BlogHer - Parents Lose The Right To Choose: News, Facts, and Controversy Over The Chicken Pox Vaccine. - Comments

Anti-viral medications are now available.

Catherine Morgan — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:40:49 -0600

Hi karoli. Back when you and I had Chicken Pox, there was a lot of scaring with more severe cases, but now-a-days there are anti-viral meds. These medications prevent chicken pox from getting bad, my kids have no scars at all, and only had the chicken pox for a few days.

As far as Shingles goes...the Chicken Pox vaccine does not prevent Shingles, and there is even a fear that this vaccine may cause more cases of Shingles...But don't worry, the same companies that brought us the Chicken Pox vaccine will soon be peddling a Shingles Vaccine.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

I have mixed feelings....

Karoli — Fri, 23 Nov 2007 03:10:44 -0600

I caught the chicken pox when I was 12 and had a horrible case that left scars on my chest, ears and upper body. It was miserable and the virus that carries it doesn't ever leave, so I've had shingles as an adult, too. If I could have escaped that miserable 10 days from hell (yeah, it wasn't just a couple of days) I would've.

However. I think it's incredibly extreme (and possibly unconstitutional) to exclude children from school because they are not vaccinated. If they're going to do that, they should exclude all unvaccinated children...Pertussis is far more deadly than chicken pox, after all. If they think they have legal grounds for these exclusions, then I would assume they will also have to make accomodations for the unvaccinated students, which is another can of worms.

Chicken pox sucks. It's not as trivial as you paint it in some cases, but it's not at a level where children should be excluded from school, either.

karoli (odd time signatures)

Thanks for your comment Leian...

Catherine Morgan — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 19:46:46 -0600

It's nice when somebody "gets" what I'm trying to say. I'm not against saving lives, or even vaccines...but the chicken pox, HPV, and even (dare I say it) the flu vaccine, are more to benefit the pharmaceutical industry and less to benefit the people...and that is just wrong.

Thanks again Leian for taking the time to comment. I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

Risks Outweigh Benefits

leian — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:39:41 -0600

I too have had a problem with the Chickenpox vaccine. Against my real wishes, I allowed my daughter to be vaccinated against it, but I did ask the doctor why something that had just been dealt with when I was growing up was all of a sudden something so serious that we needed to be vaccinated. She said it can be serious and that there are children who die from it. Now, I do not for one minute hold ANY one person's life as being dispensable. But I think that when we start vaccinating an entire population of children - millions - to avoid something that happens very rarely, we've gone too far. I agree with Catherine 100% that this is only about making money for the pharmaceutical companies. My sister lost her first baby 3 days before he was due because of vasa previa. A simple color ultrasound would have detected the abnormality and made the baby's death avoidable but performing this test is not a standard of prenatal care although women have lobbied to ask that it be done. Why is it not done? Because it happens only 1 in 1000 cases - and because there's no money in just getting an ultrasound. Yet something that is even more rarely a fatal disease, we are now injecting millions of children to prevent? As you can see, the lack of consistency speaks to the fact that at the end of the day, it is all about money. I truly hope that they do not make that HPV vaccine mandatory and I will seriously consider leaving the country if they do. I am tired of having a government that is supposed to look out for the PEOPLE, dictate to those same people that we do unnecessary things to our bodies because of wining and dining from lobbyists. Now they are taking it to the extent that they will JAIL people? They are not looking out for us and therefore we have to look out for ourselves.

By the way, I contracted chicken pox when I was 17, much older than usual, and I lived. I hope now that my daughter will not get the disease and that if she does she does not suffer a worse case because of this stupid vaccine that they pushed on us before doing the decades of research really necessary to know if this is even good.

I'm sorry to hear about your childhood friend.

Catherine Morgan — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 16:33:16 -0600

Hello Helene. I'm sorry to hear about your childhood friend, it's always a tragedy when a child dies. More than likely there were extenuating circumstances with this young boy, because death is very rare with chicken pox. More than likely, today this boy would have lived, because he would have been able to be treated with anti-viral medication (before this medication was available, children had different degrees of illness, some could be more severe than others).

If I thought that less children would die because of this vaccine, I would agree with you. But, as I tried to explain in my post...Because this is not a life-time immunity, there will be potentially more deaths associated with chicken pox.

