BlogHer - Not chosing monogamy: Why exclusivity doesn't matter - Comments

Please do not misunderstand

Mata H — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:51:25 -0600

Regarding why it feels like TMI -- I may well not know the details of that person's relationship contract. (Nor do I need/wish to.) So as a monogamist, I do not always know what to say --what is on or off limits? I knew a man named C who was married to J and having multiple liaisons with others. At that time in my life I was in the middle of a frequently socializing community with lots of gatherings and events and occasions at which to mingle, so I would run into C quite often. He was also a business colleague. I also knew and liked his wife. I found out they were poly when he started appearing at gatherings with a variety of other women. Do I say "So C, how is J?" (Which I would say if he was alone and without her.) Am I supposed to make the spouse invisible if she is not there? C's other lovers were more like party favors. We never saw the same one twice over a period of two or three years. So they were not enduring love interests, or as you suggest "other SOs". But if they were, does one make friends with two couples, both of whom have the same male or female in common? Or is one expected to relate to the "primary couple" as the main couple?

This leads me to my second point -- Without asking, I was suddenly privy to the sexual intricacies of C and J. I am not asking anyone to hide anything they don't want to be private about. It just suddenly gave me a lot of information about them that I would not have sought out otherwise. For example, I do not ask if my married friends have other sexual relationships.

Just understand that your particular life choice may raise perfectly reasonable comfort issues for people not making that choice. I would never suggest that you hide who you honestly are.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Why TMI?

technomom — Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:04:42 -0600

I've known since my teens that I could love more than one person at a time. I tried monogamy, and while I didn't have any problems staying within my marriage vows, it just wasn't a good fit for me. Polyamory is, and my life partner and I are heading into our tenth year together.

I don't find anything "less" in polyamory. We aren't less committed or connected to each other, regardless of whether or not we have other loves. Our sex life certainly doesn't suffer. The only resource that's absolutely limited is time, and we've been able to deal with that aspect quite well.

Do imbalances happen in non-monogamous relationships? Yes, of course--just like they do in monogamous relationships. The bumps in our road haven't had anything to do with other people, but about how the two of us relate to each other. It takes a lot of deliberate communication and absolute honesty to have an intimate relationship, period, and being polyamorous requires extra communication because of the extra people.

People who aren't poly usually focus on the sex. The problems I've seen and experienced in non-monogamous relationships have never been about the sex, but about honesty, communication, time, money, childcare, unplanned pregnancies, broken agreements--the same things that are difficult for everybody. Polyamorous relationships require that we honor our commitments, just like monogamous ones do. We just negotiate those commitments explicitly. Sam and I have hit fewer landmines than many other couples, because we deliberately took time to map out the territory of our lives ahead of time, and we regularly check those maps against reality to see if they need to be updated.

As for the question in the subject line--why is seeing these people with their other SOs TMI? Would it be more or less uncomfortable if they were present with their spouses and their other lovers, all together? Is open non-monogamy threatening in some way? Do you think they should keep their relationships hidden? Why? Do you feel the same way about queer people?

I know that I'd feel extremely uncomfortable if someone brought a lover to a social event, expecting that nobody present would mention it to his or her spouse--but that would be because of the duplicity, not because he or she was involved with more than one person.

We aren't closeted at all. Hiding is for secrets, things you're ashamed of. I'm no more ashamed of being polyamorous than I am of being bisexual. They're just facts about me, like my brown and silver hair or green eyes. If you wouldn't ask me to wear colored contacts, or dye my hair to cover the silver, why would you want me or others like me to hide the fact that we love more than one person?

Namaste,
Cyn

thanks for the article, Susan

AmandaEarl — Tue, 11 Dec 2007 07:25:53 -0600

i came by way of Rachel Kramer Bussel's article on the Case for Open Relationships, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-kramer-bussel/the-case-for-open-rel...

i wanted to thank you, Susan. i've been in an open marriage for several years: the key ingredients are trust, honesty, love, respect and communication. while this works well with my spouse, i find it difficult to create such an environment with others. i've had single men as lovers and they tend to see me as a kind of transitional girl for when they are in-between monogamous relationships; i've had married men who are cheating and there, i am definitely a "girl on the side," someone they sneak off to and squeeze in time for, rather than being a part of their lives. other times i am in relationships with men in so-called "don't ask, don't tell" relationships with their spouses. this is the same for me as them being in affairs.

for a really good book on open relationsihps, i recommend Wendy O Matik's Redefining Our Relationships: Guidelines for Responsible Open Relationships.

