BlogHer - BlogHer, the LAPD and Your Right to Cover News - Comments

Outrageous

Browne — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 15:26:08 -0600

I'm not sure how the LAPD can not issue Blogher a press pass. There needs to be some kind of standards set up in regards to who gets a press pass and who does not and not, you're online so you don't get one or we don't like what you talk about is not a standard.

I would like to know which blogs did get press passes.

Browne Molyneux, Lipstick LA

I like the point you make

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:33:49 -0600

I like the point you make Erin, that bloggers and online media are press regardless of their background. We are all able to give different perspectives and report from different angles. We all have something to say, points to make.

I'm still miffed with the LAPD. You and Katy did such a wonderful job last night. I wish you had been give the opportunity to feature the GOP side as well.

Brian! And the LA Fire Department!

Erin Kotecki Vest — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:50:46 -0600

Brian it's fantastic to see you in this forum. Thank you so much for your kind words and for the LAFD's willingness to step into social media, like the department's blog.

You and the LAFD were always a pleasure to work with-and as BlogHer continues to discuss and cover everything from Mommy and Family to news, I have no doubt we'll be on scene together once again.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Congrats and best wishes...

LAFD — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:00:48 -0600

Erin,

Thanks for your many years of local journalism, and especially your willingness to share an awkward but compelling story.

Respectfully Yours in Safety and Service,

Brian Humphrey
Firefighter/Specialist
Public Service Officer
Los Angeles Fire Department

LAFD News Blog: http://lafd.org/blog

You do have a point

fabooj — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:38:38 -0600

I was trying to get into tonight's debates and hadn't even thought of using my "blogger" creds. I got all kinds of emails/texts/IMs this morning chastising me for not using my blogger credentials. Then a friend of mine who works at CNN asked, "Is there a reason you didn't try to pull your old press pass?" Eek! I had completely forgotten about my radio and magazine work, as I didn't consider it "real".

The other bloggers who did get their passes, don't necessarily have widely read blogs, many of them get less hits than mine, but they are journalists and get printed all the time. Therefore, they're not really seen as "bloggers", but as journalists who happen to have a blog.

"I am so perfect so divine so ethereal so surreal. I cannot be comprehended except by my permission. I mean...I...can fly like a bird in the sky." Ego Trippin' by Nikki Giovanni
Visit me at faboo mama

Please tell me not still

fabooj — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:31:10 -0600

That's how it used to be eons ago when I was getting my credentials.

It is a giant can o' worms for sure

Crunchy Carpets — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:43:07 -0600

While it is wonderful that the internet has created a world where we can divulge and read information from a multitude of angles, is it journalism?

What is the definition of journalism? That we are paid for it or that we have a certificate or that we are hired by a 'legitimate' news source?

I think some of that has to be taken into consideration still.....this may be the information age, but having some way to sort the information out there can be helpful.

Not saying that paid news is 'real' news. It just helps to filter the information and the source for the average reader out there.

We are BOMBARDED by information now. With a myriad of agendas attached.

I think online media needs to be recognized for sure...but then there needs to be TYPES of online media....what is a 'news' source and what is 'free information' or something.

Then you have to look at professionalism and ethics IN online media and so on and so on.

Anyway, I lost my train of thought.....

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

"vs" doesn't help anybody

Tish G — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:10:30 -0600

Hi Jill and Erin....

I'm definitely saying let's drop the "vs" thing--let's stop trying to make one kind of
use of these tools more "populist" than the other.

The way I see it, blogging and journalism may exist for different reasons, and one isn't superior. You can be a journalist who knows how to keep a blog and a blogger whose done some journalism on the side. But the overall reasons and motivations for doing each can be very different.

When I write my blog (and one of the reasons for my blog) is to raise points for conversation. I also hate structured writing...

Blogging, IMO, is about exchanging ideas, the art of conversation in a new medium, and cammeraderie. Not about reporting--not about Journalism as it is taught nor perhaps how it is practiced as a profession. And the reason I go in and "cover" an event might be for different reasons than a journalist might have.

The problem, then, in the minds of the powers that be is with the People's conversations going further and gaining more influence beyond the local diner, as much as it is with the hybrid.

