BlogHer - "I'm not a feminist, but..." F-that!! - Comments

Definitely!

bk2nocal — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:08:00 -0500

I have dealt with the sneers and the jeers when claiming my belief in feminism. I have even evoked shock in some, "gee, you don't seem like a feminist." I think that its important to own our feminism so everyone knows that there are many different faces of feminism. And although I think its important to have some core values associated with being feminist, as long as individuals can claim their power under your view of feminism, then so-be-it.

I think as feminists we sometimes need to spend more time listening to other women. It seems to me that sometimes the "movement" of feminism drowns out the voices of women...and that to me is NOT what feminism is about. Even if (perhaps especially if) I don't like what another woman is saying, its important to be open, to listen and to respond with respect. Otherwise, we are not really upholding the foundation of our beliefs - that all women should have access to equality. I'm certainly not saying we have to like or endorse what other women say. I think repectfully disagreeing, open discussion and engagement of controversy is an important skill that many lack in today's society of dog-eat-dog, right v. left, conservative v. liberal, no middle ground politics.

So, I don't agree with everyone who posted on here, but I certainly can see their points, I can engage their arguments and in the end, I may have to respectfully disagree. But, I think they should be empowered to say and believe what they want to say and believe.
I think we are all smart enough to figure out what it is we believe and why - the question I have is are we aware enough, open enough and respectful enough to have all the information we need to make that decision? That to me is a big source of the problem. Someone mentioned it above - there are too many who are not engaged, who don't have any information other than the 8 second soundbites they get from network news (if that), but they can not escape having to make life decisions. So, if using the term "chick" is more likely to engage people and educate them on something they would not otherwise know, than I say go for it!

Sue Peterson
"Make sure you have finished speaking before your audience has finished listening."
--Dorothy Sarnoff

http://www.meliorist.wordpress.com
http://www.bk2nocal.wordpress.com

With us or agin us

Mary Clare Hunt — Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:47:05 -0500

Feminism to me, has an all or nothing connotation and perhaps that's where the "but" is coming in. It's our nature to be inclusive and to label ourselves as feminists perhaps makes women feel uninclusive. (it makes me feel that way) When men say it, they are extending their reach. When women say it, it takes on a one sided feeling.

The great difference between 1970 and now is that now every consumer product is doing it's best to market to women. That means that women's values are being honored and included in their messages, i.e. DOVE's success. We don't have to be as political anymore to affect change, we can do it by letting the markets know what pleases us and then letting the markets pay to change the image of women. The Super Bowl went from a wardrobe malfunction to practically Disney in less than three years because of this.

Intriguing

fringethemagazine — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:55:55 -0500

I think you're exposing a central problem that the feminist movement has to face -- I think that most feminists don't want to alienate other women, and often find it empowering to interpret other women's choices in a feminist way.

But on the other hand, in become so all-encompassing and multi-perspectival, the movement has lost steam because there isn't a specific core agenda that folks are working toward. In validating the choices of all women, feminism loses its moral reference point from which it can criticize. And I think being able to be critical is what effects change.

So it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation -- by not validating women's choices, feminists might be said to be condescending to other women in the same way the patriarchy does, but by validating the choices of all women, feminism loses its power to effect change.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but it makes sense to me that their ought to be small sects of feminism advocating for specific goals. And, I absolutely agree that race and class struggles are integral to moving feminism along.

The Noun That Verbs Your World.

I bought the shirt for my

fringethemagazine — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:33:31 -0500

I bought the shirt for my fiance. When he wears it out (frequently), people comment, usually positively, but often with surprise. But then, we do live in MA, land of liberals.

It is in my hometown - I

Atena — Thu, 21 Jun 2007 01:46:03 -0500

It is in my hometown - I will definitely make it if I can. I haven't been blogging as much lately (though I'm slowly jumping back on the bandwagon), so it might be a challenge to justify the expense, but I'd love to connect with other bloggers. I'll let you know if I can get there.

