Save The World

Start Her Up: A Blog for Women Entrepreneurs

I will say this until my

Dana Loesch — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 12:41:20 -0500

I will say this until my head explodes: there is criticism and there is simply behaving like an ass. Big difference. Those who cannot distinguish between the two should do everyone a favor and STAY OFFLINE.

I am amazed that there are people with the time to sit around and create forums where all they do is personally attack others. That's not a blogger/writer/or artist in my opinion. It's cheap. It's a knock-off. Real artists create and contribute, not descontruct.

Dana
Mamalogues.com
In the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Pop Mama
Since Eve

Sunshine stops bullying

Silly Valley — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 11:12:54 -0500

Bullies operate best when they are anonymous. To me, this means the "solution" to cyberbullying is to identify the individual who is doing the bullying. Obviously much easier said than done, but the other truth about bullies is that they are not unusually bright and can be identified by a variety of social engineering means that have nothing to do with IP tracking.

I was bullied as a girl, and feel the effects of it in my life today. I'm sensitive to criticism, sometimes feel its difficult to "belong" with people. The cruel words and actions of bullies are truly damaging.

So here's how I respond to people online who act in any one of many of a spectrum of ways I don't like or appreciate, on boards, email lists, etc.:

-- Ignore. Always the first line of defense, usually sufficient in most cases.
-- Innoculate. Make sure I understand the difference between what is being said and what is true about me.
-- Insulate. Recruit help for my point of view if it's a flame war, make sure others know I'm feeling uncomfortable if that's what is happening. Withdraw from the frey for a while if necessary.
-- Illuminate. Make sure attacker is known, if at all possible. Identify him/her, publish that information. Don't hide. Bullies and bullshit both thrive in the dark.

Kristine, who hasn't had to go farther than the above.
http://mysillyvalley.typepad.com

Responding a week late...

nelle2nelle — Sun, 01 Apr 2007 09:31:24 -0500

I'm totally flabbergasted by this issue.

I've seen it in the realm of message boards, playing on a feminist board is ground zero for misogynistic folk who hide behind internet anonymity and lash out. I've long wondered the danger they pose away from cyber space, and the very thought sends chills up my back.

My blog is nowhere near as active as most, it's not really why I blog... but I've had one poster recently follow me off that feminist board. So far he has behaved, but I'm uncomfortable, because that is his usual pattern (he was banned multiple times by the iVillage, including for attacking me there with comments, though nothing was of a threat.)

Recently I resigned as co-host of the political debate board there, one poster was starting thread after thread attacking Islam and all Muslims. I pleaded with iV to do something to end this persecution, and they responded by pulling my requests for him to stop. Sorry, I cannot in good conscience be a part of that, and stepped down.

Returning to the feminist board, it is a magnet for every guy who perceives he was slighted in divorce, by someone he might have dated, in child support and custody arrangements, etc. The level of bitternes they carry astounds, and refuse to consider an alternate view, or that courts are most often fair and try to get it right, or as right as they can legally make it.

None of this will shut me up, nor stop me from writing what is on my mind. It won't stop me from participating in discussions away from cyberspace, or from attending anything that interests me. It just stinks that some choose to expend energy attacking others, a sure sign of insecurity and a corresponding need for control over others. A very bad combination.

*hugs* to all who have been threatened or attacked.

nelle

Responsibility

Elaine of Kalilily — Sat, 31 Mar 2007 23:46:53 -0500

"...by creating the forum, they've become responsible."

I know Jeneane and Frank as well, and, while I know that they would never condone the attacks on Kathy, they nevertheless go along with and support many of Chris Locke's zany ideas -- some of which, and meankids is a good example, get hateful and nasty because of the tone they set at the beginning.

I've blogged about my own experience several years ago dealing with an attack by Chri Locke. You can read it here:
http://www.kalilily.net/weblog/07/03/30/233658.html

Chris is looked up to by many bloggers, and there are some who consider him a friend. It seems to me that, since he is so well-known in the blogging community for his innovation and creativity, he has a responsibility to blog ethically and responsibly, and his friends might want to consider urging him to clean up his long-standing act of targetting females for his own brand of fun and games.

And the rest of us need to call him on any of his future offensive projects. Maybe eventually he'll get the message that we don't think personal attacks are funny.

I neither personally

Melissa Summers — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 20:42:38 -0500

I neither personally attacked you nor bullied you. I pointed out specific things you've said which point out personal attacks you have made.

Please explain how that is cyberbullying. Perhaps I'm unclear. I thought attacking someone personally was the problem, I mean, based on your definition.

