BlogHer - What should be done about Don Imus? - Comments

I'd love to build a school, but what would we teach?

Kim Pearson — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 20:13:09 -0500

Hi David,
I'm sure you're a very nice person, too.
You still haven't told me what's silly. I think the applicability of the Sullivan standard is debatable. The case between Larry Flynt and Jerry Falwell might be more applicable, if it had ever come to court.

That the term "'ho" originated in the black community has been acknowledged. What I've tried to point out is that I believe it's a reflection of internalized racism and sexism. Patricia Hill Collins' Black Sexual Politics explores this internalized self-hatred brilliantly. I've offered my own take here and here, and here, just offhand.

Yes, my daughter is pretty tough. But what you have to understand is that incidents such as these contribute to the problem of stereotype threat, which has been shown to negatively affect people's performance even when they have high self esteem. (Here's a collection of scholarly articles that validate and extend Steele's research.) Any school we build together has to counteract the reality, as you say, that at any time, their life chances might be impeded by someone who is evaluating them on the basis of a negative stereotype.

That's why this is not about hurt feelings.

To answer your question about Snoop Dogg, if he had said the same thing about these women on FCC regulated airwaves, I would hope that he would face the same penalty. It will be interesting to see whether there will finally be mainstream media attention to the protests that been undertaken against misogyny in hip hop for years. Maybe there will be more attention, as well, to bands such as The Coup, who have been protesting the gangstas ever since they dropped Genocide and Juice back in the day. I certainly hope so.

By the way, there is a parallel to Imus in the hip-hop world -- shock jocks Star and Buck Wild. Last year Star was fired after threatening a rival DJ. They had been engaging in crude, tasteless "humor" for some time.

But I'll tell you what. Maybe we can work together to cut the demand for negative hip-hop. You do know, I'm sure that most of the sales for that tripe come from outside the black community.

Finally, if you really think that the only reason Imus got in trouble is because he's white, how do you explain the success of the Rolling Stones? They sang "Brown Sugar" years ago, and it, too, invoked offensive stereotypes of black female sexuality.

Like you, I'm ready to let this thread rest. I hope we will figure out how to build that school together.

BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|Contributing Writer, Online Journalism Review

I find it ignominious that I must defend Imus

David — Sun, 15 Apr 2007 18:26:02 -0500

Iâ€™ll Stop Defending Imus with these last few comments. Because is it at all possible that you are missing my point entirely?

1. â€œNappy-Headedâ€ does not necessarily mean ugly:
http://theorganicbeautyexpert.typepad.com/the_organic_beauty_expert/imag...

The woman in that link is gorgeous. She happens to have tight, curly hair that is common to some African-American women. I know a few white girls that would kill to have hair like that..

2. The definition of â€œHoâ€ appears to have come from the African-American Community:

American Heritage Dictionary - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Ho

ho 2 (hÅ) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. hos
Slang A prostitute.

[African American Vernacular English, alteration of whore.]

Now with all that being said, I must also vehemently support that Imusâ€™ statement would be protected under the First Amendment of The United States Constitution and that he did not violate any FCC Standard or Defamation/Libel Laws. Please see Times Co. v. Sullivan - http://supreme.justia.com/constitution/amendment-01/45-defamation.html

{Erroneous statement is protected, the Court asserted, there being no exception â€œfor any test of truth.â€ Error is inevitable in any free debate and to place liability upon that score, and especially to place on the speaker the burden of proving truth, would introduce self-censorship and stifle the free expression which the First Amendment protects.}

We seem to both agree that Imus is a complete dolt for making such ignorant, disrespectful, and perhaps hurtful comments.. There really are no excuses for poor taste and the cruel dribble that spewed from his mouth.. But answer me this one question:

If Snoop Dogg had a radio show and made the same comments, would anyone have paid him any mind? Would he be required to apologize to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? Or would he have gotten away with it because he is black? We all know the answer to this question. Snoop Dog is somehow protected by his skin color when he makes inappropriate, racial comments about his own race. I believe Imusâ€™ big mistake was â€“ heâ€™s white and he made a poor attempt at humor by somehow identifying with the black community with his insensitive remarks. But heâ€™s not in that exclusive club, so he was criticized, persecuted and ultimately fired from his job.

