BlogHer - Battle Over The Aurora Planned Parenthood: Is God Pro-Choice? - Comments

Thanks

ciscoguy — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:30:03 -0600

Not to completely hijack this thread, but a quick comment to Suzanne-

No pro-lifer wants to deny women access to pap smears and other legitimate feminine tests necessary for her well-being. However, there is nothing "healthy" about terminating a pregnancy, and in fact, the results are positively fatal for every "successful" abortion.

Yes, some abortion clinics do perform legitimate tests, such as pap smears. Does that mean we should allow them to continue to operate? Would a hospital that cures 50% of their patients but executes the other half remain open? -Of course not.

Your inference that these normal tests somehow lend themselves to the legitimacy of abortion is bogus and disingenuous, and you know it. No pro-lifer objects to a woman's right to a pap smear or other such normal test and treatment. Why not just eliminate abortion so women will have as many options for legitimate health care as they do now?

Ciscoguy your totally RIGHT!

kandi — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:04:43 -0600

No one has the right to take anothers life.................NO ONE!!!!!!

If you are a Christian, nothing else comes before that.....NOTHING NOT family, Not friends, Not skin color, Not money, Not politics, Not a job................ NOTHING>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ALL !!!!!

GOD is our Judge! What will we all say when we stand before him? Oh I love you God, but I supported killing 100000000 babies but I did save some other lifes.......I know God does not work like that!

Please, in the name of God reconsider what you are doing or thinking and ask God to forgive you please.

I will post a TRUE STORY that will rock your world and maybe change the way you think. As soon as I finish typing it I will post it. So keep your eye out for it. Thanks

In Christian love, Kandi

Actually, that's not true.

ciscoguy — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:16:47 -0600

Basic embryology tells us what abortion is - it's taking the life of
another human being. To assume God is pro-choice is to say the truths we know through science are false. You can nuance it, qualify it, do whatever you
want to it in your mind in an attempt to leverage your conscience into
thinking the procedure is actually acceptable, but you're only fooling yourself. And, you're certainly not fooling God.

If you are truly a Christian, you are a Christian before you are a
democrat, republican, American, man, woman, black, white, red, etc. Being a
Christian trumps all of those things. There's no such thing as a part-time Christian. It may be possible to be a good person part of most of the time, but being a Christian means you strive to model your life as Christ did, 100% of the time.

The biggest challenge of Christianity is restraining yourself from what want to be right and just (abortion) and what actually is right and just. Temptation will try to muddy the issue so that you can live with your conscience peacefully. You may get through the rest of your life coping with your excuses, but how will they hold up when you stand before God? Do all the good things you've done in your life offset the destruction of God's most innocent and helpless children? Does voting for a politician that wants to provide you healthcare offset this mass destruction of innocent life? Think about it.

This is a touchy subject

lilmommythatcould — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:15:00 -0600

This is a touchy subject but where I draw the line is when people start telling other people they are not Christian. That is not your job nor your right!

~Susan

http://lilmomthatcould.com/

The facts

ciscoguy — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 10:32:13 -0600

The idea that abortion is a religious argument is a ruse propped up by the billion dollar abortion industry in order to keep themselves in business. Go out to your library, pick up an embryology textbook and see when it says human life begins.

Most evangelicals vote pro-life because they are simply acknowledging and affirming what all of us know to be true through medical science, and therefore, cannot in clean conscience vote for an abortion rights politician.

If you are truly a Christian, as you claim, you should ask yourself this: do you honestly think Christ would support abortion? If you are open and honest with your conscience, the answer is obviously, no. Remember, Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you"

Do you consider yourself a Christian before you're an American? Because, if it's the other way around, you are not a Christian at all. Do you think Christ asks you to carry his cross everywhere except in the voting booth?

If you think abortion is just one issue among many, consider this: without the right to life, there are no rights at all. The "best" healthcare, energy policies, job markets, etc. do nothing for someone who never gets to see the light of day.

I hope you think about these things and reconsider your position.

bumper sticker

heivilinj — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 11:37:07 -0500

A few weeks ago I saw a bumper sticker that said

"Freedom of Religion means all religions."

Jim Heivilin

Excellent point...

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 18:08:17 -0500

Hi Suzanne. You make an excellent point...So many children don't even get what I would consider basic human rights (health care, safe home, and quality education). It's so sad that even in our country so many children are neglected and abused, this is an area that could use some of the attention and money that is being spent protesting at women's health clinics. There are actual children out there that really need help, just getting born doesn't assure any kind of quality of life for these children.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com

The Right to Life

Suzanne Reisman — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:43:56 -0500

While many people have different beliefs about when life begins based on different religious teachings and different scientific measures (hence you call a fetus a child and I call call it what it technically is - blastocyst, zygote, fetus, etc.), I personally believe that the right to life begins at (or very near) birth, and that right includes:
1. Health care
2. Safe housing
3. Quality education

I am fully prepared to support each child's right to life when he/she is born.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

I have a question...