in the meantime, i continue to live my life in an open and loving manner. i have a wonderful husband and great friends, and the occasional lover. they aren't as much a part of my life as i'd like them to be, but at least i don't have to lie or hide my feelings from my husband, and he has good shoulders for my heartbreaks. he's had his own experiences, heartbreaks etc and i'm always here to offer love and comfort too.

non-monogamy

tom_paine — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 10:17:55 -0600

I think we get waaay too hung up on the terminology of relationships and do not focus sufficiently on the substance. That means couples spend time setting up rules (if there's no sex involved, is it still unfaithful to love someone else? if I don't eat sushi with anyone else, am I still being emotionally monogamous with you?). But legalisms either restrict our choices or force us into bending the rules. The result is often heartache and betrayal.

Mata H's desire to be "special" to one person is understandable, but given the short amount of time it takes most couples to sink into sexual boredom or stagnation, the temptations of the flesh will be a real threat to them over a long time. With people living longer, healthier, and yes, sexual lives, the challenge to monogamy is real. It's the basis of my own blog, and why people are looking for answers.

Tom Paine
"Polyamorously Perverse"
http://www.polyamorouslyperverse.com/

Thanks Susan

Mata H — Wed, 21 Nov 2007 09:53:00 -0600

I have been thinking about this topic since your post -- and, I might add, thinking about it as a child of the 60's who has been there, done enough of that ... and plenty of other stuff.

I would like to add that I think FOR ME there has come to be deep value in a couple taking on the vow of fidelity, seeing it through as a promise to grow together and to share what is most intimate only with each other. For me this has also been a spiritual practice, a pledge to not use the thrill of another new body as a 'steam valve' for my primary relationship. Because, for me, that is what it would be.

Maybe I am too old, or too tired, or too old fashioned, but as far as my life is concerned, I just do not have it in me to make love with someone and not have (at least eventually) an emotional connection with them -- one that would reduce what I had or made available to my "prime one". I guess it is one thing to have a main relationship and to have sport-sex outside of it -- again, something I can't really pull off...as long as the sporter and the sportee are in agreement, well OK then. But does that happen often ? Don't imbalances develop? Does it feel like a main course or a snack? How would you feel being the snack? Who are these folks who would rather be the less significant person? Or am I getting it bass ackwards? I honestly do not mean this as contentious -- I am just interested in looking from another angle.

Plus, I have found the social ramifications awkward -- I knew two couples who were married and not monogamous. It was odd seeing them at one gathering with their spouse, and at another with a non-spouse/lesser-lover. I confess I would have rather the lesser-lover was not so public -- it was a little TMI for my taste, and made conversation uncomfortable.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Open to different ways to love

moddivorce — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:25:56 -0600

Susan,

I commend you on your courage to share your thoughts on love and open relationships. There are many people, myself included, who do not judge others for their choices in love...kudos to you. Bringing these discussions out in the "open" and making the concept more mainstream (i.e. "The Girls Next Door") will hopefully bring positive energy to a different way of approaching sex, love and relationships.

Helene
The Modern Woman's Divorce Guide
http://themodernwomansdivorceguide.com/blog

Openness and Honesty

alyssaroyse — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 11:01:27 -0600

AMEN, Mata. AMEN. I know plenty of people in "open" relationships who use them abusively, deceptively, aggressively and foolishly. Of course, the same is true of people in monogamous relationships. Or no relationships at all.

The simple truth is that , as a society, we need to reach the point where we can allow people to love how they want to love, how it feels right to them - whether its mono, poly, homo, bi, tied up in leather or gently with the lights off. We are all different, and have the right to love and be loved how we want.

The only common thread, i think, need to be honesty, compassion, generosity, real consent and unconditional love. All of that, however, can exist in just about any configuration imaginable.

The original post had some great links, but there is at least one other sex and relationship blog that does a great job of exploring the poly issue - there is a LOT of talk out there, and a LOT of questions. I think the Ask Your Mother blog is a great Q & A advice blog. Some of it is seriously racy, but a lot of it just deals with relationships.....

There's nothing "vanilla" about monogamy. Love is hard, messy and very flavorful, no matter how you do it!
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

Thanks for these great posts

susan mernit — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:45:56 -0600

I am thrilled at the tone and the heft of the posts here. I found this a hard piece to write, because I wanted to talk about my own beliefs and avoid restorting to using labels to explain personal choices. It is thrilling both to see how others have responded to this sharing, and to recognize that my ideas are not as *shocking* or unconventional as I may have thought.

I agree with Mata that there are no rules or right ways, but I personally believe that sexual exclusivity and having someone's full attention don't have to go together.