You see, the older a person is when they get this virus, the more serious it will be (and it's even more serious if a women is pregnant when exposed). Think about that for a minute...if you are only protected for 7-10 years, you could potentially be exposed to this virus in your 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's (and the older you are the more severe/deadly this virus will be), all it would take is missing one booster shot (are you really going to be thinking about chicken box booster shots your whole life?). So, in the long run...there very well could be more deaths related to chicken pox that are directly related to a person who had this vaccine instead of a natural exposure in childhood.

Basically, it just doesn't make sense to make the whole population of this country dependent on a chicken pox vaccine for their entire life (well...it does make sense if you are the company making the vaccine). It's a case of...Does the benefit outweigh the risk? The answer is NO...especially considering their is a medication that makes this virus even less serous then it already is.

Also, studies are beginning to show that by giving people so many vaccines, their actual immune systems are becoming less able to protect them from all sorts of illnesses.

But the long and the short of it is...Parents should not be threatened with jail time if they don't want their child vaccinated against chicken pox...That is just insane.

Thanks for your comment Helene.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

One child's life?

moddivorce — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:02:44 -0600

I remember a boy in my grade school who died from chicken pox complications. He was in fourth grade and we were reminded of his death for years to come. First, it was a catholic school so we all attended an open casket service - and we walked past his body! Next, there was a photograph of him placed in a permanent frame, bolted to our hallway wall... Needless to say, I remember the death vividly.

This leads me to ask...isn't a mandatory vaccine worthwhile if it saves one child's life? Don't you think it's worth the trouble? And what about protecting other people's children from risk of exposure...I mean what if your child gave another child chicken pox and that child died?

Just thinking about the topic out loud.
Helene
http://themodernwomansdivorceguide.com/blog

Parents jailed...

Catherine Morgan — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 09:08:23 -0600

I know what you mean....What would they do with the kids if the parents are in jail? But basically that's not going to happen, because the parents will finally cave in and get their child vaccinated (especially since nurses with vaccines will be available at the court). The administration knows that faced with jail these parents will comply...but that is the problem...WHAT'S NEXT?

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

What about the kids?

thompsonsaraht — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 03:10:43 -0600

I've been reading about the outrage over jailing parents for not vaccinating, but the aspect that is noticeably absent from discussion is what happens to the kids when the parents are jailed? It would be really interesting to see how many kids end up in foster care over this.

Sarah Thompson
http://childlawblog.blogspot.com
http://thompsonsaraht.blujay.com

Yes, You Should Vaccinate, But Jail Time for Non-Vaccinators? No

lizditz — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:32:35 -0600

First: vaccination saves lives.

Second: there is no connection between routine childhood vaccination and autism.

Third: chickenpox as a disease imposes two burdens: the risk of adverse complications to the individual suffers, and the economic cost of caring for the ill child. It's the last argument that lead to the adoption of the chickenpox vaccine.

Pediatrics. 1999 Jul ;104 (1 Pt 1):1-6 10390252
Cost of chickenpox in Canada: part I. Cost of uncomplicated cases.

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this study was to assess the direct medical costs and productivity losses associated with uncomplicated chickenpox (no hospitalization) in Canada.
[snip]

RESULTS: From a societal perspective, the per-case cost for children from 1 to 4 years of age and from 5 to 9 years of age was $370.2 and $236.5, respectively. Direct medical costs accounted for 10% of the total costs in both groups. The largest cost driver in patient care was caregiver productivity losses, which amounted to $316.5 in the younger age group and to $182.7 in the older age group. Based on an estimated yearly incidence of 344 656 cases of uncomplicated chickenpox in Canada, the total annual societal burden of the disease can be estimated at $109.2 million, with a cost to the Ministry of Health of $11.2 million.

CONCLUSION: Chickenpox is one of the last common childhood diseases prevalent in Canada, and the uncomplicated disease, despite its rather benign course, imparts a large annual economic burden.<?i>

JAMA. 1994 Feb 2;271 (5):375-81 8283587
Cost-effectiveness of a routine varicella vaccination program for US children.

OBJECTIVE--To evaluate the economic consequences of a routine varicella vaccination program that targets healthy children.

