BlogHer - Of Race and Marketing - Comments

Have Any PR People Changed?

Anali — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 00:19:44 -0500

I blogged about this issue a few weeks ago, because I couldn't NOT blog about it after reading some of these posts. I did get some nice discussion going and I wonder if any PR people have read the various discussions and made any changes based on the feedback.

I'm a single African-American 40- something non-mom . I've been approached by a few businesses to market their services, but not many. I write about food and books, music, and movies, and all sorts of current events. I see people getting free books and different foods to try on their blogs and do wonder sometimes why I don't. It could be that my numbers aren't high enough. I just don't know.

Link Text Anali

politically incorrect

Vera — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 22:06:17 -0500

It's great to see this being discussed, race, marital and parental status, ethnicity, all of it.

I was in a conversation recently where I referred to differences in background experiences: I'm female and the other party was male, my background is Slavic and his was Middle Eastern. He suddenly responded in a shocked and angry tone that I was being insulting to him and ended with. "We are all trying to be the same!"

That conversation didn't go much further, but it really made me stop and think about what political correctness has done to us. My parents were WWII immigrants and I didn't learn English until I was 3, when we moved into a neighborhood where the residents all spoke it. I was used to having girlfriends whose first language was different than mine, or whose skin tone was, and we were all fascinated by each others' cultural heritage in a purely innocent way. Being all different kinds was a glorious thing.

The politically correct attitude of trying to pretend our differences don't exist feels like a huge bombed out crater of loss to me.

It's about acculturation

ChelseaMcC — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:48:33 -0500

Rita, you are so right - this is great focus group stuff! I am a marketing professional that has tackled the issues of general versus ethnic marketing, so I thought I'd throw something in this really rich blog stream...

The diversity of thoughts shared here probably have less to do with Black vs Asian vs Latino and more to do with the level of identity that individuals share with their race/ethnicity. We marketing folk like to throw the term "acculturation" around, which is the psychological and social counter-part of cultural diffusion.

Smart marketers know that white America is a very small peice of the puzzle. I'll spare everyone the numbers, but for example, Texas, the state where I live/work/play/love is one of four minority-majority states - a number that will quickly grow. Reaching ethnic/racial minorities is a challenge as marketers like to buy media that reach each audience in nice, neat numbers. However, as writergal pointed out with the example of the Asian clothing store, it isn't always that easy.

With regard to products (I love the Swiffer example)... When marketers look to ethnic audiences, they are really speaking to the those that have a high level of identity with their race/ethnicity. To those with low racial/thnic ID, (writergirl probably fits into this category) it doesn't really matter if the advertisement is directed towards a specific segment. For those with a higher racial/ethnic ID, seeing a message that uses specific language/actors/images may have more meaning. That being said, not all marketers do it well.

Thanks - this is my first entry on BlogHer!

I've talked to a few PR people lately.

Rita Arens — Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:23:32 -0500

I have had contact with several PR people who disagree with some of the statements made here. I've encouraged them to jump into the conversation, as their behavior has not made me think they take race into account when publicizing their wares, but they may or may not feel comfortable taking on such an issue publically.

Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

I don't want to detract from

Gracie Passette — Wed, 22 Aug 2007 02:21:56 -0500

I don't want to detract from 'today' but you might find my recent post on minority marketing and media interesting ~ it has a 1963 interview with Leonard Evans, a legend in marketing (and the founder of the Negro National Network and the 'Tuesday' supplement). It proves quite relevant to 2007 and this conversation...

Founder, Editor, of Sex-Kitten.Net

Sometimes they try....but no response

writergal8 — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 06:19:05 -0500

I know of a clothing store specializing in petite sizes that tried to reach out to the big Asian communities in Toronto. After all, Asian women are more likely to be 5'4" or shorter, right? Well, ads apparently went into the three major Chinese language newspapers (and I assume other Asian languages too), but no. It didn't work. Reason? Asians, or, at least the Chinese community, generally fall into two categories when it comes to shopping:

1. Very affordable/budget (i.e. they won't be able to afford the $500 suits sold at this particular store)..does a lot of her shopping at places like Wal-Mart and at ethnic malls.