Need I say more?

margalit — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 19:17:31 -0500

Cyberbullying right here on our stage. What a great example. Thanks, Melissa. You have proven my point.

Forgive me for a moment.

Melissa Summers — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 12:40:16 -0500

You'll forgive me for finding this post amusing. I have mainly ignored you Margalit since you took to using my comments section to call other bloggers names and I blocked you because of it.

But this, this is rich.

"You can disagree with issues all you want, but when you start focussing on the person themselves, that's going over the line."

Please see this for explanation:
http://clickmom.typepad.com/weblog/2007/01/drinking_thing_.html#comment-...

"She constantly posts about her weight and her looks, and man, after seeing her on TV, all I can say is, focus more on getting dental work and less on how cute (not) her hair was. The boots looked like they came straight from Payless and her clothes were too tight. She looked like a midwestern matron, one that probably DOES drink too much."

Uh, were my teeth part of the issue? And my tight clothes? And here I thought the issue was drinking at playgroup.

"Disagreeing with content does not equal a personal attack, and unfortunately, there are plenty of people on the 'net that don't get that distinction."

Unfortunately, there are plenty of people like yourself who don't even realize when their disagreement or criticism is venturing into a personal attack.

Thankfully people like you are easily ignored.

I blogged about cyberbullying today

margalit — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 11:58:46 -0500

I think it's important to note that cyberbullying goes on all over the 'net and not just in the blogosphere. It's very easy to post anonymously to a forum and skewer other forum participants as 'entertainment'. Trolls are everywhere, and as long as we allow free commenting (I don't on my blog), they'll be waiting for you. Trolls think this is fun, but the deeper reason for this trollish behavior is that they don't like themselves and feel powerful picking on someone else.

Which brings me to the cyberbullying that is done by 'popular' bloggers, who urge their friends to attack psople they don't agree with. This 'circle the wagons' type of behavior is dangerous and damaging, and if you think it isn't done by Blogher members, then you're wrong. It does.

We all need to learn how to determine the difference between content and personality. Disagreeing with content does not equal a personal attack, and unfortunately, there are plenty of people on the 'net that don't get that distinction. Until it is more widely understood, cyberbullying will continue unabated.

More at What was I THINING?

Delete, ignore, deny

maki — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:20:02 -0500

I never thought I'd be agreeing with Michelle Malkin! But I do, in this case. And with Elise also.

Being Asian, and female, seems to be a red flag for some people to go to town with their uh, opinions. It's one reason I've turned on moderation on both my main blogs. I'd rather not make it an issue or a fuss. Deleting messages is easy, and once deleted I don't even remember what they say. My real readers don't deserve to be subjected to crap either, even temporarily.

And, not to be a web blanket, but I doubt that a day against cyberbullying or whatever is not going to have much effect on the little weasels who like to anonymously attack people from the safety of their homes, regardless. They have been around before (my first brush with harassment online came on the Compuserve forums in the mid-'80s), and I'm sure they'll be around when the next form of online exchange is invented.

Makiko Itoh
Just Hungry
Personal.

People commonly use the

Cate from Sweetnicks — Fri, 30 Mar 2007 07:10:53 -0500

People commonly use the internet to hide - whether it's a blogger posting anonymously or someone threatening someone else. Too often, people forget that while you cannot see them, there are still real people involved. If it's not something I would say to someone standing in front of me, then it's not something I would say in a comment, e-mail, etc. That said, everyone needs to protect themselves when things get out of control, and hopefully the field of policing activities on the internet has gotten considerably tighter to put a stop to things like this.

Michelle Malkin on the subject

Elise Bauer — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 22:42:46 -0500

(Via Doc Searls) Just read conservative political blogger Michelle Malkin's post on cyber death threats. Apparently she's been getting them for quite some time. Just as nasty as the one that Kathy reported. Michelle's response?

1) Report the serious threats to law enforcement.

2) Keep blogging.

For the record, I receive threatening comments, similar to Kathy's. Not often. Maybe only twice in the few months. I delete them as soon as I read the words, "fuck off" or "cum down your..." I never give them another thought.

Elise Bauer
Simply Recipes
Learning Movable Type

Allen Harrell (The Head Lemur) a victim too, not a perpetrator

lizditz — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 14:23:01 -0500

Liz Ditz
I Speak of Dreams
lizditz@gmail.com

Kathy Sierra used images and words purporting to be Allan Harrell's as part of her post illustrating the heinousness of what was posted at MeanKids/UncleBobism. She did not question that the posts were Harrell's.