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:53:45 -0500

Hi Dana.

I'm Catholic too, but I still have trouble assuming that I or any other mere mortal (Christian or otherwise) can speak to what "God would prefer".

Religion is a wonderful thing, but no one belief should rule over all others...God gave us free will, but he didn't make us the judge and jury of each others choices. Each one of us should do what is right for us, and not judge others over the choices they make.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com

Suzanne, you said "but I do

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:02:54 -0500

Suzanne, you said "but I do believe that women have the right to health care and to life."

Don't unborn humans have the right to life, too?

I don't have a problem with women using birth control -- even though as a Catholic I'm supposed to be against the pill. I like to rationalize that God would prefer that an egg not be fertilized than an abortion be performed.

Why do we as women feel we have the right to choose which child will live and which will be terminated?

Thanks Jim...

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:27:37 -0500

I agree. You really do get the impression that people who consider themselves "pro-life", are really just "pro-forcing their religious beliefs on others".

Thanks for your comment.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com

Bravo

heivilinj — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:16:12 -0500

I also appreciate this post.

Personally I think God is "Pro-People". However he does give us the opportunity to both make bad choices (hurting people, especially people who are trying to help others) as well as good ones (like PP and you guys).

I prefer to refer to these people, who call themselves "Pro-life" as proponents of Forced Pregnancy rather than Pro-Life. I want to say Suzanne was the one who coined the phrase but I don't recall offhand. (so by this logic Pro-Life is also Pro-Choice)

Jim Heivilin

Thanks Laurie...

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:53:55 -0500

I'm glad you like the post, thanks for the comment.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com

this is such a great post, Catherine

laurie — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:20:05 -0500

This post makes me want to run out and offer my services to Planned Parenthood. You sum it all up very nicely in this overview.

And I would add to the excellent points that you and Suzanne had made that I would not be surprised if the protesters succeeded in increasing the numbers of later term abortions...

laurie
www.notjustaboutcancer.blogspot.com

You are absolutely right Suzanne.

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:44:03 -0500

Hi Suzanne. When I wrote this post last night, I didn't intend for it to focus so much on the pro-life issue of the controversy. In fact I had a whole post completed and ready to post at about 1am and when I tried to add a picture I lost the entire thing (links and all). After almost an hour of trying to figure out a way to get it back, I gave-up and started writing a new post...and this was the outcome.

Anyway, I agree with you 100%. Planned Parenthood provides so many important services to women, and I think the protesters just choose to blindly overlook that in order to promote their "anti-choice" agenda.

Not only are your statistics absolutely right...but it's also proven that many more abortions take place when low income women don't have access to birth control. So when you think about it that way, the protesters are actually contributing to an increased need for abortions, by denying Planned Parenthood's ability to open and dispense birth control to women who need it.

Thanks for your comments.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com

Battle Over The Aurora Planned Parenthood: Is God Pro-Choice?

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:46:13 -0500

Yesterday I wrote a post on my personal blog titled "All Women's Rights Are Not Created Equal", in response to the controversy over the opening of a Planned Parenthood in Aurora.

With the "anti-choice" movement claiming to have God and the Bible on their side...What do you think? Why do "pro-lifers" believe that God wouldn't allow for "choice"? I'm a Christian and I believe in choice...does that mean I'm going to hell? I don't know what you think, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going to hell. Anyway, is hell even big enough for all the people that believe in choice?

Well, here is a sampling of what the blogosphere is saying.

From Planned Parenthood Aurora . . .

Unfortunately today’s ruling means that, yet again, we will have to reschedule appointments for our patients. Our main concern is that every day our health center is not open, more women go without pap tests, birth control supplies and breast exams. These are critical services that this community has been lacking and that we will provide.

The Chicago Tribune Web Edition reported . . .

The irony here is that Planned Parenthood, with its broad menu of low-cost services that also includes contraceptive counseling, pregnancy testing, adoption referrals and disease screening, almost certainly does more to lower the overall number of abortions (by providing the birth control that blocks unwanted pregnancies) and to save lives than all of the protests, prayer vigils and campaigns of harassment by its enemies put together.

From Real Women, Real Voices . . .

Apparently even when offering legal, constitutionally protected services, cities like Aurora will become gun-shy when anti-choice protesters become involved. Planned Parenthood of Chicago is going to federal court to try to force the city of Aurora to allow their new clinic to open as planned on September 18.

The Curvature - Aurora On My Mind . . .