[snip]

RESULTS--A routine varicella vaccination program for healthy children would prevent 94% of all potential cases of chickenpox, provided the vaccination coverage rate is 97% at school entry. It would cost approximately $162 million annually if one dose of vaccine per child were recommended at a cost of $35 per dose. From the societal perspective, which includes work-loss costs as well as medical costs, the program would save more than $5 for every dollar invested in vaccination. However, from the health care payer's perspective (medical costs only), the program would cost approximately $2 per chickenpox case prevented, or $2500 per life-year saved. The medical cost of disease prevention was sensitive to the vaccination coverage rate and vaccine price but was relatively insensitive to assumptions about vaccine efficacy within plausible ranges. [snip]

CONCLUSIONS--A routine varicella vaccination program for healthy children would result in net savings from the societal perspective, which includes work-loss costs as well as medical costs. Compared with other prevention programs, it would also be relatively cost-effective from the health care payer's perspective.

I like what physician and scienceblogger Orac had to say on this issue:

In the end, I'm skeptical about just how effective the court's tactics will be. Personally, if I had been in charge, I probably would have simply instructed the school to send home any children whose vaccination records were not up to date with a letter instructing the parents that their children would not be permitted back until they provided proof that their children had received the required vaccinations. As it is now, although there's no doubt that remaining unvaccinated children are receiving the recommended vaccinations as a result of this campaign. The problem is that most of these children were probably not unvaccinated as a result of their parents' being opposed to vaccination, but rather due to sheer laziness or forgetfulness of the parents, and bringing down the heavy hand of the state in such a manner on them concerns. me. It's why I have to wonder if this success in Prince George's County doesn't come at too high a price, namely a major propaganda victory for antivaccination groups like AAPS and its antivaccination allies.

Liz Ditz
I Speak of Dreams
More Joy in Your Family
lizditz@gmail.com

Parents Lose The Right To Choose: News, Facts, and Controversy Over The Chicken Pox Vaccine.

Catherine Morgan — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:52:37 -0600

More problems associated with vaccines, this time the controversy is with the Chicken Pox vaccine. I haven't been silent about my distrust with the pharmaceutical industry, and most recently with the collaboration between this industry and our government...specifically the rush to make the HPV vaccine mandatory for 9 to 12 year old girls. As much as I have a problem with *some* vaccines, I have a much larger problem with our government forcing parents to vaccinate for viruses such as Chicken Pox and HPV.

I am not someone who is against childhood vaccinations, as a nurse I fully understand the necessity for vaccinating children against polio, measles, mumps, and rubella. However, vaccinating against these diseases was begun for the sole purpose of saving the lives of children, that can not be said for most of the newer vaccines (Flu, HPV, Chicken Pox, Hepatitis, etc). The sole purpose for pharmaceutical companies to develop vaccines today, is for one purpose and one purpose only...money (and a lot of it). I wont be able to go into each one in detail for this post (maybe in a future one), but here are a few statistics to just give you an idea of what I am talking about.

But now, let me talk specifically about the Chicken Pox vaccine and this latest controversy.

In Maryland parents are being threatened with fines and jail if they do not comply with vaccinating their children for chicken pox. Does anyone NOT see how insane that sounds? What the bleepidy-bleep is going on????

Speaking as one of the lucky ones, who lived through "The Great Chicken Pock Pandemic" of the 1970's...oh wait, there was no pandemic and everyone I knew got the chicken pox and a couple days off from school, and actually lived to tell the tale. For those of us old enough to remember having the chicken pox...The memories are horrifying...the pustules, the itch, the dreaded calamine lotion. If you haven't been through it yourself, you can not begin to imagine what we suffered with for those never ending couple of days. [My attempt at sarcasm...I know, don't quit my day job.]

Seriously now. When my children were born (and at that time the vaccine was not yet mandatory), the pediatrician told me about it, and I decided that if my children weren't exposed to the virus before they would be attending school, then I would consider it. [CHOICE...it's a beautiful thing, but becoming more and more rare in our society.] My reservations had nothing to do with a possible adverse reaction to the vaccine...It was the fact that, getting chicken pox as a child is not serious, and getting the virus actually gives a life-long immunity (the vaccine does not). I also wondered why anyone would consider this vaccine, when there was already an anti-viral medication available that reduced the severity of the symptoms and cut the duration of the illness?

My children both were exposed to the chicken pox before they were even in nursery school, it was no big deal, and now they are protected for life. The same can not be said for children vaccinated for chicken pox.

Most of my friends back then, thought I was crazy for not just getting the vaccine for my kids. But, even though at the time there was no (available) evidence that suggested the vaccine would not be life-long...I knew that they could not be sure until the first generation of children got older (they were the guinea pigs - just like todays generation will be the guinea pigs for the HPV vaccine). I also knew how dangerous it would be if these immunized children got older and developed this virus as adults, not to mention the girls who would be women someday and possibly lose a pregnancy because they didn't have a life-long immunity to the chicken pox.