According to an email Harrel sent Doc Searles, Allen Harrel is also a victim:
Email from Allen Harrell to Doc Searles

"I am writing this to you as the guy who can forward it to everybody that matters.

I am writing this from a new computer, using an email address that will be deleted at the end of this.

I am no longer me. My main machine despite my best efforts has been hacked, my accounts compromised including my email. and has been disconnected from the internet.

How did this happen? When did this happen? ..... I thought i was pretty sharp. I guess not.

just about every online account that i have has been compromised. Most importantly my digital identity and user/password for typepad and wordpress. I have been doing damage control, for my clients. How the fuck i got to be part of this mess is revolting.

The Kathy Sierra mess is horrific. I am not who ever used my identity and my picture!!

I am sick beyond words over this whole episode. Kathy Sierra may not be on my top 10 list , but nobody deserves this filthy character assaination.

[snip]

For Kathy and Maryam and anybody else I am deeply sorry. Nobody deserves this."

I think it is important to close the loop. Harrell's reputation has been ruined by a cyberthief, and Sierra's actions contributed to the damage done to Harrell.

Bill, great analogy

Lisa Stone — Thu, 29 Mar 2007 00:41:52 -0500

I see this a lot IRL in NYC, because owners of stores will allow their signs to have letters that don't light up anymore, or even fall off of the front of the store completely. Apparently, as long as they're making a profit, they don't actually care what happens to the store.

Without personal investment in a site, it will become whatever people choose to make it. If no one's willing (or interested) to say "come on... that's too much" or "that's not our style, here", what's been created is a barren wasteland where anything goes.

I've always loved analogies that compare online space with material space. This, I think, is why I fell in love with the late (great) Michael Dertouzas' "The Unfinished Revolution." When Dertouzas opens by comparing the Internet to a Greek marketplace, he's got me.

I agree -- I behave differently in someone's living room, cocktail party or even garage sale than I do on an empty lot, a no (wo)man's land... this is great food for thought.

Lisa Stone
BlogHer Co-founder
Surfette

Hating Hate Speech: Safety for Kathy Sierra and all women online

Lisa Stone — Tue, 27 Mar 2007 03:47:22 -0500

Resource for action: What do you do when you're cyberstalked, taunted or abused online?

I spent most of today offline at UC Berkeley, where I gave a talk to journalists from newspaper and television newsrooms on the value of participating in social media. I extolled the value of user comments and the quality of conversation on BlogHer and in the blogosphere.

Ironically, I then came home to an RSS reader and emails pointing to this post by Kathy Sierra:

Death threats against bloggers are NOT "protected speech" (why I cancelled my ETech presentations)
"As I type this, I am supposed to be in San Diego, delivering a workshop at the ETech conference. But I'm not. I'm at home, with the doors locked, terrified. For the last four weeks, I've been getting death threat comments on this blog. But that's not what pushed me over the edge. What finally did it was some disturbing threats of violence and sex posted on two other blogs... blogs authored and/or owned by a group that includes prominent bloggers. People you've probably heard of..."

I'm writing tonight to respond to Kathy's post and the many other writings I've read reacting to her news. There's a lot to say, but for now I'm going to limit myself to the topics of hate speech and personal responsibility, on BlogHer.org and on the Internet. Here goes:

1. Hate speech - on the Internet and on BlogHer

The hate speech aimed at Kathy makes me sick. I am appalled by her experience and moved by her post. And I am sorry to confirm what many women online already know: Kathy Sierra is, literally, one among countless women assaulted like this online. I have no idea how many women have emailed and telephoned me about attacks via IM, IRC chat, message boards, email and blog comments. These attacks use language that describes detailed rape, dismemberment, profanity and indescribably sick images. The goal? Abuse and humiliation of women.

These assaults are happening to women blogging in every corner of the Internet -- food bloggers, political bloggers, feminist bloggers, tech bloggers, entertainment bloggers and -- perhaps especially -- mommybloggers. The only predictor I have observed is that the more famous the blogger (and/or blogger's spouse), the more lesbian, and/or the more not-white, the more vicious her attackers. Denise knows the score.

Kathy (whom I've never met in person but read regularly) provides details on and links to the threats made against her. She describes a frightening image of a noose near her head, and provides a copy of another image altered so that Kathy appears to be screaming into a pair of underwear on her head. These threats are legally actionable and, indeed, Kathy reports that she has filed a police report. Filing that report, however, does not make her feel safe. Rather than earn her living as an expert, she writes that she has decided to stay at home.

