BlogHer - No pink ribbons for Twisty. - Comments

I think we are all the

mir — Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:24:05 -0600

I think we are all the unwilling subjects of other people language - but I think wrt to trans issues a little bit of sarcasm can really go a long way to hurting feelings and inhibiting solid debate.

I mean, I've been punched in the arm for making stupid jokes about being in line for the "ladies room" at queer parties. At first it hurt (why pick on me? I am on your side) and at the time I felt defensive.. Than I began to wonder what impact my words have outside of their intended effect and should I take some reponsability for being misunderstood or not. This is especially true in situations where irony is being used to make a political point.

It's not be confused with political correctness, it's knowing that some jokes are only funny to some people, some of the time.

Short statement : the best defense is to avoid getting defensive.

god i sound like yoda - insufferable that is.

please take this in the spirit of love and respect it is offered.

like someone running in late and pitching an olive branch...

Miriam
The Flink
"like harnessing a unicorn to harvest potatoes"

Big Fan

deviousdiva — Sat, 18 Feb 2006 08:53:00 -0600

I'm a huge fan of Twisty. I love her humour and the fact she's not afraid to say it like it is.

THIS IS NOT MY COUNTRY

Ha Nancy

Denise — Sat, 18 Feb 2006 07:04:20 -0600

Let's not rehash that - Koan and I have been through it on both of our blogs. I'll send you the links, if you like.

But no, you don't need sleep, you're tracking the conversation properly.

~Denise

Stupid Question

Nancy White — Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:59:06 -0600

Grow a pair of balls or a pair of breasts?

Clearly, I need sleep. Dense, etc. But we're talking balls, yes?

:D Debi

Melinda Casino — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:14:29 -0600

"Melinda? Do I see a momentary lapse from our normally sharp Sour Duck? ;-)"

Temporary, but I'll get over it... ;)

"If I did 'grow a pair,' thongs would certainly be out of the question from now on."

:D !

Melinda

LOL Debi-Boy did I just get a visual

Elisa Camahort — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 10:30:19 -0600

Debi: That started my morning with a laugh. Now, as for kumbayah and on-topic vs. off-topic.

First: while the original post concluded with a focus on Twisty's reaction to breast cancer and pink ribbons, a goodly portion of it was devoted to Twisty's writings and attitude toward the patriarchy in general. So I personally would consider the whole conversation on topic.

Second: On the other hand I have a personal guideline I use that when I'm about to leave a comment that exceeds three paragraphs...it obviously is calling out to be a post of its own that I can link to instead. I do think because I know some bloggers get bugged by really long paragraphs that they think "hog" their comment space.

Third: Civil disagreement over ideas, not personalities adds and will continue to add to the dynamism and impact of this site. Particularly because I recall a certain blogger who contended that women don't know how to have such civil disagreements (emphasis being on the fact that we try too hard to be civil and therefore don't disagree) I am pleased and proud to see it here.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer and Worker Bees
elisa@blogher.org/elisa@workerbees.biz

I shall...

Denise — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 07:38:02 -0600

I shall be happy to address this completely and far too fully for your comfort, I'm sure, on my blog. (Good way to get me to give you the post I've been saying I was going to write for months!)

If you can't beat it, become it, is exactly the issue! Exactly!

~Denise

In conclusion

Koan — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 06:38:47 -0600

You still refuse to answer what it is that "a pair" would do to convert me to your way of thinking. I'm not surprised - I wasn't expecting an answer.

"Using its words and its power" - if you can't beat it, become it, is that it? You're absolutely right, I *don't* get that. I seem to recall that "two wrongs don't make a right".

Since you refuse to provide the clarification for which I have repeatedly asked, my interest (and participation) in this exchange is at an end.

Blog: Multidimensional.Me

Koan...

Denise — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 05:27:52 -0600

Did you by chance see what I said... and hear it?

1) I firmly agree with Twisty when she says Queers should step away from the Patriarchy rather than trying to join it in the form of marriage.

2) I so adore what she says that I often want to tell other gay people to "grow a pair".

3) The reason I don't is because of people like you and my pal nelle. Neither of you see the humor or the sarcasm in the use of a sexist phrase of this nature.

4) The phrase "grow a pair" is, in fact, sexist as are numerous phrases commonly used in our society. I assume Twisty knows it's a sexist phrase but chose to use it simply because it works so well in this article to get her point across. At least I think it works, which is why I'm always tempted to say it.