Kim, you are obviously a very intelligent woman and I bet youâ€™re a great mother. You canâ€™t tell me that you havenâ€™t taught your daughter that there are cruel, insensitive, ignorant and sometimes mean people in this world, and that you havenâ€™t raised her to be tough..

My only reason for writing this blog is to show the â€œComplete Pictureâ€ with Racism. As I said before â€“ â€œThe knife cuts both waysâ€, maybe a better way to have said that is â€œThe racism knife cuts in every directionâ€â€¦

Therefore, again, why canâ€™t we just STOP with the silliness, stop being so whiny-pants-sensitive, and ALL GET ALONG? Iâ€™m game, are you? Letâ€™s get together and build a school or something!

But David, that's not what he did

Kim Pearson — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:28:48 -0500

Let's agree that neither of us is defending what Imus said. I hope that you'll also agree with me that the phrase that he used did not simply (and inaccurately) refer to their appearance. He called them morally loose women. That is defamatory. There is nothing in the constitution that defends defamation.

I'm not sure why you think this is a silly conversation. I'm only continuing it personally because folks are talking about it on this thread, and I felt I had something constructive to contribute. I haven't really talked about my personal feelings.

But I will say this. I know what it's like to be a young black woman, pursuing an education, and have someone who is male and powerful make assumptions about your sexuality. I know what it means to work hard and have your achievements dismissed, and your perspective discounted because of who you are. I am the mother of a young black woman who is a recent college graduate, and I know what she has gone through. I work with young women of color and watch them try to get through college with their self-esteem intact in the face of a culture that is still all to ready to tell them what they can't do. When I watched the young women of the Rutgers basketball team on television, I had to fight back tears.

The thing that needs to be understood is that when this kind of language is used against young people, it has consequences. It affects their self-esteem and their sense of possibility. The show of support for the Rutgers women was crucial to undoing some of that damage.

I agree with you that there are many problems that we all need to address together. I hope that you will also acknowledge that for many of the problems you cite, you can't get away from the legacy of white supremacy in this country. On the contrary, we have to be honest about that legacy if we are ever going to make real strides in health care, education and other pressing social needs. Like you, I get tired of that reality, but our being tired doesn't change the facts.

I wish you peace.

BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|Contributing Writer, Online Journalism Review

Fortunately, The Constitution is Blind to Skin Color

David — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:01:50 -0500

Thank you for your reply, Kim. But along those same constitutional lines, one could also argue that Imus was only commenting on the Rutgers Womenâ€™s Basketball Teamâ€™s appearance. They too are public figures and seek publicity. Granted, any normal person would assume that their publicity should be limited to their incredible athletic skills on the court, but unfortunately that is not our world..

Yes, Imus is a HUGE ignoramus.. The guy is what? 67 years old? Heâ€™s from a different era.. Perhaps a very ignorant era.. He was born in a time when they had separate drinking fountains for whites and blacks, where people â€œof colorâ€ had to sit in the back of the bus or even yield their seating to a white person.. I am disgusted with that thought and I am extremely embarrassed for our nations past, ugly history. As we all should be..

But when does the squabbling stop ??? Why canâ€™t it stop with us â€“ right now ?? We need to accept the fact that there will always be ignorant people and there will always be comments made that are not appropriate.. So letâ€™s get over it! Letâ€™s quit being so thin-skinnedâ€¦

No, Iâ€™m not making any excuses for Imusâ€™ poor taste in humor. The statement he made was not funny and was grossly inappropriate. But I would die fighting for his right to say each and every word...

One of my greatest fears is that we as a society have gotten too wrapped up into these silly racial-sexist arguments/squabbles, and that we ignore what is most important. Like helping people, being tolerant and loving to the ones who are different from ourselves, educating our youth, building schools, fighting diseases and being what we are supposed to be: Good Human Beingsâ€¦

The Constitution says you can call Al Sharpton a blowhard

Kim Pearson — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:22:28 -0500

It's called fair comment, David. Al Sharpton is a public figure. He seeks publicity. You criticized his public behavior. If that's all Imus had done, he'd still be working today.

BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|Contributing Writer, Online Journalism Review

KingCast -

David — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:59:42 -0500

KingCast -

If you think Imus is such an "angry-conservative voice" who's an "asshole", then change the station! Don't listen to him! Our free market society will eventually eliminate him due to poor ratings. If his show sucks and people aren't listening, it will be canceled.

But to fire the guy for poor-taste humor??

Thank you Mamalogues! Your "thought police" post says it all. Totally a slippery slope/connect the dots situation when we have to worry about our free speech voice being monitored by a bunch of self-appointed, morally superior people with nothing better to do...

Firing Imus Witch Hunt

David — Sat, 14 Apr 2007 11:37:54 -0500

I completely concur with Dejah & Heather. Being a white male with many black friends (I guess African-American is now the PC thing to say, what will it be next year??), I had actually never heard the word "nappy" before this Imus business. Probably a good thing since Imus was FIRED for saying it on his situation-comedy radio program - I wouldnâ€™t want to get fired.

I asked a couple of friends who happen to have black skin what â€œnappyâ€ meant. I was informed that it referred to messy-curly hair. I further inquired if they were offended by this dialogue, if the word was actually insulting to their race. They both said they really hadnâ€™t thought much about it (one man, one woman) and that theyâ€™ve even used it with their own children to inspire good hygiene â€“ â€œyour looking pretty nappy, go comb your hair and clean upâ€.

Heather's "Get a Grip" comment says it all.. When will people just settle down and GET A GRIP?? The problem with racism is that it will not go away when everyone is so uptight. There will always be people who are ignorant, belligerent, demeaning and politically incorrect, no matter what the skin color. If you donâ€™t like these people, donâ€™t hang out with them, donâ€™t listen to them on the radio, and go ahead and criticize them â€“ itâ€™s your God given right to do so. But fire them??

Hey, I know, why donâ€™t we burn Imusâ€™ house down too??

By the way, the house-burning idea is a poor attempt at HUMOR. Get it? Poor taste..

My only wish is that I would have been born a thousand years in the future, where all the different races would have already intermixed so that we'd all be one skin color. What race are you sir? Iâ€™m â€œHybrid-Melting-Potâ€, thank you..

Iâ€™m sick and tired of people constantly jumping on this racism bandwagon - That means you, Al Sharpton! Who made you the unquestionable authority and spokesman for the entire Black / African-American Community? See? I can say that because we live in a free-speech society. Al Sharpton is a pompous, reckless Blowhard! It has nothing to do with him being black (for all you racism-bandwagon-jumpers), but it has everything to do with him being a complete jackass.

See? I did it again.. Should I be fired from my job?

The racism knife cuts both ways girls and boys.. Why canâ€™t we all just get along with one another??

Spike Lee

Kim Pearson — Fri, 13 Apr 2007 09:42:10 -0500

"Jiggaboo" is an old Jim-Crow era word, and yes it was used in Spike Lee's film. I was part of a commentary on class and color prejudice within the black community. This is the scene in question. Mc Guirk's use of the term had nothing to do with what Spike Lee was doing.

BlogHer Contributing Editor|
Professor Kim|
Contributing Writer, Online Journalism Review

CBS made the right call.

KingCast — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 19:06:24 -0500

Imus takes a powder:

http://christopher-king.blogspot.com/2007/04/kingcast-watches-as-don-imu...

....and not the kind he used to put up his nose. From my first post:

I loved Don Imus when I was a kid in Cleveland. He had a show there and he's part of why I went into media in the first place, for example noted herein where I drank beers with Jerry Springer and tracked an asshole named Ken Blackwell 17 years before we started KingCast. Imus seemed knowledgeable yet playfully irrevorent and whatnot.

But over the years his comments seemed to come with more vitriol and from an agry-conservative voice. So now he just seems less a role model and more like an asshole for calling the runner-up lady Rutger's basketball team a bunch of "nappy-headed hos" while praising the beauty of the Tennessee team. Excuse me but there is no professional context under which such a comment is remotely permissible. Maybe all those effin' rails he used to push up his hooter made him into the Devil, I dunno.

