BlogHer - New Hampshire Primary-Open Thread Discussion - Comments

Mommy, don't vote for a girl!

nelle2nelle — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 18:06:40 -0600

Someone I work with shared this with me... her 4 year old son accompanied her into the voting booth. She asked him who he liked in the election, and told her he liked McCain. He then told his mom she should not vote for a girl, no Hillary!

Ayeee. She gave me details of where this came from (guess) and it just shows how entrenched patriarchy is in opposition to women in high profile leadership positions.

There is something wrong when young men are worried about having to 'endure' living in an environment where a woman is top dog in this nation. For too long we have allowed this attitude to be passed through to new generations, an attitude such that men feel humiliation at someone holding a prestigious position - humiliation felt solely because of gender, of how we should not challenge and mess with men being perceived as societal leaders.

It would be interesting to do a sociological study of the peripheral results of Hillary (assuming she continues to do well) as she moves toward the nomination. Until now, the notion of a woman running for president was rather abstract - no votes were cast. Now... with votes cast, this is real, it CAN happen... and believe it or not, this creates a need for therapists who specialise in helping men reconcile this with their lifelong sense of entitlement.

nelle

HA!

Morra Aarons Mele — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:49:05 -0600

they really did not want Hillary to win, eh?

Funny thing about the woman who asked the question in NH

Kim Pearson — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 09:02:07 -0600

CNN interviewed the woman who asked the question that drew the emotional response from Clinton. She said that she admired Hillary, and was touched by her answer, but she voted for Obama. Her reason was that she was moved to tears twice when she heard him speak at a rally. She expressed surprise that HRC's answer to her question has generated so much conversation, She also expressed surprise at Clinton's win.

Her response may prove to be telling. Hillary impressed her; Obama inspired her. CNN's report on the results picked up a nuance in Clinton and Obama's post-primary remarks. Clinton thanked voters for the confidence they reposed in her, saying that in listening to them, "I found my own voice." Obama said, this isn't about me; it's about us:

"But the reason our campaign has always been different, the reason we began this improbable journey almost a year ago, is because it's not just about what I will do as president," he said "It is also about what you, the people who love this country, the citizens of the United States of America, can do to change it. That's what this election is all about.""

That's why I'm starting more and more to think of Obama's pitch as Presidency 2.0 -- less about one-way communication and direction; more about collaboration and community.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Nelle2Nelle is the story of the night

Erin Kotecki Vest — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 00:23:16 -0600

"Women were the difference makers"-

Nelle YOU are the story tonight. Your vote. Your voice. And like so many it came down to the wire.

Women are indeed the difference makers.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

a few random thoughts about the last few days...

Marilyn — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:45:31 -0600

Kudos to the Clinton campaign for pulling off the NH victory when everyone (pundits) predicted they were 'done.' As an Obama supporter, I'd say this...

* I heard someone tonight (Wes Clark, I think) talk about how exemplary Hillary's "record" is. I must be missing something. She was elected to the Senate in 2000...Obama was elected to the Senate in 2004. So she's running on 4 years more experience, right? Where does the "35 years of change" thing come in? Because if she's gonna count being married to an elected official...then surely he gets to start counting when he was elected the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review (in '90).

* Unprompted from me, my 73-year-old (white) mother said tonight she thought Hillary's tearful moment was staged and that the questioner was a plant. Just sharing that since pundits like to assume that older, white women are automatically for Hillary.

* I've always liked Bill Clinton in many respects (although I think his lack of action in Rwanda forever taints his legacy)...but that "fairy tale" video of him undid decades of goodwill for me. In that moment, he came across to me not as a well-loved (by many) former President, but as a desperate, entitled, arrogant white male who is a very sore loser.

* The "ganging up on Hillary" thing from Saturday night's debate is confusing to me. I watched that segment twice--on the WMUR live feed and again on the West Coast broadcast...didn't that whole thing start because Gibson gave Hillary the opportunity to 'vet' Obama? She started attacking some of his positions, so Barack defended them. Then Edwards jumped on her with the status quo stuff. So if she was attacked, it seemed like it was by Edwards. I didn't see it as the two of them as ganging up on her. Just my take...

I think it's an exciting race! Who wants the whole thing decided after votes from just two small (mostly white) states? I just hope that Hillary's so-called tearful moment didn't sway voters in NH...because if women are going to vote for a woman just because she cries, I think it does a disservice to women.

Alright, Clinton supporters...let's hear your side...

The Land of Moo

Co-Founder of Bloggers for Darfur

I finally watched that "outburst"

Elisa Camahort — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:14:01 -0600

And are you kidding me? That was the outburst? That was the melt-down? That was the tearful moment?

I get more teary watching some commercials.

People must be so used to thinking of Hillary as a robot that any show of emotion seems over the top.

I feel led astray by the media...what a shock.

Elisa Camahort
BlogHer
elisa@blogher.org

NH Voter here...

nelle2nelle — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:09:07 -0600

I wavered on who would get my vote for well over a year. On Saturday, I talked with one dear friend who I trust, is quite active in the community, who was also undecided, and felt this nation was more ready for a black *man* as president than a woman. Interesting observation, mirroring comments of Shirley Chisholm decades ago. Anyway, I sensed she was leaning Hillary.