It's all about the Patriarchy, Koan - about turning it on its ear, about using its words and its power to mix things up. It's about sarcasm and yes even sexism. You, it seems, don't get it. And that's ok by me. I on the other hand adore Ms Twisty for her efforts.

No Kumbaya here, please.

~Denise

Funny but

mobilejones — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 03:38:26 -0600

Melinda? Do I see a momentary lapse from our normally sharp Sour Duck? ;-)

This is especially true with regards to issues where people need to learn more (e.g., language and its impact on the way people think, and transgendered people and issues).

And see I was just thinking that the points Koan makes illustrated a great irony of suggesting anyone "grow a pair" while praising a militant stance toward the patriarchy. Oh, and I'm not transgendered, but apparently I'm undergendered.

If I did "grow a pair," thongs would certainly be out of the question from now on.

Debi Jones
Contributing Editor, Blogging and Social Media
Feed your mobile jones

Yes, yes, yes! We need to see the real deal...

Grace Davis — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:45:31 -0600

...we need to know for ourselves and loved ones like Jeannie, but also to understand and honor those who have undergone/suffered/survived breast cancer surgery and treatment.

This is why I jumped on the opportunity to co-edit the personal section - it is stunning and awesome to encounter the raw truth and to pull it out and say to everyone - THIS is what it looks like. It's not gingham, or rainbows, it's stitches and a nasty drainage bag.

Thank you for your comment and for telling your truth, as well.

Grace Davis
Contributing Editor - Personal Blogging
BlogHer 06 Advisory Board Member
Blog: State of Grace

Koan...

Grace Davis — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:29:20 -0600

...greetings to you.

My suggestion to expand this discussion beyond the comments of my original post on Twisty's mastectomy was simply a recommendation to create a venue for a worthy exchange, challenges included.

Your concern that Denise's comment "was expressed here - as far as I'm concerned, it ought to be explained here", is noted. But, as these remarks are off topic, the discussion would be best pursued in a separate blog entry or within the BlogHer Forum.

Grace Davis
Contributing Editor - Personal Blogging
BlogHer 06 Advisory Board Member
Blog: State of Grace

This site should definitely not be "kumbaya" all the time...

Melinda Casino — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:23:58 -0600

This has actually proven to be one of the more interesting comment threads.

Koan, you have a wonderful sense of humor - I wasn't expecting your kumbaya line at the end! :D ;)

Disagreement is good, healthy, and a desireable thing, especially at a community site. It's much better than stuffing it all in, feeling like you can't disagree, or can't ask questions.

This is especially true with regards to issues where people need to learn more (e.g., language and its impact on the way people think, and transgendered people and issues).

This site should definitely *not* be exclusively kumbaya. (A little "kumbaya" sometimes is good for the soul, though...)

P.S. - I think people here pretty much know to criticise someone's idea, not the person.

P.P.S. - I never know when it's appropriate to discuss things in the comments section, or when to take it to the forum. Seems more natural and "bloggy" to discuss it here, because then others can see the original article - or context - that sparked the discussion.

Just my 2 cents.

Melinda

She does rule.

Grace Davis — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 01:05:28 -0600

Well, our Twisty may have issues with the occupied uterus, but she sure nuff loves her nieces.

Believe me, it was awkward writing about a briliant writer. I should have just filled up that entry with Twisty's words alone.

Grace Davis
Contributing Editor - Personal Blogging
BlogHer 06 Advisory Board Member
Blog: State of Grace

I appreciate that some of

Koan — Fri, 10 Feb 2006 00:58:11 -0600

I appreciate that some of these comments have little to do with your post - but one of those comments constituted what I, for one, take as a patronising, insulting, sexist put-down. It was expressed here - as far as I'm concerned, it ought to be explained here.

Or *not* explained here - which might be revealing in its own right. I've no immediate interest in discussing "marriage as a patriarchal device" - I *am* immediately interested in learning what "a pair" would give me.

Apologies to any who think that this site should be exclusively kumbaya - who think that we shouldn't challenge what is written here, when a challenge seems appropriate.

Blog: Multidimensional.Me

No pink ribbons for Twisty.

