BlogHer - Farrakhan is to Obama as Hagee is to McCain? - Comments

So naive

Jill Miller Zimon — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 22:34:16 -0600

Thanks for sharing that, Dana. Wow - see - I always figure that I have traveled enough, asked enough questions, read enough, watched enough, seen enough not to want to ask, "Really?? You are kidding, right??" re: "Or when I tell them that I have ancestors who were Polish Jews, and I get the spiel, "Well, obviously they were smart enough to convert to Christianity."

I just can never believe people say that. The stories about people looking for horns on Jews' heads etc. But I know, I know - they're all true. I just can't believe it. Even at 45. I just cannot believe it, even when I see some of the absolutely hateful sites on the Internet.

Sigh - I know they are out there in regard to many different minorities - whether it's religion, race, gender and so on. This is probably a topic for another thread. It's part of what causes me to have issues with religion in general.

I think the person does live in a bubble, but he is certain that he is helping save the world, not suprisingly.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Thanks for this link. I

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:24:49 -0600

Thanks for this link. I still think it's bogus, especially after he said he was proud to have Hagee's support. I just don't get that.

I remember reading something

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 20:23:39 -0600

I remember reading something similar about Hagee's remarks after Hurricane Katrina and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. It's like the man is literally living in the Bible.

McCain backing away from Pastor Hagee

Kim Pearson — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:59:31 -0600

The Wall Street Journal has a story quoting McCain as saying he disagrees with Hagee's views.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Just re-reading some of what's been written about Hagee

Kim Pearson — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 19:56:58 -0600

I wonder what Sen. McCain and Gov. Huckabee have to say about this:

"All hurricanes are acts of God, because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.

"The newspaper carried the story in our local area, that was not carried nationally, that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it would was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other gay pride parades.

"So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the Day of Judgment, and I believe that the Hurricane Katrina was, in fact, the judgment of God against the city of New Orleans."

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Jill, the person you

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:47:02 -0600

Jill, the person you describe sounds like he lives in a bubble.

I get so angry when I hear people making insulting remarks about Judaism. And sometimes, they think it's okay to make those comments to me, as if I won't get mad because I'm Catholic.

And then, if that isn't enough, they look at me like I'm an alien when I remind them that Jesus was a Jew, and how it insults me that they would say such wretched things about him and his people.

Or when I tell them that I have ancestors who were Polish Jews, and I get the spiel, "Well, obviously they were smart enough to convert to Christianity." (Before I have the chance to tell them several of my ancestors died in the Holocaust, of course.)

There really are people in this world who promote such hatred. It's infuriating.

This Hagee is pure evil, I think. For him to say such despicable things..... I can't believe McCain is happy to receive his support. Ugh.

Wow - thank you

Jill Miller Zimon — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:26:11 -0600

I know/knew very little about Hagee - this is incredibly eye-opening and I agree with you - it is a double-standard.

When I was blogging on a now defunct political blog called Wide Open, we were two left-leaners and two right-leaners. One of the righties gets into the Muslim stuff in the worst way, name-calling and really, wretched stuff along those lines. Well when he was going on his tear about how awful a certain Muslim would be for Ohioans and he was all upset that as a Jew, I wasn't upset too (talk about more blatantly wrong assumptions - like, because I am Jewish I support everything Israel does or whatever), AND that I wasn't thanking him and all the Christians who seek out and destroy anyone who is Muslim (I am exaggerating a bit here - but he is overzealous in his defense in the name of protecting Jews).

And so at one point, we had this heated comment thread where I told him that I wished he excoriate anti-Semitic Christians as regularly and as vehemently as he does any and all Muslims. And you know what he wrote? He wrote that there's just so little anti-Semitism now that that's not necessary.

Yes - I fell off my chair when I read that.

Anyway - thank you - there is a serious blind-spot on this.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

You are right, initially

Dana J. Tuszke — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 08:24:23 -0600

You are right, initially Huckabee did want Hagee's endorsement, but so many Catholics and Catholic organizations began to outcry and demanded that Huckabee renounce Hagee's support. I'm sure Huckabee feels slighted because those same Catholic orgs aren't doing the same for McCain. Aside from Bill Donohue, of course.