I'm sure that the LAPD would have rejected someone with no journalism background who wanted to gain access and write about the debates--and could find more than just bogus reasons to do it. Today, there is a desperate need to control the message and to keep people from talking more than ever before. There's a complete distrust of The People by many institutions both in and outside of the government--and not just in this kind of an instance--that is troubling. We need all sorts of documentation to "prove" that we're citizens when a soc. sec. number used to suffice. So, when it comes down to it, it may end up being easier for orgs like the MBA to help former-and-now-independent journalists like John Spinelli than to help People gain access.

But will we know this if the people fighting for those creds never tell us that they're now or in the past journalists? Or if journalists keep splitting hairs over who in their own profession is or isn't a journalist and thus shut out the independent blogger with their own arguing? The "vs" thing has got to go before we lose a whole lot more than we realize in this moment.

Tish Grier
blogger/consultant/writer
the Constant Observer

Hi Tish

Erin Kotecki Vest — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 11:44:00 -0600

I think we need to be careful when discussing Journalism. Which is why I framed my question as "Are bloggers Press?"

I find bloggers and all online media to be press regardless of their backgrounds. As much as I may not like tabloid press, something like a TMZ or what not, I still think they are media-for better or worse. They cover celeb trials better than other outlets I can name, and frankly should be credentialed to get inside the courtroom. Saves us newsies from having to do it, too.

The reason I find my journalist background prudent to this case isn't because I think someone without it should be out in the cold, but because i'st affording me the opportunity to have already been vetted by the LAPD and deemed NOT a terrorist or trouble maker. If the LAPD's reasoning for failing to credential bloggers based on not knowing if they will pull a "Gizmodo"- my previous background check by them, which was approved, deems their argument invalid.

Had I been a self-made blogger, with no history with the LAPD, I would have filed for a new press pass, and been subject to the checks, etc.

I think it's valid to want to know what LAPD would have done with someone applying for the first time, and it's my understanding they are denying those requests as well.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Hi Tish

Jill Miller Zimon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:45:50 -0600

You make a very good point.

My experience in Ohio has been that I've been a journalist - was on the SPJ board until earlier this month, and I've called myself a freelance writer, editor and blogger. I haven't called myself a journalist so much only because I do not have a formal education in it but I don't think I shy away from using it - but your post is making me be more thoughtful about that, certainly going forward. I'm proud of the journalism work AND the blogging work I do.

John Spinelli was indeed a traditional journalist with full credentials who now does his work online. Bill Sloat is another journalist who is now a blogger and he is well-known as being both.

I don't actually know specifically of anyone in Ohio who has tried to hide the journalism part of their work. I've experienced the problem more as one that involves a resistance to accepting hybrids - not knowing what to do with people who have multiple platforms on which they work or provide their writing. And this is a familiar problem to me because when I was finishing up grad school with a jt degree in law and social work, I often had people say, "That's so interesting! But we don't where we'd "put" you."

I don't know if any of that is helpful - I think you and I are pretty much promoting the same thing - just get rid of the labels, but also, I think you are saying, drop the "versus" part too?

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Let's make a few distinctions here....

Tish G — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:12:03 -0600

I always wonder why it is that people who used to be "official" journalists want to hide that fact underneath the blogger mantle. What's with the denials and lack of transparency? The simple fact that someone has been a journalist is quite different from some of us who's started blogging and built their reputation in this medium without ever being any where near a journalism class or newsroom...

It's similar with the Ohio folks, who also are journalists. They are now working independently, and perhaps it's this independence that the establish press hates--not that they are "bloggers."

Rarely do I see former journalists who are now bloggers ever mention that they have been journalists. Why is that? And if they did mention this small fact, esp. in a situation like this, would the outcome be different?

In other words: if journalists who are in new media stopped hiding behind the term "blogger," and mentioned that they used to be press, would they get their press creds without a fight?

Perhaps this really isn't a question of "is blogging journalism?" or "are bloggers journalists?" inasmuch as it is whether or not journalists who are now independent and using different tools are perceived differently from journalists who are still employed by newspapers.

And the sway that old media and other power structures have in our supposedly "free" press...

So pleas stop phrasing these sorts of issues as a blogger/journalist thing or an "is blogging journalism" thing. That's just clouding something that might be more a war among journalists of different stripes. In the end, independent, self-made bloggers like myself might still get stuck out in the cold when it comes to press passes.