Grace Davis — Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:34:40 -0600

I did not catch on to the sheer brilliance that is I Blame the Patriarchy until my dear friend Janeen Armstrong of destinations journey of a restless mind spent a half hour last year at BlogHer singing the praises of I Blame the Patriarchy's anonymous blogger, "Twisty Faster...a spinster aunt eating dinner in Austin, Texas." I try my utmost best to keep up with the hip and cool and certainly with any righteous institution dedicated to fighting patriarchy, so I hastened to Twisty's famed blog.

Indeed, I Blame the Patriarchy does not disappoint. To describe Twisty's superior wielding and mastery of the language is an impossible task. Nobody I know can do her justice. Far better to provide a sample of the Twisty craft.

Her message of welcome to readers:

Congratulations! Your interest in blaming the patriarchy places you among some of the most elite blamers of our time. The most popular ideology in the world, patriarchy provides blamers, both amateurs and professionals, with a rich and virtually endless supply of hideous source material.

And a treatise on the Twisty mission:

I Blame The Patriarchy exists to exacerbate the radical feminist views of Twisty Faster. These views are centered on the belief that patriarchy is a tyrannical but nearly invisible social order based on an oppressive paradigm of dominance and submission fetishizing class and status. Patriarchy's benefits are accrued according to a rigid hierarchy at the top of which are rich honky males and at the bottom of which are poor women of color. The Twisty Revolution envisions a post-patriarchal order free of theocracy, gender, race, marriage, reproduction, caste, pornography, rape, and government interference in private uteruses, suicides, domestic arrangements, and drug habits.

Yes! Makes you want to stand up and pound the table!

Last September, I Blame the Patriarchy fans were diverted from the usual stimulating fare of Patriarchy Blaming to discover that Twisty was called off to an emergency:

Dammit, wouldn't you knowurgent stupid crap requires that I temporarily abandon my post. I'll try to wedge in the odd post here or there, but I may be away from my desk through the weekend. In the meantime, keep blaming, and feel free to use this space for the blowing off of steam, or the drawing of attention to the vile current event, or the making of the impertinent remark, or what have you.

Upon her return, Twisty made this startling announcement:

Although some would question the sanity of publishing the following personal detail on the World Wide Web, there are several reasons I now confide to thousands of total strangers that yesterday I came down with a nasty case of breast cancerThe urgent stupid crap to which I alluded yesterday is the requisite battery of tests to which one reluctantly submits when one inadvertently discovers boobal lumpage. I've got'em today. I've got'em tomorrow. I've got'em next week.
It sucks.
But don't worry; dudely research suggests there's an 85% survival rate, and dudes are never wrong! I just wanted yall to know that if my posting becomes somewhat erratic and I fail to effervesce with my usual vim, it's nothing personal.
And, no, I'm not gonna put a fucking pink ribbon on my car.

The last sentence is where it all comes home for me.

I had a frightening brush with breast cancer three years ago. My daughter's soccer coach and Girl Scout leader had, at the ridiculously young age of 39, just passed away from metastatic breast cancer. Directly after this good woman's funeral, I underwent a routine mammogram. A mass was detected in my right breast. Multiple radiological images and two unbelievably painful biopsies later, the mass was excised. With that surgery, I can say in all the gratitude my heart can muster, end of story.

When I informed my friends and family about the tests and procedures, a segment of my well wishers offered gifts of stuffed animals and child-like accessories, all pink, and all affixed with a pink breast cancer awareness ribbon. As much as I love those well intentioned gift givers, the perky little bears, make up bags and charm bracelets made me feel like I was 11 years old and very, very helpless.

Such is the infanitilization of women breast cancer patients, an attitude adopted by certain advocacy groups and health care providers. The pink and cuddly motif serves a clear purpose - to swaddle women in fluff thus preventing them from exploding in fury and rage. It is, of course, much easier to deal with a coddled child than an angry grown woman.

Twisty further defied the pink ribbon brigade by committing the ultimate taboo: She showed us what breast cancer looks like:

Please be warned, honest, truthful images of breast cancer are brutal.

Self portrait of nipple and lymph node biopsy incision sites.

Post mastectomy with drainage apparatus.

Give me these truths any day. Give me this reality. Give me these and all data so I will know what I can expect and how to make my decisions. For I am a woman who has known breast cancer, not a scared child wanting to hide behind a toy.

For these reminders, and all the valuable lessons from I Blame the Patriarchy, I thank you, Twisty.