I have not checked in with Cousin Mike (Wilbon) on this but I can tell you that Browns Sportsblog reports that off camera the word "jiggaboo" was even tossed around.

.....but now I hear that that may have been a Spike Lee School Days reference, I don't know.

I want to add something that

Dana Loesch — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 15:46:23 -0500

I want to add something that I didn't say earlier.

I never agree with Rosie O'Donnell on anything; in fact I am convinced that we could never, ever party together, but I cannot agree more with what she said here.

Free speech is free speech. The consequence of free speech? We can choose not to listen. Companies can choose not to air something. We can choose not to support. We can choose to change the channel, the station, to write letters; to exercise OUR free speech and say that this apathy, which the Imus situation highlights, is intolerable. What we don't need is exactly what O'Donnell said: thought police. I'd rather have some ignorant hick on the street corner spouting off than have our voice constantly monitored to make sure they comply with the regulations of the state. It's not a slippery slope, it's just connecting the dots.

Dana
Mamalogues.com
In the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Pop Mama
Since Eve

Re: the "Well the Rappers Say It &You All Don't Protest" Defense

Yvette Perry — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 13:07:42 -0500

Perhaps folks do not realize that Black and other people have been speaking out against self-hate, Black-on-Black violence, misogyny, etc in "gangsta" rap for a long time.

A couple of good places to start: here and here.

Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast

About this Imus situation

dejah84 — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 11:40:18 -0500

My personal opinion in regards of this "Imus situation" is that african american women or any woman that might have been offended by this, shouldn't just concentrate on some remarks a radio celebrity might make, if it really bothers them to be called "nappy headed hoes" why do they allow it to be said in the radio in almost every other hip hop song out there? Rappers and some african-american comedians, women and men, refer to women as bitches and hoes all the time, we have now days teenager who sing along to this songs everyday, so I would say to Reverend Jackson, if it really bothers you what Imus said, if it really offended your daughter like you said, then how about start with your own people that sing about what they're going to do to their bitches and hoes in their songs, dont try to get a man fired over a stupid ignorant comment, the type of comment that is made by african american men everyday in rap songs, if you want to make a change, make a real change, not just with one particular person only because he is a white male who happens to be a celebrity, when black man refer to their women in that way everyday in their songs, it's not ok to talk down on any woman, just because rappers happen to be of the same race than the women they talk about, it doesnt mean they can get away with it!

CBS Corp. & sponsors should drop Imus' show

Lester Gesteland — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:06:11 -0500

What should be done about Don Imus? He should be taken off the air. The only way to do this, however, is to convince CBS Radio, which broadcasts his invective, that it's not in their interest to keep Imus. (They make an estimated $20 million in ad revenue from the show.) And the the only way to convince CBS Radio is to contact the show's sponsors and complain. I don't have a list of sponsors yet, buy I do have the name and address of the guy who runs CBS Corp. (and oversees all aspects of the conglomerate, including CBS Radio):

Leslie Moonves
President and CEO
CBS Corporation
51 W. 52nd St.
New York, NY 10019-6188

I sent a letter to him this morning (so far I haven't been able to find a working email for him; the original one has been canceled, not doubt b/c of all the complaints he's been getting.) You'll find a copy of it at CeaseRacism.blogspot.com. Feel free to cut and paste and re-use as you like.

MSNBC, which simulcast the Imus show on TV, yesterday announced they will no longer do so, after sponsors quickly distanced themselves from his racist comments. It's working folks. I don't think it'll take much more pressure before CBS pulls the plug too. Please write the CEO!

MSNBC drops Imus

Maria Niles — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 19:08:12 -0500

MSNBC has decided to drop the television simulcast of Imus' show no doubt due to losing several top advertisers.

Rev. Al Sharpton is quoted in this Boston Globe article calling for a broader examination of the use of sexist and racist language for the purpose of entertainment:

"I think we also have to have now a broad discussion on how the music industry allows this to be used," said the Rev. Al Sharpton. "I don't think that we should stop at NBC and I don't think we should stop at Imus. I think we really need to address how the public airways is used to denigrate women and desecrate people according to their race."

