BlogHer - 62 percent claim to be "deeply spiritual" - Comments

Tolerance for diversity

Mata H — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:44:50 -0500

Hi Alyce -

It is my deep belief that good people, faithful people, can be led to very different positions on the same issue -- and that they may both passionately believe that they are 'right'. For example, to chose one of the least volatile of the issues that could point to this: the ordination of women.

You original question was why I felt that 'why so many conservative evangelicals feel that is the only way to be a Christian?'. If I look at the ordination of women, there are at least two groups with strong opinions -- one that opposes it, one that wants it. Both could have reached this decision prayerfully, and both could believe that they are acting in the way Christ would want them to. Yet, it is absolutely true in the past and in denominations other than my own, that I have been accused of being less than Christian for supporting the ordination of women, and that I have been told that I am doing something wrong, sinful and hell-worthy by believing as I do. I am happy to engage in dialog with those who are of different belief from my own. But dialog and dogma can rarely co-exist. Truly not all conservative evangelical Christians show such behavior.

But I am also alarmed by the number of fringe groups that are advocating some very scary things that use conservative, Christian, evangelical language to support their positions.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Conservative/liberal

seriouslysuthrn — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:54:48 -0500

Thanks for responding Mata,
I am actually familiar with that poll.
The point you made concerning 'I see conservatives as' speaks to just exactly how we go about getting our so-called world-view or presuppositions. We all do; from a vast collections of experiences, both good and bad, interactions from mentors/teachers and from my personal experience-my personal experience with God, as the Holy Spirit continually changes and teaches me. Not that I have 'attained-but I press on.' However, until I engage/interact with what I 'define' in my own mind as a liberal (whether theological/political/cultural) then I remain trapped in my presuppositions and unable to break free and engage that human being in love, the way God would have me engage them.
Again, the point you make about conservatives-sounds very 'political' and while I believe I am called to make informed decisions, be thoughtful, respectful and seek God concerning His will in all matters-I yeild my will in these matters (politically speaking) to the will of God as He directs me-not to a political party or group. In other words-my allegiance is to my Lord Jesus Christ and none other.
Agape

Alyce, we may differ

Mata H — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:19:35 -0500

Hi Alyce

The way that I might define my faith as different from the Wikipedia definition is that I see conservatives as very involved in scrutinizing and judging the lives of others -- and judging them as "Christian" by whether or not their behavior matches a very personal list of assumptions. For example, you and I may well differ about the relevance of a "personal experience of conversion", or what constitutes a "Biblically oriented faith" (some might insist that if one does not interpret scripture along certain literal lines, that one is not Christian. Yet those lines can differ even among conservatives.) You might find a post interesting that was made a while ago about a study done at Baylor about the different ways that people perceive God. You can see it by clicking here

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs relentlessly at Time's Fool

Why is it a choice?

seriouslysuthrn — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:36:56 -0500

Mata, explain what you mean when you say 'why so many conservative evangelicals feel that is the only way to be a christian?' Perhaps I need your defination of conservative evangelical AND the only way. :) Here's how Wikipedia defines it: "Evangelicalism is typified by an emphasis on evangelism, a personal experience of conversion, biblically oriented faith and a belief in the relevance of Christian faith to cultural issues." Is this your defination as well.
Thanks
Alyce

Why is it a choice between

Mata H — Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:17:00 -0500

Why is it a choice between "spiritual" and "evangelical"? I am not a conservative Christian, but I sure am a Christian, not just " spiritual". What I would like to ask is why so many conservative Evangelicals feel that is the ONLY way to be a Christian? I just do not understand that.