2. Brand name conscious: These tai-tais (ladies who lunch) have a strong preference to big name, mostly European brands. These European brands can cost even more than the clothes at this particular store.

Of course, there are other issues, such as lack of parking, bad selection (except for one or two brands, most are your typical granny-style petite clothes.) and the lack of knowledge about petite sizes (many don't know petite sizes exist or aren't sure what "petite" means).

No matter how you try to spin things, it's probably going to be difficult to attract this group (I should add that this group consists mostly of immigrant Asians/Asians who came to Canada as adults over 18. Those who came as kids or teens, or were born here are just as likely to be brand conscious, but are more likely to experiment with different designers or brands/buy unknown designers/brands.)

my blogs:

Writing Blog (for updates on my writing and media plugs about my book)

Shorty Stories (a blog for petite activism)

Exactly, Rita.

lauriewrites — Tue, 21 Aug 2007 00:00:44 -0500

If PR people, of ALL people, don't know how to talk to people, including (I hate this term) "niche markets"? They're not doing their job. Their job is to figure out how to talk to people. (And yes there are some fine PR people out there. This is not an indictment of everyone in the industry.)

I'm single. Not rich, not poor. I still know how to spend money, whether on my dime or Capital One's interest rates. I've had a blog for two years and never had a pitch, and I blather on about any number of things. I just got asked to contribute to a shopping blog, based on my networking efforts. Still, nada. And you know what? I don't care. Let people assume I have no reach, or pull, or whatever. I'm in this for me, as well as for the relationships I form while writing in various forums (which have truly changed my life. That is what's taking my writing to the next phase.). I think that's going to serve my long-term goals better than dealing with anyone from an agency. I edited a trade magazine once, and I learned then that the pr folks (as nice and efficient as some of them were) could NEVER match word of mouth.

I know this wasn't Heather's initial point, and I still say that Kelly's initial post on this was the great clarifier for me on the issue that Heather raised in her post. It was intelligent and straightforward. Bottom line: TALK TO ME. Have the smarts to talk to me, no matter who I am.

Laurie
http://lauriewrites.typepad.com

Exactly, so why the cold shoulder from the PR hacks?

Karoli — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:07:40 -0500

This is what mystifies me. When a PR hack says "We don't know what to do with [women bloggers of color]", I think someone should stand up and tell them exactly what to do with them -- consider them a part of the larger group of bloggers and include them.

There are two issues that I see and even after mulling them over for three weeks, I don't get it. The first is why marketers don't turn to the sector they market to; e.g. shampoos that are made for hair that doesn't need more body, for example. The second is this whole idea of not sending free samples toward bloggers who aren't white, middle class mommybloggers, but are nevertheless bloggers with influence and also blogging women of color.

As you say, writergal8, diapers, swiffers and dishwashing soap are not race (or even gender) -specific products, so why on earth would any PR person "not know what to do with them"?

karoli (odd time signatures)

For God's sake, free sh*t for everyone.

Rita Arens — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:58:09 -0500

It's possible the PR people love mommies (and apparently, white mommies) because of the notion that we are buying for more people because more people are inherent in the fact we had sex and procreated. That said, (PR people, are you listening? I used to do PR! This is free focus-group sh*t, here!) middle America reads blogs and follows bloggers. If you're popular and have a big audience and happen to do reviews, you should get free sh*t to review because you will reach a greater audience, thus offering higher ROI for the PR people and their clients.

I think the point here is that big audiences and substantial reach are not limited to white mommies at all. There are (gasp) single people and (double gasp) ASIANS AND BLACKS AND LATINAS who have success and reach. And they would like their f*cking laundry detergeant, stat.

Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

Amen, Heather

suebob — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:41:06 -0500

As a single woman, I feel like I have LESS disposable income because I don't have anyone to split rent or mortgage with, I don't get many tax deductions, etc. So it is a bit galling to hear mom/family bloggers complain about the lack of attention they get...I always say "Try being a single, childless 40-something and see if anyone pays attention to you" (they don't).

As far as race goes, I think that white people are in the same position vis a vis race as men are to woman. White is considered the norm, and we don't even bother to consider what that means. There is white and there are "other" races. White is not other. Male is still considered the norm in many places. Whenever I mention my doctor or my boss, most people STILL assume that person is male, and it is not.

If racism and sexism are over, answer me this: why do men overwhelmingly choose books written by other men and why do white people tend to avoid movies with all-black casts? Because books written by women are "women's books" and movies about black people are obviously only interesting to blacks?? This subject is so fascinating to me.

They are not race specific

Maria Niles — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:08:37 -0500

nor marital status specific so why are only white mommy bloggers being pitched and sent products to review? That's the point. Bloggers who are popular and influential should be pitched to even if they are of color or single or whatever...

Marketers and PR reps can and should do a better job of targeting bloggers and I say this as a marketer.

That's the point...

HeatherB — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:55:14 -0500

It's not race specific and yet advertisers/marketers aren't reaching out to mom's of color because they "don't know how to talk to them." It doesn't make any sense because everyone uses diapers and swiffers and laundry detergent so it's not like it needs to be packaged in a certain way or that women of color need to be spoken to about it differently, it's laundry detergent and a swiffer. Both of which are very non-discriminatory and things that people of all colors use.

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance

My thoughts exactly

HeatherB — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:48:53 -0500

People have this false notion of single women having all of this disposable income and doing fabulous things. I live with my mother in upstate NY. The only 'fabulous' thing about my life is my daily trek to Dunkin Donuts for $2.00 coffee. The rest of my money goes to bills, etc. So very exciting. I'd love some free sh*t, too. But not only am I not a mommy, but I'm also black, so it's like a double wammy.

Heather B.
Personal Blog: No Pasa Nada
BlogHer CE: Business, Career & Personal Finance

Baby stuff's not race specific

writergal8 — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:12:08 -0500

Since when were diapers, household items (like swiffers), etc...race specific?

my blogs:

Writing Blog (for updates on my writing and media plugs about my book)

Shorty Stories (a blog for petite activism)

I Was There, Too

BlondieChicago — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 19:04:17 -0500

Hello, all. I followed Rita to the session even though I'm not a mommy because she is my sister, and I remember this moment in the conversation.

Writergal8, as Rita explained, the conversation was revolving around bloggers getting free products in the mail to write about on their blogs. Mommies are often sent free gadgets, diapers, swiffers, etc. by marketing companies. But the trend seems to be that they send them to white mommies.

I found this interesting for 2 reasons: 1.) I'm not a mommy, so I was unaware that there was a race issue in the marketing blogger mommy world. I found this fascinating--because, yes, it's 2007, so that seems INSANE. 2.) I'm single. No one sends me ANYTHING. And no, I don't have a giant condo OR a disposable income. I could totally use some free sh*t. Bring it on! But alas, I'm not a mommy.

Heather, you not only speak to race issues, but also to the singles issues, and I commend you for that. Very interesting food for thought!

Of Race and Marketing

HeatherB — Mon, 20 Aug 2007 06:43:35 -0500

A couple of weeks ago, I wrote about a few of the financial highlights from the BlogHer conference. Nothing to write home about, but just some things that I picked up on during a few of the conversations and sessions I had attended. What I love about the BlogHer conference – and I’d say this anywhere, not just in this space – is the way it fosters a discussion and then individual bloggers expound upon this conversation as they process the happenings of the previous days. Therefore the dialogue continues after the conference and in various communities, with the hope of gaining better understanding or teaching others or inflicting change.

