BlogHer - Is it a Good Thing to be Honest About Racism? - Comments

this is a good discussion

laurie — Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:03:31 -0500

Just to clarify, I was not suggesting that Canada is less racist just that in my experience, we do talk about racism. However, I work within the left/labour/social justice environment...and while racism is not named enough, there are, at least on the surface, attempts to address it. For example, the union I work for organized compulsory anti-racism workshops for all employes. Perhaps the left just does a better job of paying lip service to racism.

Of course, the workshops were precipitated by some racist incidents that needed to be addressed...

laurie
www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com

I definitely think it is

WomunOfColour — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:13:15 -0500

I definitely think it is better to discuss racism.

I can see why voicing racist thoughts to a large audience can be harmful. People are actually influenced by these comments, which may reaffirm their prejudicial beliefs or convince them that such thoughts are 'normal' or obvious.

On the other hand, not talking about racism just reinforces the idea that it doesn't exist. It also stops anti-racism progress and the recognition of systemic racism.

Ultimately, however, I believe that racism needs to be discussed in a forum that allows dialogue. It isn't appropriate to have a one-way dialogue, where one person voices their opinion and the others are there to listen and consume. This is why the Michael Richards, Don Imus, etc. incidents are inappropriate. There isn't any space for a serious discussion of racism in a comedy club or casual radio show.

However, I didn't find anything wrong with Cathy Salustri admitting her racism. I found that certain reactions were wrong, such as 'applauding' her for something like that. Salustri didn't mention anything about doing something to change her racism, but that alone doesn't deserve special condemnation. (Only the regular kind.)

As for Canada versus the United States in terms of discussing racism, I think it depends on who you talk to. I live in Canada, and I can see what you mean by the sentiment that racism is an American problem, and as long as we are not as racist as the average American, we are not racist. However, I do notice that the Canadian government recognizes institutional racism while the American government does not seem to. The term "visible minority" is often used and seems to be a Canadian one, which I think is an important concept.

talking in Toronto

Vera — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:32:20 -0500

I'm a Torontonian also, am married to an American, and have lived and worked in the US.

My experience is that it is much much harder to get Canadians to talk about any serious issue at all, including racism. Fellow Canadians regularly ask me if I'm an American, and some of that is just my naturally agressive nature in business, but it is also related to the fact that I believe that the more we discuss things which really matter, the better we'll be able to understand one another, live together, share our communities, and make them better.

We're awfully neat and clean and polite here. Does this contribute to a better quality of life? Are we wasting much opportunity and perhaps risking our freedom through our silence?

Averting our eyes and keeping our mouths shut is only better, imo, when respect and trust are absent. We don't, however, contribute anything to creating trust and respect this way.

I'm no fan of diversity policies because,...

writergal8 — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 12:31:47 -0500

...I find a lot of it insulting. It's always working under ASSUMPTION. And we all know that ASSUMING makes an @$$ out of (yo)U and me. I don't like it when people @$$UME that my family is oh-so-traditional in the "old world" kind of way when we are probably more "traditional" from an Anglo, white POV. I also don't like it when white liberals and non-independent school educated people (minorities or non-minorities) ASSUME that I was one of a small handful of minorities at my alma mater and that my alma mater is a "basstion of WASPiness" (well, maybe culturally WASPy, but the students certainly aren't, and haven't been for a good 20-something years). Finally, I don't like being criticized for abandoning "my culture" because I plan to wear white when I get married (because certain people who've taken "cultural sensitivity" classes automatically assume that Chinese brides don't wear white....it would be akin to wearing black in the western world...MOST BRIDES OF HONG KONG DESCENT WEAR WHITE!!!)

Thank you.

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Great comments

lainad — Sat, 08 Sep 2007 07:51:29 -0500

Laurie, you believe that Canadians are more open in talking about racism? I have always had the opposite opinion, but you do have a point. I think that because of the history of slavery and the treatment of other ethnic and cultural groups when they immigrated to the USA, there might be a hesitancy in some people discussing it, as it brings up what can best be described as "guilt." Even though people should not feel quilty if they haven't participated in racist acts - either overt or covert.