And later, I asked Denise for her take. Denise doesn't often put her pol views out here, not like I do, shooting my mouth off quite frequently. Usually when she says something, it has much merit, a well considered pov.

So tonight, after fighting traffic to reach the polling station, I walked into the booth, stared at the ballot, stared at Barack's name, then Hillary's name. I thought about how his message resonates with me. I thought about how qualified they are, both. I thought about 215 years of history.

And voted for Hillary.

56% of Republican voters were men, according to an MSNBC exit poll; 57% of Democratic voters were women, giving Hillary a 13% margin. Women were the difference makers.

We've long talked on how vital our votes are. Single women were for Hillary by something like a 19% margin.

For the first time in history, at least as far as I can tell, a woman has one a US presidential primary.

nelle

Some of the comments...

nelle2nelle — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:51:59 -0600

by Chris Matthews were really annoying, playing on this 'emotional outburst' by Clinton over the weekend.

These comments will get worse.

nelle

Media should dine on crow tonight.

Catherine Morgan — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:49:35 -0600

I'm sure they will spin it with the "tears"...they already are.

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

What a night

Erin Kotecki Vest — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:43:31 -0600

I am really anxious to hear the spin, pundits, etc after this one-last poll I saw BEFORE NH was Obama up by 10.

Amazing

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Associated Press calls race to Hillary.

Catherine Morgan — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:41:09 -0600

Contributing Editor Catherine Morgan
also at CatherineBlogs.com and The Political Voices of Women

Thanks, Kim

Maria Niles — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:23:48 -0600

The quality of the discussion in the comments is blowing me away. I'd also encourage folks to read the amazingly smart discussion happening.

I heart Maria Niles' post, "To My white Sisters..."

Kim Pearson — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:19:05 -0600

There is an AMAZING conversation going on at Maria's blog. I know that some of you have read it and responded. I hope more people give her post, and the subsequent comments, careful consideration. I hope she doesn't mind if I excerpt:

"...I love, adore and respect my white sisters but I am disappointed in some of them. A few have said that the power of seeing the first woman in the White House has put Clinton over the top as their candidate. I always point out that they can only say that because they are not black women. That the face of racial equality is male and the face of gender equality is white is nothing new. But to see the promise of Hillary Clinton in the White House without even acknowledging the promise of Barack Obama in the White House is a matter of privilege...."

As Lynne D. Johnson said in her comment,
on Maria's blog, aspects of this conversation are very reminiscent of the split between the suffragists and the abolitionists after the Civil War.

As for me, I'm still undecided. I am impressed by the depth of Hillary's skills. Obama's Iowa speech moved me to tears and his victory did indeed stir an audacious hope. Even now, whether he wins in NH or comes in a close second, he will have achieved something historic.

But each candidate raises questions that I wish we could talk. Here are just a couple of mine:

1. Clinton says that she would not have voted to authorize the President to go to war against Iran if she had known then what she knows now about weapons of mass destruction. In September, she voted for the Lieberman-Kyl amendment to the 2007 Defense Authorization Bill, which many analysts say helps move us closer to war with Iran. Does she still defend that vote in light of the NIE saying hat Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program? And why is it that Obama did not vote at all?

2. Why did Obama vote to reauthorize the PATRIOT ACT?

3. Edwards talks eloquently about his advocacy for the poor, and his concern for the environment. I'd like someone to ask him about his record on environmental justice, poverty and labor rights during his time in the Senate. North Carolina, a largely right-to-work state, is where the environmental justice movement was born. There is a horrific record on workplace safety. Knowing what he did on these issues while in the Senate would help me understand how he puts his principles in action as a political leader.

That's just for starters.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

7pm PST and no Dem declared in NH yet

Erin Kotecki Vest — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:02:32 -0600

nearly 60% of precincts in New Hampshire reporting and still no clear Democratic winner-Clinton and Obama remain within thousands-Clinton ahead at this hour. Amazing!

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Thank you for noting the racist writings under Paul's byline

Kim Pearson — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 20:35:30 -0600

I've seen Paul on Wolf Blitzer's show almost every day over the last couple of weeks, usually talking about foreign policy. Why? And why, whether it's Blitzer, Leno. Charlie Gibson, or any other forum, hasn't he been asked to explain why quotes such as this were published under his byline:

"...Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the "criminal justice system," I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal.

If similar in-depth studies were conducted in other major cities, who doubts that similar results would be produced? We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers...."

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

New Hampshire Primary-Open Thread Discussion

Erin Kotecki Vest — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:03:29 -0600

Candidates are greeting voters, midnight ballots have been cast-the New Hampshire Primary is underway.

According to Wikipedia, New Hampshire is not a closed primary "...in which votes can be cast in a party primary only by people registered with that party. New Hampshire Independents - people not registered with any party - can vote in either party primary. However, it does not meet a common definition of an open primary, because people registered as Republican or Democrat on voting day cannot cast ballots in the primary of the other party."

BlogHer's own Morra Aarons and Mary Katharine Ham have made their predictions, what's yours?

Are you caught up in the gender vs. race discussion with BlogHer's Maria Niles?

Will women go for Republican Mike Huckabee like they did in Iowa?

Share your thoughts, links, ideas, and feelings here in the BlogHer New Hampshire Open Thread Discussion as the Primary unfolds.