What I failed to mention in my previous post was more of what occurred during the State of the Momosphere session. I had alluded to the discussion of advertising but a few other bloggers – mothers – took this into the oft choppy waters of race and advertising and why PR professionals fail to recognize mothers of color for one reason or another. Bringing up advertising and why some mom’s get one thing and others don’t is already a little dicey, but bring race into any conversation and one ends up skating on some paper thin ice.

Thankfully what has occurred in the weeks since BlogHer has been a relatively peaceful meeting of the virtual minds on the topic of race and marketing. And why, no, I don’t mind if I just insert myself into this here conversation.

I’ve said repeatedly that I – and most single women – don’t get the hordes of marketers coming after us because despite our disposable income we don’t have little people to force New Balance sneakers or Gerber foods onto. But try being a single, black female (Seriously, so much fun that I can hardly contain myself) and NO ONE will want you. And for the most part I could care less and I wouldn’t think it purposeful, but there’s just this trend that was brought up by two excellent (and far more eloquent) women – Stefania Pomponi Butler and Kelly Wickham – that just piqued my interest after I picked my jaw off of the floor.

A few excerpts from their phenomenal and thoughtful writing over the past few weeks; from Stefania:

To his credit one of the PR dudes came up to me after the session and asked "How should we pitch to mommy bloggers?"

And I said, "Tell me you looked up my stats on Alexa. Tell me you picked me because you *think* I may be influential. Tell me that you know mombloggers get pitched to all the time but that you'd *pretty please* like me to listen to you. Just don't bullshit me by telling me 'you read my blog.' I know you don't."

Then he admitted, "You're right. We don't pitch to bloggers of color." And here's the money quote: "We just don't know what to do with them."

From Kelly:

My question, then, was directed at those two marketing professionals and I asked when they would tap into the mothers of color and bring us into the fold because they are leaving us out of the loop. When will the diversity come into play?

And the question? With The Hand? It died a sad death right there. We got back to the monetization of blogs and I got a little excited when Stefania chimed in that diversity does indeed need to include moms of color because she has concerns about Asians being marginalized as well.

Every time I read each of these posts, which only began to fuel this discussion – with no plans of dying down anytime soon, Thank God – I think OH MY LORD. Seriously? Seriously. And I wish I had something a little more effective to say than some spiteful retort of “If you don’t know what to do with us bloggers of color then I don’t know what to do with people of complete ignorance. Asshat.” See? Mature, no? I’m just finding the whole thing baffling, not because I’ve been living in some land of Oz where everyone gets treated the same and fairly but because the reasoning behind the lack of reaching out to mothers of color seems so very Birmingham circa 1965 not the Blogosphere in 2007.

I’m annoyed and angry. While I really don’t mind not being marketed to, etc. because I don’t have children even though I also do laundry and use Swiffers, I’m just beyond baffled and somewhat hurt that it’s not just a mom vs. non-moms thing, but it’s a racial thing. Because apparently women with a little more pigment to their skin don’t do the same things that everyone else does. I can now only mange to successfully do what I always do when I drop myself into a conversation: I say “Hmm, that’s some crappy, crapness right there” and then stand around awkwardly thinking that everyone else involved is so much more intelligent. And then when asked for my opinion in the matter, I can only offer the really revolutionary thought that that it doesn't seem like a good marketing strategy to ignore an entire demographic of women based on skin color, especially this day in age. Not to mention for Public Relations professionals, way, to relate to the public, by saying that you "don't know what to do" with women of color. Welcome to 2007!

Anyway, the good thing about this is that I KNOW that everyone else involved are considerably more intelligent (Did I mention the eloquence yet? And articulate, too) (I couldn’t help myself with that one). I also know that Kelly and Stefania have both started this very necessary discussion has gotten people thinking and reacting in a good way. So now that I’ve added my worthwhile opinion, I’m going back to twiddling my thumbs and maybe jumping in when with an emphatic “YEAH!” when necessary.