The United States is the only country in the world that requires the chicken pox (varicella) vaccine. Other countries have assessed it and determined that chicken pox is too mild of a disease and the chicken pox shot to ineffective to justify the huge expenditure needed to mandate a shot. As with the hepatitis-b, several years after the shot became mandated the vaccine industry revealed that it too diminishes in effectiveness over time and boosters are now mandate in many states. The failure to contract wild chicken pox as a child makes a person far more susceptible to the disease shingles as an adult. Shingles is generally considered a far more serious disease than chicken pox. It is acknowledged by the vaccine industry that the widespread use of the chicken pox vaccine will lead to an epidemic of shingles. Merck, the developer of the chicken pox vaccine now has a vaccine for shingles as well. -- READ FULL ARTICLE

I feel I made the right choice for my children back then. And it is very sad to me that parents today aren't able to decide for themselves what is best for their own children. This was a vaccine designed to make money for the pharmaceutical industry, not to save lives...Even the Federal Immunization Advisory Committee admits the benefits to this vaccine are not to save lives, but to save money by reducing the amount of time parents had to take off from work...Honestly, that's not a joke.

The American people have become pauns and guinea pigs to both our government and corporate America (which basically are one in the same at this point).

So that's my take. Here are what other bloggers are saying on this issue...

This is from Barbara Loe Fisher and expert in the field of vaccinations...

- There are many new vaccines being developed that will be added to the childhood schedule and what has happened in Maryland brings up the question that many parents are asking: How many more vaccines are children going to be forced to get to be able to get a public education?

- Although Maryland and other states may allow medical and religious exemptions, they are very difficult for parents to obtain. Doctors cannot easily write medical exemptions that are not second- guessed by public health officials, who require strict adherence to narrow contraindications blessed by the CDC. Often parents, who attempt to file religious exemptions, are thrown into rooms and grilled about the sincerity of the religious beliefs.

- Parents are wondering why every vaccine that industry produces is always automatically recommended for universal use by the CDC and then mandate.

- It is time for the people to take back the power - through their elected representatives - to decide which vaccines their children should have to take to go to school. In the past few decades, legislatures have given up their power to vote on which new vaccines will be mandated and have handed that power over to public health officials who have never met a vaccine they did not want to mandate.

Well, it's a first. I actually agree with Michelle Malkin. She has a post today titled "Vaccine Bullies in the Public Schools", I couldn't have said it better myself.

Parents are being treated like child abusers by the Maryland public education system, but who’s exploiting whom? If you’re wondering why the schools didn’t simply threaten to kick the kids out of school–as opposed to jailing and fining their parents–the answer is all in the money. The schools are funded based on average-daily-attendance. Every body in a classroom is cash in their pockets.

From Country Dawn...

Parents in Maryland were threatened with jail time on Saturday if they didn't vaccinate their children. On the spot. That's right, nurses with needles were lined up and waiting... and so were police officers.

Oh, and get this. I love this. Many of these kids waited in line on Saturday to get a chicken pox booster so their parents wouldn't go to jail. Chicken pox--a vaccine that has such dubious effectiveness and value that the Federal Immunization Advisory Committee could only rationalize making it mandatory in the first place by arguing that it would prevent parents from losing about a week's worth of time from work.

In other words, it was an economic argument, not a medical one. Now, the ~~police~~ state of Maryland is threatening to throw parents in jail for ten days because their children haven't received a vaccine mandated solely on the grounds that it would keep parents from missing work in the first place...

This is from Yankee Cowgirl...

I heard an interview with Mr. Ivey yesterday where he was asked if he was going after parents that had exemptions. He said he was glad they had exemptions and he was sure they weren’t going after those students.

I don’t believe him. Out of the 1300 students they are going after, I’m expected to believe that none of those have exemptions? Come on!

And in a interesting twist...

See why the pro-life movement and Catholics are against the chicken pox vaccine.

Well that's all I have. How do you feel about this issue? Do you feel the government has a right to force parents to vaccinate their children for non-life threatening diseases/viruses? Does it seem to you that the government is *in bed* with the pharmaceutical companies on this one? Is it time for parents to take a stand on this issue? What would you do if you were one of the parents facing jail time in Maryland?

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women