Mata H

~~~Blogging relentlessly at Time's Fool

La Shawn, I love your post.

Shannon Nelson — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:53:59 -0500

La Shawn,

I love your post. I definitely think there are so many people, including the media, that act like it "in" to be spiritual but it is "out" to be evangelical. They just don't get it. :(

LBB (who is an Evangelical)
Saving the moisturized-impaired one shea butter at a time.

Spirituality

hunt8088 — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:55:37 -0500

I believe that spirituality is a belief that God lives within us. I read a beautiful poem when I was redesigning my life that was entitled "The Monument" In essence it talks about when each of us were born we were given a special set of challenges that only we can solve and that our monument to God is finding the answers to those challenges. We show the world who we are by letting God's light shine through us for without his divine love we would be but mortal humans.

amen amen

Mata H — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:02:54 -0600

I hear you DesiGal -- If all world religions believed that " everything/everyone in the universe is interconnected, through an all-encompassing consciousness", I think they would be right. I might call that consciousness "God" or "Our mutual Createdness" but my belief probably does not differ much from yours although the language we use to describe it may differ.

Belinda - yes indeedy -- I agree and just do not understand how the dissing od decent people moves the world forward at all.

To clarify, I was talking on

nelle2nelle — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:02:37 -0600

To clarify, I was talking on a forum thread, not the religion and spirituality section of blogher. And in fact, was not my intent to imply any religion should be excluded. Rather, it was to say all beliefs are welcome... only that we hear so little on those of us who carry things private, I was encouraging those who do to come on out and share as well.

Hope that helps.

nelle

DesiGal illustrates the dissonance for me:

ninjapoodles — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:12:02 -0600

"one of those New Agers that religious conservatives like to diss..."

And that, precisely, is what I don't get. How are you serving your faith if you are "dissing" someone else's? That practice has always struck a bad chord with me.

And even if your faith is an evangelistic one, exhorting its folowers to bring others to your God (mine is), how in the world is this served by alienating half the world at a whack? It just doesn't make sense.

Belinda

Spiritual

DesiGal — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:47:46 -0600

I consider myself spiritual even though I don't formally pray to a God... I think everything/everyone in the universe is interconnected, through an all-encompassing consciousness. I strongly believe in ethics, and doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do. I classify myself an agnostic with a Hindu culture, because Hinduism is what I was raised within. In terms of exclusivist religion, I guess I'm one of those New Agers that religious conservatives like to diss, but this is what I'm really happiest being. Really.

Priya Ramachandran
Blogher Contributing Editor - South East Asia
Words on Water

I agree with Mata as well.

Marti — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 11:22:03 -0600

I agree with Mata as well.

I suspect if Jesus Christ appeared on Earth today, he would have to pull an awful lot of folks who call themselves "Christians" aside, and have a little chat with them to clear up some of their misconceptions about following his teachings - LOL

Blessings to all of you. This is a delightful and enlightening conversation.

Marti

Same here, Mata. It makes

ninjapoodles — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:36:01 -0600

Same here, Mata. It makes me sad, and tired. Some days I speak up, and some days I don't. I feel bad that the only Christians some people ever hear about are people like Pat Robertson, and just want them to know that that's not the universal truth.

And being tolerant and accepting of other faiths does not mean that you have to deny or hide your own. Except when it does, I guess. But I certainly knew what you meant.

Belinda

sigh

Mata H — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 21:59:34 -0600

I guess I have a problem if people assume that because I have an affiliation (however loosely) to a denomination that happens to be Christian that :
1. I am intolerant of other traditions
2. that I think spirituality is only defined as (a) Christianity (b) denominationalism, or (c) neocon evangelicals
3. that I really 'don't get' the scope of spirituality
4. that I believe whatever the people believed who treated her badly in organized religion
5. that I secretly am planning to convert her
6. that I must be intellectually limited and/or anti-intellectual

So we should not discuss

ninjapoodles — Sun, 26 Mar 2006 01:46:53 -0600

So we should not discuss individual faiths? Sorry, I wasn't in on the "reasons the forum was started." Maybe these things should be posted somewhere so we don't post things that offend people. I guess I thought I spirituality forum would encompass all spiritualities. Sorry. I apologize to anyone whose toes I stepped on unintentionally. I'll do my best so it doesn't happen again, and if there are some "guidelines" to posting and discussion, I'd appreciate someone pointing them out. Thanks.

Belinda

62 percent claim to be "deeply spiritual"

La Shawn — Tue, 14 Mar 2006 12:47:59 -0600

Whatever that means. And there's the rub.

From Barna's latest research, presented in an article titled, Americans Reveal Their Top Priority in Life:

By far the top priority listed by adults - named by half of the population (51%) - was their family. Some segments were especially likely to list family as their highest commitment: people with children under the age of 18 living in their home (74%), adults in their twenties and thirties (67%), those who are married (61%), Catholics (60%), and Hispanics (60%). Several people groups were much less likely to place family at the top of their list. Those groups included people 60 or older (36%), singles (37%), African-Americans (39%), and Asians (39%).

Faith was the runner-up category, listed by 16% of all adults. This included a wide-ranging set of commitments, such as connecting with God, living consistently with one's faith principles, having peace with God, being a committed church member, honoring God, and growing in faith.

Being "spiritual" is trendy, but there's no clear definition of what that means. Is it a belief in God or a god? How is this spirituality practiced? What does it look like?

Barna found a disconnect between what people do and what they say. Nothing grounding-breaking there. It's part of the human condition. A prime example is similar to one cited in the article: I always find it sadly amusing when a trash-mouthed rapper with scantily-clad, rump-shaker background dancers thanks "God" after he wins an award.

"It seems as if God is in, but living for God is not," George Barna said. More precisely, god is in, but the living God is not. Christians have a term for living and growing in Christ as opposed to paying lip service to "spirituality": discipleship. A disciple is a follower, one who helps spread the teachings of others. A Christian disciple is one who spreads the Gospel of Jesus Christ and is, by nature, an evangelical.

The Bible teaches that once we're forgiven and become one of God's own, he begins to mold and shape us. We begin to live for him, and he lives through us. The goal is to make us "Christ-like," and in these fallen bodies with with our fallen nature, the "pruning" process is sometimes painful, often joyous, and always righteous.