BlogHer - Is the 2008 presidential election bad for feminism? - Comments

Right - the same thing is happening

Denise — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:58:12 -0600

Which was my point.

Feminists who support Clinton are being called racist.

Whatshername says we need to address the racism of white feminist women. I could turn around and say we need to address the misogyny of everyone who isn't supporting Clinton but I don't think it's that simple, do you?

You can be an advocate for feminism and still vote Obama. I can be an advocate of racial equality and still support Clinton (or even McCain). :-)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Whatsername's Comment

whattamisaid — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:20:03 -0600

Can't speak for her, but I read Whatsername's comment as a confirmation that just as sexism has played a powerful role in how the electorate views Hillary Clinton and her candidacy, race has played a powerful role in how the electorate views Barack Obama and his candidacy. Part of my disappointment is that many white feminists I have encountered recognize and decry the sexism, but don't see and/or perpetuate the racism. And I know you can totally make a similar case re: black men and women who see the racism, but not the sexism in the campaign.

racism of white feminists

Denise — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 09:01:37 -0600

So I, as a feminist, who refused to vote for Obama because I do not believe he will make a good president makes me a racist?

Or am I not understanding your point?

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

I think in the long run this

whatsername — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 22:05:06 -0600

I think in the long run this will be a good thing.

The racism of white feminists needs to be addressed. Our ability to ignore it does also.

I think the actions around this election will make that crystal clear for many, and not just feminists of color.

~whatsername~

You both make really good points

Jill Miller Zimon — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:40:24 -0600

That need to be written and read, thank you.

I posted a link that in a different thread a few days ago for Maria about the African-American congresswoman for my congressional district, Stephanie Tubbs Jones and how she is heartily for Clinton. I didn't get it on video but I heard her say it again in the spin room last night - she is firmly behind Clinton.

Now - it's being guesses that her district is going to go for Obama 3 or 4 to 1. And people are asking will she and/or should she switch.

She is one tough person, but the pressure must be huge.

And how do we imagine it feels to be her? She is, of course, also a superdelegate - so she could vote for Hillary as her person but for Obama to represent her district? Or - what about the 25-33% of her district who want Clinton - can she justify superdelegate vote that way?

I don't know - I can see rationales for pretty much whatever she does. And in cases like that, I think she has to do what she feels is best - problem is, a LOT of us just aren't SURE what that is!

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

It's in all of our heads

Denise — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:18:00 -0600

And it isn't just related to "feminism" or "race" - it can be any big issue.

Dana and any other anti-choice person who votes democrat will be labeled a traitor to the cause for voting democrat.

I'm going to get labeled a traitor to choice, race, and queerhood if I end up voting for McCain in the fall. My partner, a lesbian republican, constantly is told by the "sisterhood" that she either can't be a dyke or she can't be a republican.

There is always division when there are issues that we feel very strongly about.

For you, making a feminist statement does not trump - whatever it was that leads you to support Obama. For Dana, making an anti choice statement did not trump whatever it was that caused her to vote for Obama. Such is life, we choose our big issues and we vote accordingly and when we do, we often shock, dismay, hurt and disappoint those who thought we were "like them".

I can live with that and so can you. It's your right as a citizen of this country to make your choice, for whatever reason - even if it's the wrong choice. ;-) (that's a joke -- sort of, lol)

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

It's all in my head

whattamisaid — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:40:12 -0600

Denise,

What makes this tough for me is my expectations: I expect there to be divisions between races, but I had until recently perhaps a naive view of what to expect from fellow feminists and progressives. The dissension that I see has shaken me.

That said, I do believe that the success of both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is a very good thing. They are both great candidates in my eyes.

Turn it around

Denise — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:57:52 -0600

Go back and write the post again from the other angle.

"Is the 2008 presidential election bad for racial equality"

The answer to that question and your original question is of course. But that doesn't mean Clinton shouldn't be running and that doesn't mean Obama shouldn't be running.

The scars, both race and gender, will probably not heal in my lifetime. But that's ok. I'm a fan of scars. They're often very necessary.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Is the 2008 presidential election bad for feminism?

whattamisaid — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 13:26:44 -0600

(Originally posted at www.whattamisaid.blogspot.com)

I hear you out there--wondering if I'm crazy.