Atena

Assumptions, Biases & Irrational Fantasies

My Life As a Radical Whore/Madonna

Right on!

Suzanne Reisman — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:17:10 -0500

Atena, I hope that you will be at BlogHer this year, as I think it is in your hometown. If not, I hope we can meet up at some point.

Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

Feminism is not necesarily politics...

Suzanne Reisman — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:14:44 -0500

... although it clearly is political. I think that women who embrace human rights (ie - free speech, voting, education, whether or not to marry, etc.) are feminists. We may not agree on the all the details, as Bridget Magnus already pointed out, but if the basic concept of human equality - humanism, as Jim H. described it - then I think political parties don't matter to some extent. (The problem is, of course, the details.)

Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

I believe in feminism...

Atena — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 20:50:07 -0500

I don't think that saying you believe in equal rights is the only qualification of feminist thought. I think 'feminist' works as an adjective, but not as a noun.

I don't think feminism is whatever any particular liberal-minded person decides for themselves it is.

I don't think women amassing material wealth = feminism.

I think that feminism is the struggle against sexist oppression. I think that an advocate of feminism is most effective when they recognize that sexism is intimately tied to other forms of oppression, including racism and classism. I think that if you support capitalist oppression, or any other forms of oppression (intentionally or otherwise), then you're not supporting feminism responsibly or effectively.

I don't think feminism is the same as being a woman and doing whatever you want.

Some liberal-minded people are advocates of feminism, some not. I think much of the problem surrounding the word 'feminist' is that people have gotten into the habit of defining it for themselves without being accountable to any central ideas at all. If it means anything to anyone, then essentially, it means very little. If that's how people see it, then why should they take feminism seriously?

I try to infuse feminism (i.e. the struggle against sexist oppression) into my life everyday.

Atena

Assumptions, Biases & Irrational Fantasies

My Life As a Radical Whore/Madonna

A Joyous Word that means Choice and Freedom

Creatively Belle — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:50:15 -0500

Thanks Morra.

But 100 years ago I would have had an uphill fight to have a company, have property, vote, get a degree, and speak my own mind. These are all rights that it is a privelege to have.

I think there are probably as many definitions of feminism as there are women and men.

For me it is choice and freedom.

I've only heard people that I thought were prats say that feminism is a bad thing - usually someone who is scared by the thought of change towards equality, choice and freedom because it would challenge their mediocracy.

For me equality is part of the process of freedom and choice, so it is only part of the deal.

We might be moving towards equality in the workforce but feminism is also about the freedom to choose lifestyle? The lifestyle I choose is different to what you choose but I have the right and privelege to make that choice.

Lifestyle is education, property, voting, thinking, participating, children.

If you want feminism to be a dirty word it will be. If you want it to be a joyous word it will be. You choose whatever it means to you.

Smiles
Belinda

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Loved your reason

Morra Aarons Mele — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:34:36 -0500

Linked to it on my own personal site:
www.womenandwork.org

Morra

This statement rocks

Morra Aarons Mele — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:24:35 -0500

Creatively Belle, you have re-cast feminism for me into something (ahem) Fair and Balance. You write:

I have my own company, I have my own property, I vote, I have my university degree, I have my own mind; of course I'm a feminist.

Rock on!

I think of myself as

Dana J. Tuszke — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 12:12:16 -0500

I think of myself as feminist sometimes, but it seems the definition is different for every woman.

I had a woman tell me I couldn't be a feminist because of my political views and so I don't know anymore. I asked this woman if there was a feminist mold I had to fit into and even she couldn't answer that question.

I believe that women deserve equal rights.

I also wonder how many interpretations of feminism there are? And how did the word become negative?

Dana from The Dana Files.

Yes

heivilinj — Wed, 20 Jun 2007 11:31:20 -0500

I would identify myself as a feminist before I would claim to be a democrat! Although I might be more accurate defined as a humanist since I believe that gender is irrelevant in matters of fairness and equality.