In Canada, where we live under this guise of "everything is great," it is harder to talk to people about racism because they honestly think that it is just an American problem. As someone who has done alot of anti-racist work in Toronto it is incredibly fustrating even trying to get members of the community that you are trying to assist to participate, as they also believe that because of Canada's lauding of diversity policies, that they have no right to complain about instances they experience - especially rooted in institutional and structual situations.

I was at Blogher but I did not attend the Amy Sedaris session andI have barely heard anything about her comments. Interesting.

I don't really have a

Caffeinated Librarian — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:55:36 -0500

I don't really have a comment to add for this post, but I remember reading your post about Cathy Salustri and wanting to comment then on that subject. But I didn't because, as usual, I'd come upon the post so long after it was written that my comment felt a little irrelevant. But the subject stuck with me and, since you mentioned her again, I'm going to take the opportunity to make the comment now that I should have taken then.

I bought my house about five years ago. The neighborhood I live in is very racially diverse, in fact I'm in the minority on my street as a white woman. I'm single. I live alone. And I love where I live.

I walk alone at night. I've never felt uncomfortable doing so because there are tons of folk outside at night in my neighborhood - individuals jogging, families pushing babies in strollers, teenagers hanging out, and folks sitting on their decks and porches talking to their neighbors. And I'd like to say I picked this neighborhood to make some big, multicultural statement about peace and harmony - but I didn't. I got a great deal, a house I loved, and a shorter commute to work. It was a very easy choice - straightforward even - and one that I've never regretted. And I live in the South folks, so if it it can happen here it can happen anywhere.

So, I'm just a little perplexed by this whole "let's freak out about the folks who don't look like me because they might be dangerous" attitude exemplified by Salustri. It just doesn't correspond to anything I've experienced personally where I live...and I'd bet dollars to donuts that the other single women in my neighborhood feel the same way I do.

The Caffeinated Librarian

i was shocked, too

laurie — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 22:14:37 -0500

I was horrified by both the "ching chong" and squaw" comments by Amy Sedaris and it really did taint the session for me, too. I kept waiting for the shit to hit the fan but it just didn't - then or later.

I've talked about it with friends here - not sure if my expectations were different because Canadians are more open to discussing racism (imho and in the opinion of friends that do anti-racism work) but I felt sure that someone would say something.

I wrote about it in my survey but I have wondered since how many of us wish now that we (or someone) had said something.

laurie
www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com

For Me Respect and Trust Trump Honesty

Vera — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 16:31:50 -0500

I agree that honesty isn't always the right policy in terms of what is spoken out loud. This isn't to say that honesty doesn't rule, only that we shouldn't and don't always say everything out loud and in public, nor should we. A lot of what people think and shouldn't say isn't about honesty anyway, it's about their personal opinion, emotional response, hang ups, etc. It's baggage, not honesty.

My own belief is in being respectful to ourselves and to one another.

Potty mouthed humor is sometimes used among friends who trust one another (if that's their way) without offense taken or given. We give our friends the right to tease us once we trust them, and know that they intend no disrespect.

Any judgemental remark, whether intended humorously or earnestly, can be insulting where mutual respect and trust has not been established first.

Honesty Is Usually The Best Policy

Anali — Fri, 07 Sep 2007 08:51:49 -0500

Link TextAnali

I think that the only way to confront and then eradicate a problem is to acknowledge that it exists. I didn't watch the "Big Brother" video, so I don't know what was said there though. But on the other hand, sometimes honesty can be cruel, so there needs to be some sort of balance that basic good manners and judgement should make apparent to most people.

Racism is a hard thing to talk about. When you mention the racist remark that was said on "The View", it reminded me of what Amy Sedaris said at the Blogher Conference. I was sitting in that session and was really shocked by it. It was really horrible and for me tainted everything that she said afterward. I was very disappointed that nobody said anything, but then again I didn't say anything either, so I really can't blame anyone else.