Tish Grier
blogger/consultant/writer
The Constant Observer
http://spap-oop.blogspot.com

Ohio Statehouse Press Corps Rejects OhioNews Bureau

John Michael Spinelli — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:34:51 -0600

As Jill pointed out, the battle here in Ohio over who is a "responsible reporter" for purposes of Statehouse accreditation, which provides the privilege of access to the floors of the Senate and House, is just beginning. To catch up on the four-month volley between the OhioNews Bureau of ePluribus Media.org and the Statehouse press corps (a.ka. the Ohio Legislative Correspondents Association or OLCA) that ended in our being rejected based on their subjective judgment that we are "politically biased" and do not "adhere to the high standards of journalism" found in their constitution, check it out here.

Jill also pointed out that in addition to not letting a former three-year member-in-good-standing like me into their ranks who would constitute their first ever new-media journalist, the president of the group told me in an email Wednesday that he wouldn't even grant me the courtesy of a one-day press pass to cover Ohio Governor Ted Strickland's State of the State address on February 6th. He provided no other explanation. But given the "no further comment" response we received from him on behalf of his board to important questions we asked in seeking more understanding of why we werre rejected, I wasn't surprised by his totally inadequate and lame decision. He then directed me to the House gallery, which is open to the public, to cover the governor's address.

Meanwhile, in our view, he and his board members are in stark violation of not enforcing the conflict of interest provisions in the group's constitution and bylaws. Nearly all their member reporters work for newspapers that belong to the Ohio Newspaper Association, which lobbies the legislature. A reporter cannot have business before the legislature, nor can the organization they work for. But that's exactly the case, as we see it. Furthermore, OLCA's constitution has no specific language defining what constitute "high standards of journalism," the basis upon which we were denied membership. Clearly, new-media journalists and bloggers are held to different standards.

The Statehouse press corps has won the first two skirmishes of credentialing; but the battle is just starting. I think they've lit the fuse that will come back to blow up their vested-interest redoubt of exclusion.

Through Jill's help, Bob Cox at Media Bloggers Association contacted me and offered his help. New-media journalists like myself and those who have commented here should be proud of blazing new trails, challenging media monasteries like OLCA or the LAPD and advancing the notion that you don;'t have to work for a legacy print media group or kowtow to unreasonable or politically jaundiced gatekeepers to be a responsible and respected journalist.

If anyone has ideas or suggestions for tactics or strategies we should employ going forward, we'd love to hear from you. Contact us at ohionews@epluribusmedia.org. John Michael Spinelli, OhioNews Bureau Chief (the "gentleman" Jill referred to in her post).

I wrote about this

suebob — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:22:27 -0600

Over at Red Stapler. My main point is that I get ALL my news, outside of NPR, online, not via print or TV.

Unbelievable and yet Believable

GeekMommy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:56:54 -0600

Honestly.

One more example, I'd say of the proverbial "digital divide" - where those who are not interactive and involved online have no idea of the impact that the online press has.

"What? You mean people read the news online? You're kidding right?"

Hoping they figure it out sooner rather than later. Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

L Pruitt
Raising a child in a digital world, still a digital girl

Done Kim

Erin Kotecki Vest — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:17:59 -0600

Thanks, my head is still spinning and Poynter was on my list.

Thanks,

Erin

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

BlogHer, the LAPD and Your Right to Cover News

Erin Kotecki Vest — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:20:08 -0600

Are bloggers press?

That is the question we're asking ourselves at BlogHer today as Morra Aarons will (wo)man the open thread discussion on tonight's CNN/LA Times/Politico GOP debate in Simi Valley, California.

Stepping outside of my usual news-only posts, I am writing today as BlogHer's Election '08 Producer. You see, the coverage of the Los Angeles-area GOP debate was not supposed to be *just* an open thread by Morra. It was my job to secure credentials for BlogHer to attend tonight's event. BlogHer's Katy Chen and I planned on posting a video from the Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley-much like you saw with BlogHer's Mary Katharine Ham and Morra Aarons from New Hampshire.

Organizers of the event credentialed BlogHer.com to cover the GOP debate, but required all credentials be picked up with a "law enforcement issued press pass."

However, the Los Angeles Police Department denied credentials to both Katy and I on the grounds we are "online media" and BlogHer.com was not throughly investigated by the LAPD. This decision came suddenly after weeks of talks with LAPD personnel and assurances that Katy and I, as former Los Angeles news reporters, would be applying for a press pass "renewal" as we were simply changing our media affiliation.