How can having a smart and accomplished woman a hair's breadth away from the Democratic nomination be bad for feminism? How can having America's ingrained gender prejudices dragged into the light be bad for feminism? I'll tell you how:

The 2008 presidential election could be bad for feminism because as it has put a capable woman in the national spotlight and uncovered gender bias, it has also revealed and given voice to the prejudices of mainstream feminism. And those prejudices are alienating women who passionately want equality.

I firmly believe that marginalized groups--women, people of color, GLBT folks, immigrants, etc.--ought to have uncommon empathy for each other and should work together towards the common goal of equality. That's why I am saddened when I hear some of my black sisters and brothers spouting homophobic rhetoric, and equally distressed when I see how some in the white gay community have embraced the patently offensive Shirley Q. Liquor character. We're not going to get to the mountain top that way.

But it never fails to amaze me how tone deaf one group of marginalized people can be to the plight of other oppressed groups. The Democratic nomination, which has a white woman competing with a black man, has left me feeling that my acceptance by many white feminist sisters is predicated on my marching in lock step with the mainstream and ignoring my black self. I am frustrated and angry--angry enough to take the word "feminist" out of my blog profile. And on the eve of a Women's History Month blog carnival dedicated to healing tensions within the movement (http://womencometogether.blogspot.com), I am still too frustrated to put it back.

I am angry because whether it is Gloria Steinem in The New York Times, Erica Jong on Huffington Post, or random posters on feminist and progressive Web sites, I am being subtly and not-so-subtly told that:

- Racism is not as important as sexism
- A vote for Hillary Clinton is the only history-making vote at stake
- White women are more oppressed as a group than black men
- The only vote for true feminists is a vote for Hillary Clinton
- Feminist = white woman
- The needs of black women don't count
- Black people who vote for Barack Obama are doing so only because of his race
- Other people who vote for Barack Obama (women and men) are doing so only because of misogyny

Consider the not-so-uncommon comment from a Feministing poster re: Tina Fey's "Bitch is the new black" bit on last Saturday's SNL:

"As feminists, we have worked our whole lives for this moment. Our foremothers fought for us to have this moment. We have an amazing woman running for the office of the president. Not just any woman running, but the most
qualified candidate in years. I cannnot believe the cowardly way women are rolling over to appease the male media. Don't vote your vagina, but no one is saying don't vote your skin color. On the contrary what black man or woman is
not voting for Obama (90%!)? Which I fully support as they have fought their whole lives for this moment. But they have vision and clarity, and we are chcken shits. We lack the courage of our convictions to make this moment ours. I am proud of black America right now, but disgusted by women.

I don't really get the lame "I can vote who I want" BS as it is just a way to appease your mind that you failed to act. Excuse it all you like, in history, you prevented a great moment from happening. One that we could have shared with our daughters. But now, our daughters know, they are not able to be representations of "cool" "hip" r "inspirationsal". What this election has shown us is we all end up shrill, bitchy, women. Thank you feminsts, what a legacy we have created for the future.

When the weaker candidate messes up in his first term, I will be sure to proudly disply my "Don't blame me, I voted for Hillary" bumper sticker! "

Notice how black women are grouped with black men as "other." Notice that the appeal to "vote Hillary for our daughters" seems not to include mothers of black or bi-racial children. Frankly, I think either a Clinton or Obama win will send a powerful message to my young stepdaughter and my nieces. Notice how the fact that Hillary Clinton once held the majority of the black vote, particularly the black female vote, has been forgotten. Now all black people are voting for Obama, the once "not black enough" candidate, out of racial fealty. Notice how Obama, despite having more legislative experience than Clinton (11 years vs. seven), is being painted as a figurative "affirmative action hire" with few skills and a free ride.

This is why I am angry: Because it seems like some of my white feminist sisters are beckoning me to join the movement with one hand, while throwing racist bombs with the other; and because my feminist bonafides are questioned, yet Hillary Clinton can stand on stage with Bob Johnson who made his fortune by denigrating black women as bitches, hoes and sex objects and still be a feminist icon.

I am alienated from the feminist movement. And I am hurt. And many women like me feel similarly. So, where will we all be after the Democratic convention, when we have to go back to fighting together for equal pay, reproductive rights and other issues? How long will the scars take to heal? My experience over the last few months, I admit, has colored my view of feminism and left me searching for something else--some other movement that will embrace me as I embrace it. If women like me are doing the same, what does that mean for the feminist movement?

I know we have to come together. But how?