Hey, generic men’s rights activist asshat, Planned Parenthood didn’t lie to anyone. They said that they were opening a medical center. They built a medical center. Just because you don’t like the kind of medical center it is doesn’t make it any less of a medical center. If the city doesn’t require their permit applicants to specify a particular practice (gynecology, podiatry, urology . . .), or if the city doesn’t properly examine permits before approving them, that’s the city of Aurora’s problem, not Planned Parenthood’s.

And secondly, are you serious? You’re honestly going to make an argument that Planned Parenthood shouldn’t be allowed because it “brings danger to the community,” when it’s assholes just like you who make working at Planned Parenthood such a dangerous experience. How exactly does Planned Parenthood cause danger on its own? Do you think that the nurses are going to go on a shooting spree in the neighborhood? Or that a zombie aborted embryo is going to come eat your brain? [Wait, don’t answer that.] No, actually, the problem would be one of your buddies shooting the place up. If you don’t want Planned Parenthood to be a dangerous place, stop making it so damn dangerous.

Gabriela Salvidea wrote a post titled "Planned Parenthood Seeks To Educate, and Train Community Members"

“A lot of people think of PP as a place you go to get a pregnancy test, or your birth control, and we do offer those services—you know, cancer screenings, all that good stuff,” said Cora Davidson, who coordinated the camp and is Field Organizer for the local Planned Parenthood. “But we also do things like advocacy, and going out and getting support for an issue. Teaching people about an issue and really trying to protect rights so we can provide our services.”

At Average Thoughts From Average Me, God Is Pro-Choice . . .

Planned Parenthood - the organization that strikes fear and anger in the hearts of Christians everywhere. Yet Planned Parenthood is not, and has never been, synonymous with abortion. The organization provides services including STD testing, sexual health resources and education, pregnancy testing, pap smears, birth control and yes, abortions.

I know the facts - I know that Planned Parenthood facilities perform approximately 17% of the total US abortions performed each year. And I also know there are approximately 1.2 million abortions in this country each year.

A point of contention for me is that I do not believe that all abortions are evil and wrong. I have to leave room for extreme health circumstances. But I firmly believe that abortion is not a form of birth control. And it shouldn't be treated that way.

So, all of that said. I'm just simply infuriated by "Christians" who protest these clinics. To them I wish I could convey how some of the rest of the world feel when we see these ridiculous protests that benefit no one. They don't save lives. Protests haven't resulted in any marked difference in the number of abortions performed in our country. And protests haven't resulted in a difference in the number Planned Parenthood performs.

There is no measurable result of your holier-than-thou protests. There is no measurable result coming from your marching, your chanting and your arrogant and ignorant dissent.

These people really do practice what is a huge turnoff to me: ala carte Christianity. They pick and choose which portions of The Bible they use to condemn and judge others. In one breath, they chose to become Christians - to follow God, to surrender their lives. But the very next breath condemns choices that others make - using that same free will.

You see, I believe, very firmly God is pro-choice. -- much more, read full post

From RH Reality Check . . .

It is yet to be seen if the call issued today by eastern Illinois religious leaders to spend Sunday as a day of prayer in support of Planned Parenthood will lessen or intensify the debate surrounding the facility.

"To deny women access to, and choice about, abortion, to contraceptives, to sexual education, is essentially to deny them their moral standing," said the Rev. Larry Greenfield, executive minister of the American Baptist Churches of Metro Chicago. "To deny somebody choice is contrary to what I believe to be the teachings of Jesus."

If you would like to help the Aurora Planned Parenthood, here is some information from their website...

If you’re local to the Aurora or Chicago area:
Join other Planned Parenthood supporters for a Pro-choice Rally this Tuesday, September 25th, 5:00pm Aurora City Hall! We will provide t-shirts and signs until we run out to anyone who shows up to stand in support of the Aurora Planned Parenthood health center.

If you can’t make it to the rally you can still take action:

Donate your time, email volunteer@ppca.org for more information.

E-mail the Aurora City Council

E-mail a Letter to the Editor

Request a "This Family Supports Planned Parenthood" yard sign

If you’re further away but would still like to be involved, please consider making a donation to support Planned Parenthood.

For more information, check out the links below:

In defense of Planned Parenthood's deceptions in Aurora: Sometimes the only way to get fairness will make your foes cry foul

Chicago Sun Times: Let This Clinic Open (today's editorial page)

Planned Parenthood Aurora Web Site (general info about the clinic)

Also see . . .

Anti-Choice In Aurora

When "Pro-Life" Means "Terrorist"

YouTube Videos of Supporters in Aurora

So what do you think? Is God Pro-Choice??? Are You??? What do you think about the controversy in Aurora???

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at Women 4 Hope and CatherineBlogs.com