Hate speech is forbidden on BlogHer -- we designed our community guidelines to ban hate speech, and every member of the community has the right (and the responsibility, but I'll get to that below) to report this behavior. In the rare instances that such comments have made it past our registration process and spam filter, we have deleted them immediately. We crafted our community guidelines in order to give ourselves permission to do just that:

An excerpt from the BlogHer Community Guidelines
We have just two rules: We embrace the spirit of civil disagreement and we decline to publish unacceptable content. Specifically:
* BlogHer embraces the spirit of civil disagreement. As a Web site devoted to creating an opportunity for all kinds of women bloggers and their friends to seek greater exposure, education and community, we agree to agree and to disagree-as strongly as need be-without crossing the boundaries into unacceptable content (see below).
* BlogHer declines to publish unacceptable content. Everything published on the BlogHer Network is content: Your posts, comments, forum messages, poll responses, audio, video, text, images, you name it. We embrace your diversity of opinions and values(see above) but we insist that your content may not include anything unacceptable. We define unacceptable content as anything included or linked that is:
o Being used to abuse, harass, stalk or threaten a person or persons....read entire BlogHer Community Guidelines

2. Personal responsibility - on the Internet and on BlogHer

These community guidelines didn't happen by accident. I drafted them as a cornerstone for the kind of environment Elisa, Jory and I wanted to join online and offer to other people. Everyone who registers with BlogHer agrees to participate according to these guidelines -- including our esteemed editors. I mention our editors specifically, because Kathy highlights BlogHer Contributing Editor Jeneane Sessum twice in relation to these awful posts. First Kathy mentions Jeneane as a contributor to one of the blogs where the noose image appeared. Second, she makes a more personal statement about Jeneane's involvement:

"I do not want to be part of a culture where this is done not by some random person, but by some of the most respected people in the tech blogging world. People linked to by A-listers like Doc Searls, a co-author of Chris Locke. I do not want to be part of a culture of such hypocrisy where Jeneane Sessum can be a prominent member of blogher, a speaker at industry conferences, an outspoken advocate for women's rights, and at the same time celebrate and encourage a site like meankids -- where objectification of women is taken to a level that makes plain old porn seem quaintly sweet..."

Since Kathy invoked Jeneane's involvement in BlogHer, I called Jeneane and spoke with her tonight via telephone. She told me, as she has written on her personal blog Allied, that she did not author any of the posts about Kathy Sierra that appeared on these blogs. She also told me that she was in the hospital when these threatening posts were made about Kathy. When she was released, the sites were down. Jeneane also repeated to me, nearly verbatim, the comment she left on Shelley Powers' blog:

"I don't feel i can speak on this, though I wish I could. Legal statements have been used in emails that leave me unwilling to go beyond stating what I have on my blog. I'll state it again hereâ€“anything i have ever written about kathy has been on my own blog. I agree with much of what shelley has written here and thank her, and parts of what Frank has written on his blog as well.
My statements are and will be on my blog, the place I where I actually write stuff, when I know I can speak freely without legal consequence. There are important issues here to discuss, which shelley mentions â€” layers and layers of them.

I hope Kathy does find the commentor who has threatened her life and takes action to feel safe. And I hope she uses the same vigor to exonerate those whom she has inaccurately linked to those acts."

I need to mention here that for the past two years, Jeneane has been an important voice of encouragement and counsel within the BlogHer community. She was a conference advisor for two years. She has done an enormous amount to enrich BlogHer, including her single-handed leadership of our BlogHer '06 Conference Chat. Her BlogHer posts have enriched BlogHer's mission. In short, I believe her and I think she offers the above statement about Kathy in good faith.

For the record, I deeply disagree with the premise of sites like meankids.org and others, and am surprised by the women and men who recommended and linked them from the beginning. To me, these sites are the FuckedCompany.com of the blogosphere, a place where bitter cowards who don't have the courage to own their snark hide and spit. I disagree with Frank Paynter that the early posts were designed to be "mere anarchy". It looks to me as though the site devolved into being exactly what anyone who has ever seen that kind of site fester would expect. I'm glad he apologized for the effect the site had on the community (see the comments).
My opinions aside, we don't believe that linking to and associating with sites we don't like is currently in and of itself a breach of our community guidelines and editor agreements. If, however, we learned that an editor created hate speech of any kind (on or off of BlogHer) it would be a different story.

I hope this long post helps clarify where BlogHer stands on the issue of hate speech against Kathy Sierra or anyone online. We're against it and we're here to help - if you are experiencing online abuse, I recommend you read this post: What do you do when you're cyberstalked, taunted or abused online?

Look forward to your thoughts. Welcome your links below.
~L

Lisa Stone is a BlogHer Co-Founder. Her personal blog is Surfette.