However I think I would use that term before humanist just to fly in the face of close minded conservatives who refuse to engage in meaningful debate and compromise (and thus progress).

Jim Heivilin

What feminism means to me

Suzanne Reisman — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:34:11 -0500

This post, Feminism used to be a dirty word to me by Vicious Rumours, still chokes me up, months after she wrote it. Quick excerpt:

"Feminism" used to be a dirty word to me. Something to be snorted at and used as a vulgar epithet. Now I'm beginning to see that being a "feminist" isn't really all that different from being a "humanist". Interacting with these women has helped erase some long held and preconceived notions I've been carrying around.

Thanks Morra!

Suzanne, BlogHer Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

I have my own company, I

Creatively Belle — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 19:37:08 -0500

I have my own company, I have my own property, I vote, I have my university degree, I have my own mind; of course I'm a feminist.

I remember at university having discussions about books like "The Beauty Myth" and many of the men felt threaten by it so we had an assignment of looking at the media, what stories were coming out with what views and who they were written by. Disappointingly it was the male journalists who were coming out with tripe about the harm of the feminist backlash and that feminism was about setting women against women and blaming all men as bad.

What we found from studying the articles from the leading national magazines and newspapers over a series of months was there was an attempt to set the message that feminism was a dirty word, equality is fine but having equal representation in government and business wouldn't happen because women didn't want it.

And this all at a time when more than 50% of university students were women studying for their careers, not attending university to find a hubby at the tender age of 20.

For me in my naivety I couldn't understand why what feminism stood for could be perceived as dirty, until it was explained to me that equality threaten the status quo. It would challenge sexual harressment, it would mean women are a powerful political body by taking control of their voting rights, that there would be more competition for business and government roles, that it would bring change and that change is threatening to many people.

I was studying journalism so taking care to explore who was writing what and why was part of my coming of age and getting of wisedom. I learned that I have control over the language in my life and that if I let others make a mockery of my natural rights and the collective noun for them then I was being played a fool and I didn't want that.

I wouldn't be able to live the honest and happy life I lead if it wasn't for the 4 - 5 waves of feminism and the efforts of the women and men over the last 130 years. Without their efforts I wouldn't have my education, I wouldn't have my business, I wouldn't have my emotionally healthy family, I wouldn't have the home I have.

Yes, I'm a feminist. I am a woman. Of course I'm a feminist. I own the meaning of the term, I have not surrendered it to fearful controllers. I celebrate the joy in feminism and the womanly traits it brings out in me.

I love it that babysitters are wearing t-shirts saying they are feminists. This gives me hope.

Well done for getting this thread going.

Cheers
Belinda

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"I'm not a feminist, but..." F-that!!

Morra Aarons Mele — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:04:51 -0500

Did you know more American women identify as feminists than as evangelicals? Even still, the majority of us (check out the stats- usually about 1 in 4 of US women) would rather say we're lepers than that we're feminists. And no wonder, since it's widely accepted the women's movement as we know it is a mess and stuck in the past, with the exception of some bright new online sparks like Jessica Valenti at Feministing, Echidne of the Snakes and BlogHer's own Suzanne Reisman.

Recently I've been doing some work for Legal Momentum, the nation's oldest organization of legal advocates for women. Definitely a second wave institution. To that end, we've been asking women if they define themselves as feminists, or would they prefer to say...

I'm not a feminist, but..." (fill in the blank: I'm not a feminist but I believe men and women should have equal rights. I'm not a feminist but I believe women should earn the same as men. You get the idea).

In our sample (albeit, probably a more progressive, online and left-leaning sample) 86% of respondents said, "hell yes, I'm a proud feminist." That made me so happy.

I'd love to know from BlogHers- are you feminists? Or qualified feminists? Do you hate the word? What does the F-word conjure up? Is it irrelevant? To me, there's no doubt today the word itself is negative, but the concepts are positive.