I find it very dangerous that Hagee is so adamant that the US invades Iran to bring on "End Times". Is McCain losing his mind? Will he actually consider this? I'm tired of sending innocent military to the Middle East to fight a battle that isn't really ours to fight.

I know I probably sound like a Catholic who doesn't want to help Israel, but that is not the case. I just don't think another useless war is the answer.

I thought Huckabee wanted Hagee's support

Kim Pearson — Fri, 29 Feb 2008 06:32:09 -0600

At least that's what I understood from the articles I've read. I see that the president of the Catholic League, Bill Donohue has "blasted" Mc Cain for accepting Hagee's endorsement. He called upon McCain to follow Obama's example. Catholics United was also critical. It will be very interesting to see where this goes.

This quote from McCain is in the Reuters story on the candidate's website:

"I'm very honored by Pastor John Hagee's endorsement today," McCain said at a news conference. "He has been the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement in many areas, but especially, most especially, his close ties and advocacy for the freedom and independence of the state of Israel."

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Kim, I couldn't sit back and

Dana J. Tuszke — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 23:47:33 -0600

Kim, I couldn't sit back and ignore this, even if the mainstream media can. It's revolting that McCain actually embraces this nut job, Hagee. What's worse is that it doesn't surprise me at all, that McCain would swoon over this guy's support. It's sad, really.

I hope that Huckabee realizes he made the right choice in rejecting Hagee's support. If only McCain would realize that.

My Catholic brothers and sisters of my parish are up in arms over this, and rightly so. I think many of them voted for McCain because of his pro-life stance. I'm worried about this, especially now that they see what they're getting. Ugh.

Glad you brought up the Rev. Hagee

Kim Pearson — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 22:42:44 -0600

In a post on my blog last year, I asked why he wasn't getting more attention. At that time, I was reading articles about his relationship with Sen. Joe Lieberman. I noticed that former Gov. Huckabee is upset that Hagee favored McCain over him. I wonder whether this will cause any tension within the Republican party? Conservative Catholics were an important constituency in 2004, if I remember correctly.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Farrakhan is to Obama as Hagee is to McCain?

Dana J. Tuszke — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 21:09:06 -0600

Tuesday night, I sat down to watch the Democratic primary debate on MSNBC. Unfortunately, my 3-year-old decided to pitch a fit because I had the audacity to turn off SpongeBob again, to watch "da boring pot ticks."

Needless to say I only caught bits and pieces of the debate from my laptop, as the connection was very slow, but it certainly wasn't boring. I managed to see Tim Russert repeatedly question Barack Obama regarding his endorsement by controversial minister Louis Farrakhan, and this exchange drove me mad.

The day before the debate, Obama said in a speech that he is a "consistent denunciator of Louis Farrakhan" and that he finds the minister's comments to be "unacceptable and reprehensible".

Yet Russert carried on and continued to ask what seemed like the same question, only worded differently, in hopes of forcing Obama to say something he would regret later.

Further, NBC News political director Chuck Todd criticized Obama's answers in response to Russert's questions. While liveblogging the debate, he asked, "Why didn't Obama simply say he rejected Farrakhan's support? That's an answer he's going to wish he had over."

Neither Russert nor Todd noted that Obama denounced Farrakhan's comments before and during the debate.

(BlogHer's Morra Aarons has more about this, here. )

Yesterday, another controversial pastor, John Hagee, announced his endorsement of Republican candidate John McCain and the media has barely batted an eyelash on the matter. This reeks of a "double standard", don't you think?

Thank goodness we have reliable bloggers to bring us up to speed on what's wrong with this picture.

Eric Kleefeld of Talking Points Memo writes:

Barack Obama was questioned at Tuesday night's debate by Tim Russert and Hillary Clinton about repudiating Louis Farrakhan's endorsement — which Obama said was unsolicited — in the strongest terms possible. He was repeatedly badgered by Russert, and was forced to disown Farrakhan over and over again. The very next day, John McCain appeared onstage in Texas with Pastor John Hagee, an influential activist in the Christian Zionist movement. Hagee's comments about world affairs can make Farrakhan seem pedestrian at times: He eagerly awaits the Armageddon, considers the Catholic Church to be the Anti-Christ, and has said that Jews brought their own persecution upon themselves.