Is it a Good Thing to be Honest About Racism?

lainad — Thu, 06 Sep 2007 20:43:55 -0500

Hooray! CNN finally decided to air news reports about Jena 6. Because probably most North Americans who do not peruse social justice sites (or live outside of Louisiana) might not know of the case, getting the word out on cable’s largest news station is a good thing. Let’s hope that with increased public awareness, the other five teenagers will also be tried in a Juvenile court…if they should even go to court at all (but hey, I’m a cynic).

Why do I think that this is good news? Let’s look at the hot mess the media has stirred up the past year. No one wants to talk about overt racism, especially when the news item concerns racist behaviour from whites against blacks. That is a no – no. The main media outlets would rather us pretend that there is not a problem, and if there is…..such as glaring racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic slurs spewing from the mouths of celebrities like Michael Richards, Mel Gibson, Jerry Lewis or Don Imus, it is somehow the fault of the group that the insults are directed at. Blame Hip-Hop. “Hey, aren’t you being racist for calling me a racist? Racist!” So for CNN to ‘decide’ to actually question the legitimacy of the charges against the Jena 6 is a good thing.

Besides the more celebrated cases of celebrities suffering from verbal diarrhea, it seems that North America’s fascination with people uttering remarks that, ten years ago they would have warranted their arrest by the Politically Incorrect Police now seems to be tolerated…at least by the majority of the population. However thanks to the ‘Net, there are now hundreds of bloggers who will report and provide a counter analysis on these issues that give people like me some hope that there are some sane folks left in the world.

Most recently, a Youtube video from Big Brother 8 was released. As most people commented that they found the ‘private’ conversations between the contestants very offensive, what was interesting is that while these idiots knew that the house is rigged with cameras and microphones (hence the title, Big Brother) they still felt comfortable to ‘let it all hang out.’ Also, CBS refused to take any action, allegedly prohibiting reporters from asking two of the contestants involved any questions about their statements. Perhaps ten years ago this footage would have never been as widely available as it is now, but after 4 weeks of appearing on YouTube, the 1 ½ minute zinger has over 60,000 hits.

Florida-based writer Cathy Salustri unwittingly scored a lot of points with white supremacists and frightened young white women when she penned, ‘My Hood made me Racist,” which I wrote about here. While some grumbled about the legitimacy of her ‘confession,’ more than a few people applauded her for her honesty which led to other female writers making a quick buck penning their own guilty confessions about scary black and Latino men. This seemed to justify the beliefs of some who felt that it was a topic that was never discussed - but most probably a lot of white folks ‘trapped’ in undesirable neighbourhoods had similar feelings. Also, that despite black folks whining and moaning about equality, that if we stopped scaring white folks, robbing and having children out of wedlock, than we wouldn’t have such editorials that was able to legitimize gross generalizations.

On the weekend, while raising money for children with Muscular Dystrophy, comedian Jerry Lewis, joking with his cameraman called a make-believe character an ‘illiterate fag.’ To play the Devil's Advocate, perhaps Lewis thought that by using the Richards and Imus defence that by claiming that he really isn’t prejudiced, that if people really knew him well that they would know that he didn’t mean any harm. O.K. So that just fell out of your mouth?

Let’s face it. Privately, people say crap like this all the damn time. Jerry Lewis doesn’t have to be a saint, but as with all the rest of the people who have shown a side of themselves that they would have been better off keeping off the cameras (like the ignoramus on The View and their / her offensive "ching chong" joke), they need to think about the messages they are projecting in public. Are these just simple mistakes by people who forget that they are on camera? Are they no-so-subtlety trying to make a point? Or are they just so full of themselves and perhaps are surrounded by people who think the same way, that they just assume that what they are saying will be widely accepted as the truth?

The problem is (for me, at least) is that there is a double standard going on. And in this case, it is not entirely the media’s fault, but the fault of public perception and what they want to consume. Hard, important news stories that center on race are not sexy…spewing racist thoughts apparently are. But are honest accounts of racism somehow providing a service? Part of me thinks that perhaps they are a catalyst to spark dialogue among the thousands of watercoolers in offices worldwide. Tell me, faithful readers what do you think?