Normally any new reporter would have to go through a background check and fingerprinting before being issued credentials, but as Katy and I have already been through this process and had been issued credentials for previous employers, we were told it was only a matter of "pulling us up in the system" and issuing stickers for 2008-2010.

BlogHer.com made all the necessary arrangements from passport photos to signed letters stating Katy and I were BlogHer employees and would indeed be covering events and news inside Los Angeles. We were told to contact LAPD on Monday morning, as the woman who issues the press passes would be in at 6:30am specifically to renew media for the next two days as "everyone is coming in getting them for the GOP debate, we'll be doing it all day and night."

Monday morning came, and I called as instructed and spoke with LAPD media relations in order to set my appointment time for renewal that day. It was then I was told "we've never heard of you or this blogher thing and you need a background check."

I explained Katy and I had completed all the necessary steps, were instructed to bring our new employment letter to the police station, and that we can both be found in the LAPD "system."

I was then told "...this is online, right? We're not doing online. You have to submit the employer and show me three months of coverage in Los Angeles and I have to look at it before I can give you passes."

To be honest, I was thrown. Here we had spoken to LAPD personnel, checking and double checking for weeks if we had prepared properly and were being told, two days before the event, we had to submit three months worth of coverage and find a way to show "via tape or print" BlogHer.com's amazing coverage.

I offered to hand-deliver links, printed pages of the site and to assist in anyway possible in showing BlogHer.com as a legitimate source of information.

I was told there was no need, "submit it all by mail and I'll review it and get back to you." I asked if I could FedEx documents, given the rush and was again rebuffed with, "there is no need, I'm not going to get to it. It could take months."

Frustrated and confused I hung up with LAPD, promising to send in our information via snail mail soon. Then I made a few more calls, and this is where the real story begins.

As luck would have it, Katy and I have had the good fortune of working for several news outlets in Los Angeles. We've gotten to know many news directors , anchors, and reporters over the years. Katy and I began calling and emailing past colleagues.

My first call was to the President of the Radio and Television News Directors Association or RTNDA. It was then I learned of the ongoing battle between the LAPD and media. I was told the RTNDA and LAPD agreed last year to come up with a system for issuing credentials to bloggers and failed to reach an agreement. In the meantime, RTNDA and LAPD agreed to put online media through the same background check and fingerprinting as main stream media and they would issue press passes on a case by case basis. I was told given Katy and my background in Los Angeles news media this should not have been an issue.

Furthermore, after talking to several local news directors, the LAPD personnel's claim of "not knowing who we were" was contradicted. Each news director told me they had been approached by the LAPD and specifically asked about myself and Katy-if they knew us, when we worked for them, etc.

The confusion over the subject had Katy and I contacting the LA County Sheriff's department and the California Highway Patrol to see if they would credential us in time for the debate. New background checks were needed for the LA Sheriff's as they do not use the same system as the LAPD, and the turn-around time was months.

Then the emails and calls TO us began. I received several offers from local and national media to help us out. They would write letters saying we were their employees. They would give us unused 2008-2010 stickers. They would even let us take their well-known anchor's pass (a man) up to the check in point of the library, simply to make a statement.

I politely and with much gratitude decline their offers, and agreed with each offering party that we would tackle this together, formally, as media brethren.

We're not the only ones who have faced this issue. Frank Russo tackled this with the California Legislature in March of last year.

I understand with every new medium there are some growing pains. There is debate to be had over which entities can call themselves "media" and which are not. Over what constitutes a "legitimate" news or information source and what is just one woman and her blog, with no readers. But there is something to be said about that one woman and her blog, utilizing the freedom of the press and the officials she elects and tax dollars she contributes.

I encourage you to engage in this debate online and with your local, city, and state officials. Katy and I will mail the necessary requirements to the LAPD and wait for the results.

Tomorrow we WILL be covering the Democratic debate at the Kodak Theater in Hollywood, as they have credentialed us without law enforcement press passes. In comparison, before I even submitted our social security numbers to organizers for the event, I received a "we'd be pleased to have you" response almost overnight.

I'd like to thank the Ronald Reagan Library for welcoming BlogHer.com and apologize for our absence tonight. And I'd be remiss to not publicly thank the various Los Angeles news departments that offered us their support, help, and who even vouched for us with the LAPD. I'm encouraged to see the old guard embrace and encourage the new, proving to me, once again, it's all about community-online or otherwise.