From The Caucus:

Senator John McCain got support on Wednesday from an important corner of evangelical Texas when the pastor of a San Antonio mega-church, Rev. John C. Hagee, endorsed Mr. McCain for president. Mr. Hagee, who argues that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive, biblically prophesized military strike against Iran that will lead to the second coming of Christ, praised Mr. McCain for his pro-Israel views.

From Crooks and Liars:

A highly controversial San Antonio evangelical pastor has endorsed John McCain. Notice in Elisabeth Bumiller’s piece—she fails to bring up anything about Hagee’s core beliefs. I guess they are all the same to her. McCain is happy as a clam. Looks like the pastor had a bit of a problem with the IRS and Hagee’s not too fond of the Catholic church either. From his book Jerusalem Countdown:

"Adolf Hitler attended a Catholic school as a child and heard all the fiery anti-Semitic rantings from Chrysostom to Martin Luther. When Hitler became a global demonic monster, the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII never, ever slightly criticized him. Pope Pius XII, called by historians ‘Hitler’s Pope,’ joined Hitler in the infamous Concordat of Collaboration, which turned the youth of Germany over to Nazism, and the churches became the stage background for the bloodthirsty cry, ‘Pereat Judea’…. In all of his [Hitler’s] years of absolute brutality, he was never denounced or even scolded by Pope Pius XII or any Catholic leader in the world. To those Christians who believe that Jewish hearts will be warmed by the sight of the cross, please be informed—to them it’s an electric chair."

This is the kind of hate that permeates the extreme wing of the religious right.

The Catholic Knight writes:

Last December Mike Huckabee's speech at Pastor John Hagee's Cornerstone Church caused quite an uproar in Catholic circles. Hagee is known for his venomous anti-Catholic rhetoric. Many Catholics called upon Huckabee to renounce Hagee's anti-Catholicism, which he did. Still more were convinced that any association with an anti-Catholic like Hagee would tarnish a candidate too much. 'The Catholic Knight' protested by defending Huckabee, pointing out that guilt by association is unfair. Now I wonder if those same Huckabee critics will complain about John McCain in a similar way. Where is the "Catholic League" now? Where are the calls by Catholic media sources to abandon support of John McCain? Well, I'm waiting...

News from the Underground writes:

...there's been no press uproar over John McCain's accepting the endorsement of John Hagee, a highly influential crackpot cleric who has long pushed hard for war against Iran. Such a move, he openly exults, will bring on the End Times. Hagee is in tight with AIPAC (whose members quietly laugh off Hagee's apocalyptic view of Israel and history in general) and George W. Bush (who doesn't laugh off that apocalyptic view). The press is therefore duty-bound to ask McCain about it, especially considering Bomb-Bomb's former stance against such theocratic pastors as John Hagee--and also, of course, because of Bomb-Bomb's own overt desire to drop a lot of huge explosives on Teheran.

Kate Stone writes:

According to the Dallas Morning News McCain said “All I can tell you is I’m very proud to have Pastor Hagee’s support.” You bet he is “proud.” He needs the radical right arm of the GOP to support his bid for the Presidency. We won’t see McCain rejecting or denouncing this hater.

Susan G writes at The Daily Kos:

So as of yesterday we have a new slogan for the presumptive Republican presidential nominee: John McCain, the official candidate of the people who believe in governing according to Ezekiel 38-39.

From Catholics for Huckabee:

With the news that Rev. John Hagee is expected to endorse John McCain, many Catholic Huckabee supporters are breathing a huge sigh of relief, only regretful, after thousands of lost Catholic votes, that this had not happened sooner.

A large, bellicose man with a booming voice, sometimes referred to as the Rush Limbaugh of evangelicals, Hagee is not shy about promoting his noxious anti-Catholic views. Among other anti-Catholic diatribes, he is fond of claiming that the early Catholic Church invented anti-Semitism; that the medieval Catholic Church instituted the Crusades and the Inquisition to "punish the Jews"; that the Catholic Church instructed Adolph Hitler with anti-Semitism; and that the Catholic Church never opposed the Nazi Third Reich.

I'm Catholic. According to Hagee, this makes me the closest thing to the anit-Christ. Unlike Obama, John McCain hasn't denounced Hagee or deemed his comments unacceptable and reprehensible. He's proud to have the pastor's support. It makes me sick. And it's just another reason I'm thankful I didn't (and most likely will not) vote for John McCain.