BlogHer - Dating is like a job interview, or: Don't order the meat if you're vegan, or: Duh. - Comments

Sharing another thought...

moddivorce — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 13:48:35 -0500

After reading your blog post yesterday, I stumbled on this very appropriate quote...

"Let the world know you as you are, not as you think you should be, becuse sooner or later, if you are posing, you will forget the pose, and then where are you?" ~Fanny Brice

Helene
http://themodernwomansdivorceguide.com

Ah, sounds like sorkin and chenoweth!

Elisa Camahort — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:32:39 -0500

That's an interesting tidbit Elaine.

You know how Aaron Sorkin was working out his feelings over his relationship with Kristin Chenoweth via Studi0 60? Perhaps Salkin had some unresolved feelings for Loeb that he was working out :)

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.org

At the risk of sounding cynical....

moddivorce — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:29:43 -0500

which, truthfully,I am at times....no man is woth the time, effort and contortions involved in being someone you aren't. Of course, that doesn't mean you should let it all hang out....but you've got to be you and if that means steak, tofutti or chocolate for dinner - eat up!

I love the carninormative

TW — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 15:28:24 -0500

Yes, well Americans tend to be obsessed with what people eat and don't eat. The politics of food....ai yi yi.
~TW
Retro-Food

The article author, Allen Salkin

ElaineVigneault — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:49:34 -0500

it's also sort of ironic that the author of that article is the guy who had that weird date scene on Lisa Loeb's show where he just went out with her to get on TV and promote his book.

Oh, and Loeb is a vegetarian.

Read my mind.

Meals may signal, but they should signal authentically

Liz Rizzo — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 14:39:13 -0500

I think what you choose to eat does make a statement about who you are, but as you say Elisa, your positive eating choices, whatever they may be, are going to come across as positive to your types of people, right? The NYT article really fails where it labels one type of eating positive and one negative, when in reality, of course different choices appeal to different people.

Liz Rizzo

I blog at Everyday Goddess and On The Lot.

What a fluffy and subtly offensive piece!

Elisa Camahort — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:26:46 -0500

I reserved my comments on this piece for Maria's post linked above, not in my own post, but I found this piece to be offensive on two levels:

1. to women
How exactly is it better to certain kinds of meals to make an impression than any other kind. Oh, ordering meat to send a signal is SO much more "authentic" than ordering light dainty meals to send a different kind of signal. It's all still manipulating our behaviors based on what we think a man (and apparently they all think alike) will think of it. Sure, we do this in other ways too, but why pile it on with worrying about what we eat? Can you say American obsession with food, and not in a healthy obsessed with eating well kind of way?

2. to me as a non-meat-eater
Sure, I'm in the minority, but I found it so disingenuous to assume that all the messaging around eating meat is hip and cool and positive...without ever deigning to mention the oh so obvious other (negative) symbolism around eating meat for people like me. Apparently there's no problem making a sweeping generalization that being a veg*n equals being "finicky", but let's not even hint at the positive implications. That might make people feel bad!

My two cents, even if it's only shared by <10% of the population. What is the veg*n equivalent of heteronormative? Carninormative? ;)

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.org

Good post, Liz!

Zandria — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 11:06:51 -0500

This is an excellent example of women who aren't themselves when they meet someone for the first (or third, or tenth) time. Why not just be honest from the beginning?

Personal blog: Keep Up With Me
BlogHer blog: Life - Singles

Dating is like a job interview, or: Don't order the meat if you're vegan, or: Duh.

Liz Rizzo — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 09:49:46 -0500

Have you ever done eHarmony? One of the features is that, after you're matched with someone and you're both interested, you go through "guided communication." The first step is swapping five short-answer questions that you've picked out of a giant list. It's interesting not only for what your potential date answers, but also for what questions he picked.

One of my favorites to ask is about what sort of restaurant you like to go out to. I pick it specifically to see if I get "steakhouse" back as an answer. Two reasons: 1. Steak is my favorite dinner out, and if a guy picks "steakhouse," then that's something we have in common. I'm a meat-lover, and while it's far, far, far away from being a deal-breaker, I enjoy dating a guy who also likes to eat meat. And: 2. I think it says something about a guy if he enjoys a big, juicy steak. I think it speaks to an aggression, a confidence, a certain gusto.

So my disdain for the recent NY Times fluff piece, "Be Yourselves, Girls, Order the Rib-Eye," isn't because I don't believe that what you order at a restaurant says something about you - although I'd caution against actually putting much weight on a menu choice - It's that the article is written from that how-to-get-a-man-any-man-POV that just seems so absurd.

Seriously, does anyone really still think that way? I don't know about you, but I date to meet someone special I click with. I date to find someone who matches with me. At the point where I'm changing who I am, or doing things just to snag a man, any man - Well, if that's where you are, may I suggest a break from dating to find out who you are, what you like, and how to be single without being miserable about it?

If there's one thing anyone actually responds to (as opposed to what you order for dinner), it's self-confidence.

Once you're confident in yourself, then you can gain dating self-confidence through practice. Dating is like interviewing for jobs in a lot of ways. For both
parties. For one thing, as you go on dates, you get better at it. More relaxed, more confident and comfortable. Bad dates are practice,
just like bad interviews are practice. They may hurt, but they make the next one go better.

More importantly, if you go into a job interview and you lie about yourself and what you're looking for, you're going to end up with a job
that doesn't fit. If you're not a meat-eater, and you order steak for some effect, you may well end up with a guy who doesn't fit.

Sure, there are things we do on job interviews and dates that make sense. We think about what we're wearing; we brush our teeth and make sure our breath smells nice. We likely behave in a socially-acceptable manner, depending on the situation. We try to be our best selves, whoever that is.

But does the title "Be Yourselves, Girls, Order the Rib-Eye" even make any sense? It's like the title writer was covertly warning us that the article to come is nonsense. "Be Yourselves, Girls, Order What This Author Tells You To."

Um, hello, you're on a date, right? Remember that advice you got so many years ago about being yourself? Probably in high school from a parent? It remains the best dating advice there is. Be yourself; order what you damn well please.