Thanks, everyone, for your words.

Susan Mernit, Susan Mernit's Blog

Monogamy is more than a vestigial tail

Mata H — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:04:16 -0600

If I am just dating, there is no reason for monogamy. But if someone is special, really special in the I-want-to-build-something-here kind of way, then I want to be monogamous. I want to feel that I am worth someone's full attention, and he is worth mine -- and that we are not "plugging up the occasional holes" in a relationship with other bodies. And that we are -- in an age of lethal STDs -- protecting each other as much as possible.

Open relationships are not for everyone, and not always just open. Sometimes they are a way to hurt the partner passive-aggressively, or to avoid real commitment, or to skirt working through real issues. In the same way monogamy may not always have its virtues, non-monogamy is full of its own brand of relationship perils. I think it is all about where one chooses to take one's risks. It's a whale of a bigger issue than just spreading the love around.

What irks me is some sense that monogamy is portrayed by some folks as "old fashioned", "Vanilla" or "not on the cutting edge." That kind of chatter makes me want to chew nails and spit bullets -- in a ladylike and spiritual kind of way, yanno?.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Poly is The New Gay?

alyssaroyse — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 23:50:53 -0600

Thank you so much for this comment. I keep looking for this topic to pop up more than it does, because I have so many polyamorous friends - people who's relationships are "open" in a wide variety of ways. For years, I have watched them not feel like they could admit it in public, talk about their relationships as openly as they have them, and create private social settings in which they can freely express themselves. I have often thought to myself, "this must be what it feels like to be gay." To have to hide who you are, how you behave, how you love, what you believe. And I find it sad.

But, at the same time, I am so happy to see all of this exploration around me. I am glad for me, and for my daughter, who sees this expansive definition of love all around them.

In general, these are some of the most honest, caring and communicative relationships I know. In order for them to work, they must be.

I have come to the conclusion that monogamy isn't for everyone, and there is no reason for it to be. No more than being gay or straight fits everyone. No more than being "into" a particular kind of partner, or sex is right for everyone. And the freedom to be who you are - in a way that is caring and compassionate to, consensually - with, the people in your life, is one of the thing that allows us to become fully human.

Thank you for your post. This is a conversation that needs to be had. Lovingly.
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

Thanks for the road map

Lovebabz — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:49:24 -0600

I am at the beginning stages of getting ready to divorce and I have been thinking about what my dating life will be like. I was saying to my bestest friend Ron, I am not so sure I want all the commitment and monogamy for a bit. I mean I want to be free to choose or not choose. I want to see someone when I want to. I don't want long-term right now. I know I am new to this---but I wasn't born married and I was married for only 12 years which is long in dog years, but I have recollection of life before marriage and it wasn't sad or pathethic. It was rather interesting and intrigueing. I am listening to you and the others post about this and I am learning and feeling my way. Thanks for the road map...keep talking about this!

Love,
Babz
www.lovebabz.blogspot.com

Loving openly...

Alessia Brio — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:11:27 -0600

... is scary, but for me, it's the only way to go. I want to know that my partner is with me because of who I am, not who I *was* when we got together.

I am a couple years in to a committed partnership that is not monogamous. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

Monogamy is overrated

elwyn — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:57:46 -0600

I am going on 9 years in an open, committed relationship.

Sex and love/relationship are independent. They can go together but they don't have to. What my partner and I have found is similar to what you have said: sexual fidelity is not an essential component of a loving, committed partnership. In fact, an unexamined demand for sexual fidelity can damage relationships, when it is inappropriate for one of the partners.
For example, I am naturally monogamous. I prefer to have sex only with my committed partner. However, he does not feel the same and I do not need him to. He is free to express himself sexually with others, and as long as he is safe about it, it does no harm to our relationship.

The key is to have full communication and everyone on the same page. Two people have to be in honest and open agreement about the nature of the relationship, or it will not survive. If one partner lies to please the other, there will be jealousy and resentment - not to mention betrayal. A polyamorous person may have to choose between the partner they desire and their sexual freedom, if that partner does not wish to share. Feelings and preferences may change over time, and ongoing communication is necessary to maintain the relationship.

I am talking mainly about brief romantic or sexual encounters outside a relationship. Maintaining two independent meaningful relationships is a completely different story. I suspect, as you found, it would be difficult at the very least, and probably impossible for most people. Committed partnership takes time and energy; personally, I cannot imagine taking that on with more than one person.