Can him

Dana Loesch — Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:59:11 -0500

A-freaking-men to this:
"those demanding Imus be fired SHOULD of demanded the same thing the 1st time he crossed the line."

It sounds like a bunch of people who've never listened to his show caught one episode and got offended. This is characteristic of his entire shtick - what, NOW everyone is going to get all up in arms over him? Where was the outrage when he referred to Simon and Shuster as "thieving Jews?" Or any number of his other slurs made in the name of entertainment? Shock as entertainment is not revolutionary, itâ€™s hackneyed. Shock is not art. It's lazy.

I think Imus deserved to get canned a long time ago. I think it smacks of hypocrisy that Hollywood makes big bucks off of degrading black people (a song that calls women "bitches" and "hoes" won an Oscar for crying out loud) and Jesse Jackson isn't standing in Universal's/Sony's/Atlantic's/Def Jam's/etc. lot protesting every day. We can't pick and choose what to boycott and what not to. I'm not saying that any of you feel this way, but I don't recall anyone losing their jobs for what popular culture objectifies daily. Know what I mean?

Contributing to charities and one's feelings on racial issues are not one and the same. Even the devil can quote Scripture.

Dana
Mamalogues.com
In the St. Louis Post-Dispatch
Pop Mama
Since Eve

What should be done about Don Imus?

Kim Pearson — Sun, 08 Apr 2007 00:49:47 -0500

By now, you probably know that last week, popular radio host Don Imus opened his mouth and inserted his foot so far down his gullet, it may take the jaws of life to get it out. On April 4, the 39th anniversary of Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King's assassination, Imus called the NCAA-finalist Rutgers women basketball team "nappy-headed hos", and calls for his dismissal have been coming ever since. The apologies from the I-man and his network have been weighed and found wanting. Part of the problem, of course, is that it's not the first time, as Richard Prince notes:

"On March 6, MediaMatters reports, [Imus show producer Bernard] McGuirk said that Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton was 'trying to sound black in front of a black audience" when she gave a speech on March 4 in Selma, Ala., to commemorate the 1965 'Bloody Sunday' civil rights march.

"McGuirk added that Clinton "will have cornrows and gold teeth before this fight" with Sen. Barack Obama is over. Earlier in the program, in reference to Clinton's speech, McGuirk had said, "Bitch is gonna be wearing cornrows." McGuirk also said that Clinton will be "giving Crips signs during speeches," the Web site reported, in a reference to the Los Angeles-based street gang.

"Gaines said MSNBC's statement on the comments about the Rutgers team also applied to those about Clinton.

"In the previous decade, when PBS' Gwen Ifill was a member of the New York Times' Washington Bureau, Imus said of her: "Isn't The Times wonderful? It lets the cleaning lady cover the White House," the late Lars-Eric Nelson reported in 1998 in the New York Daily News.

"In the same column, Nelson reported that Imus described Washington Post reporter Howard Kurtz as a 'boner-nosed, beanie-wearing Jew boy...'

And in the midst of the ferment, Roland Martin asks, Where are the feminists?

"[I]t is insulting that, as usual, African Americans have had to carry this load. Any person with half a brain would think that female-focused groups would join in the chorus of people weighing in on this controversy. But no!"

I'm not sure Roland has read Liza's take on the issue, but he might appreciate the way she breaks it down. It's Patricia Hill Collins redux:

"[T]this is about Imus and Co. demeaning those women using a common racist denigration of hair texture â€” nothing more needs to be telegraphed â€” kinky hair=bad, ugly, animalistic, straight hair=good, attractive. And to top it off, those nappy-headed gals at Rutgers are therefore â€˜hos as well. Nice.

"And people wonder why so many black women have a complex about their hair, gooping it up with nasty lye relaxers, frying their scalp with hot combs? The self-loathing is so culturally ingrained, so pathological, and itâ€™s reinforced by the messages like the ones Imus and friends are having a great laugh over. Itâ€™s toxic and ignorant...."

What do you think? Should Imus lose his job? Should women editors, politicians and activists weigh in on the controversy?