I would also like to add that occasional extra-curricular activities can have a large positive impact on a relationship. I have rarely been so honored or appreciated as when I "let" my boyfriend spend a weekend with an old "friend-with-benefits" from college. (She sent me a thank-you card!!!) Most of the time, just having the option lights things up; a crush or some serious flirting with someone else can really add spice to a relationship. I know it doesn't work for everyone, especially in our puritan-based, sexually repressed culture, but for myself an open relationship has worked better than anything else - and better than I could have imagined.

--e

... not all who wander are lost...

Not chosing monogamy: Why exclusivity doesn't matter

susan mernit — Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:02:46 -0600

So I decided that I was ready to write an essay about dating more than one person at the same time. When I first got divorced, after being married for so many years, I was pretty clear that I didn’t want to hurry up and be in an exclusive relationship. It made more sense to me to try to meet someone special, but to hold out the possibility of dating others. After all, after so many years of being married, why rush to commit—especially when I didn’t really know what I wanted—or even what kind of person I might be looking for.

My goal back then was to have authentic, committed relationships (if the right people came along), but make sure I didn’t close myself off too early in the cycle to more life experiences and different kinds of men. As I met people and went on dates, I was clear that I was exploring, and I ended up having a relationship with someone who said he felt okay with my seeing others. Inspired, I did some casual dating, but at the point where I had to contemplate having two separate ongoing relationships with two different men, it got really dicey. One person was fine with it (he was also attached to someone else), the other was not and what I learned was that having equally meaningful relationships with two separate people, each 15-40 miles from me (and from one another) was difficult.

After a few weeks of trying to have meaningful relationships with each of them, I realized it was indeed too challenging—instead of feeling like I had choice and freedom, I felt like I was racing between two rivals, each with a scorecard, each waiting for the other to drop out of the running. When I was with Adam, Mark felt neglected; when I was with Mark, Adam resented the time I was not with him. It was a situation that seemed to make my overall life more stressed, even if it was supposed to make my emotional and sexual life richer.

After some reflection, I ended up ending my relationship with each of them. At that point, I gave a lot of thought to whether it was possible to have simultaneous meaningful relationships and if yes, what factors made it work—or not work—and totally re-evaluated how I was managing dating and what kind of relationship(s) I could handle.

These days, I am seeing someone that I am very passionate about. We haven’t discussed it, in absolute terms, but I think we’d both define our relationship as more “open” than “closed.” What this means is that we both understand that, from time to time, one of us may see someone else. At the same time, we both feel that what we’ve evolving is a close, committed relationship-and these things don’t, for where I am right now, seem mutually exclusive.

What is different, however, than three years ago, is that I’ve now kind of let go of the idea of having two separate, but committed relationships fairly equal in scope. In fact, I’ve made the decision not to look for anyone else to date seriously on an ongoing basis. Instead, my interest is in making this fairly new connection work with this person, and seeing where and how our connection can evolve.

And yet, I am writing this essay because I feel no closer to choosing monogamy than I was three years ago, fresh from a break-up and I think that’s something worth talking about. Although I was monogamous and faithful for all the years of my marriage (and a bunch of years before we married), and although I think monogamy is a good life choice (and the mainstream value system for intimate relationships in our culture), I have trouble, at this point in my life, choosing it as a relationship goal for myself, at least in the relationships I see myself having right now.

You see, even if I ended up getting super-serious with the person I am seeing, and decided to move in with him and make a long-term commitment, I just don’t think it would be truthful or wise to also agree to forsake all others. I don’t feel an emotional need to make this sort of promise, because I’ve come to question, okay, I don’t believe, that sexual exclusivity is a determinant for commitment. And I also don’t believe that being in a serious relationship and deeply loving someone always precludes caring for—and choosing to be involved with—someone else. Or that not being sexually exclusive is going to wreak havoc with a committed relationship, no matter what.

What really seems important to me in relationships these days, is not choosing monogamy, but choosing openness, authenticity, trust and communication. Sometimes it seems like living those values is a lot harder to do than choosing exclusivity, but I don’t want to make the promise to honor a commitment I don’t believe that I actually want—or need—to keep. Instead, I want to be honest about what I might or might not do, and expect the same honesty from my partner. I also want to be honest enough to recognize that what matters to me is not an abstract value, but behaving in a way that honors my own beliefs and makes people I love feel safe, valued and comfortable. If that turns out to mean choosing monogamy, I am willing to entertain the possibility, but I suspect my own evolving values will lead me to be closest to other people who want deep commitments but don’t see love and trust as being tied to being exclusive.

How do you feel about exclusivity as part of your relationship choices? What exclusivities do you want? Do you identify as monogamous? Why or why not—sharing in the comments highly encouraged, please.