BlogHer - The Eliot Spitzer - Bill Clinton Factor: Voters, do you care if your politician cheats on a spouse? - Comments

Hypocrisy is so unattractive.

Rita Arens — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:23:00 -0500

My issue is that he's a hypocrite. First off, he broke the law, so that's that. If he hadn't paid for sex, though, if he had an affair with his wife's best friend? Then I'd say it's none of my business. Except that he's Spitzer, and he's someone constantly up in everyone's grill about their conduct and ethics, and so I think he deserves every last bit he got.

Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

So, I'm naive

alyssaroyse — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:25:47 -0500

Not doubting it, I LOATHE Bush and his cronies as much as the rest and am more than happy to pin this on them as some sort of conspiracy. Believe me, I am. BUT, can you explain to be how this is their doing?

Spitzer admitted doing "it." Right.

Repeatedly did so.

Did so with ground rules of no condoms, which means he was involved in the planning, at least to some extent.

His voice is recorded arranging such things.

His bank accounts are the origination of transferred funds - presumably at his command.

SO, how do we pin this on anyone other than Spitzer himself?

Even if Bush and Cheney had offered their daughters (which would be very funny in the case of Cheney) up to Spitzer, he could have said NO. He could have NOT called and booked them repeatedly, he could have NOT paid them for sex (which is the crime, not the sex itself, but the paying for it) and, I dunno, at the very least he coulda worn a condom (which strikes me as the most stupid and arrogant move of them all here.....)

BUT, if I'm missing something, please tell me. I so want to blame this - and everything else - on the Bush, Cheney, Rove axis of evil. I just can't see how to.

___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

Unsurprising

heivilinj — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:08:33 -0500

Given the other tactics this administration has used that wouldn't be surprising in the least.

Jim Heivilin

well yes, but

alyssaroyse — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:22:39 -0500

that is one of many reasons why sex work should be legalized. SOMETIMES sex workers have not consented. But MANY times they have. We don't know in this - or many - cases, which it is. legalize and regulate it, that will help.

the problem. however, is still NOT the fact that a woman's body is being purchased, it's by whom and to whom the money is going.....

___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

wait a minute

veronicaeye — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 13:48:07 -0500

We have no idea if the women involved in the sex ring are there willingly or not. This is why I want to see sex work legalized, maybe we could have a better handle on whether the women involved are there because they want to be or because they were trafficked.

Either way...the way the system is set up, it's buying a woman's body. I doubt that Spitzer called the woman up before hand to get consent.

Two adults having sex? yes. With consent...and sometimes sex workers just don't have the freedom to consent.

The political aspects of this investigation are interesting also

Kim Pearson — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 12:18:42 -0500

Liza Sabater has an interesting take on Spitzer's political vulnerability here -- she says his failure to connect with the grassroots leaves him without a base of support in a crisis. She also points to this item from Harpers suggesting that Spitzer might have been deliberately targeted by the Bush Justice Department to keep him from consolidating Democratic power in NY state.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

commerce is a 2 way street

marywallace — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:32:39 -0500

I agree, Allyssa, with you. I am a straight divorced mom of three kids and I believe that 'sex for money' isn't the problem. I think the problem is the way we judge the transactions, as filth. My joke is that if women could easily find someone to pay for the security of a safe and hygenic sex act, more would jump at it than ever expected. But its just the men who are always in the news about this. As Johns. So, to me, Spitzer has lost any moral ground he had, by living as a hypocrite. I have no sympathy for him. He had many chances to walk his own moral talk but he didn't. And now he gets to claim the 'high road' by apologizing for betraying his wife and kids and his constituents. Meanwhile, if you read the transcripts available thru HuffingtonPost.com, you see that there are judgements against specific prostitutes for 'not being into it enough' because they leave a john earlier than the hired four hour stint, because they have to get their kid at school. OMG! A responsible mom is devalued, even in prostitution!!! I heard about this on a twitter yesterday before it hit the front page and my deepest repulsion was about the hypocrisy. Now Spitzer buries himself into his wife, whom he has betrayed, expecting her innocence to garner him sympathy, while the prostitute is dismissed as an object of illegal acts.

Mary Wallace

Eliot Spitzer's incredibly stupid behavior

marywallace — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 11:19:36 -0500

Regardless of whether or not paying for sex is something we need to look at as a culture, Spitzer had to cobble together $4,300 of his family money to get laid. He couldn't get the money together in time for his first assignation, so it got delayed a day, according to the text messages released to the public. He had reserved a hotel room but couldn't get the $4,300 together to reserve the girl. The pimp/madam texted him again and again asking for money. When, during that whole 'negotiation' did he ever think about the hypocrisy? Or the terrible gut blow he would deal to his wife when he had to tell her 'oh, honey, the feds have me on tape hiring a prostitute'? The pimp/madam interacted with him several times, 'we need the money, the $500 you have ON ACCOUNT with us isn't enough for the girl, please get us more money'. He's not fit to be in office. He's just not.

Mary Wallace

one male perspective

heivilinj — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:46:44 -0500

I agree that as far as the infidelity goes it's a matter between him and his wife.

As far as the legal matter goes I think it should be prosecuted along with all the other cases resulting from that sting operation. If he has to appear in court then so be it. It's not like he didn't know what the potential consequences of his actions were.

However he has quite ably demonstrated a lack of personal control as well as a lapse in judgment and I think those speak against his record and qualifications for public office. We have quite enough politicians who think they're above the law or they get perks of that nature. And the system can never be repaired if we don't hold people accountable for their actions.

If you're going to talk the talk be prepared to walk the walk gentlemen.

Jim Heivilin

Commerce is a 2-way street

alyssaroyse — Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:11:37 -0500

I read this comment before I went to bed last night and sort of slept on the idea of "buying women as if we are objects."

I'm not sure that really bothers me, after all, these women were asking to be purchased as objects. Or at least sell services. And that's their decision to make (laws not withstanding.)

I've said time and time again that I believe prostitution should be legal, so I just can't fault the "act" in this case. It's the fact that he built his career and reputation on eliminating "filth" in the city of NY. And then turned out to be part of what he deemed "filth."

Which gets me back to my biggest issue, that we have created a society in which his sexual needs (which were strong enough that he was willing to risk EVERYTHING for them) had to be swept into dark corners and deemed "filth." How must that feel to wake up everyday longing for something deep inside your soul that you - and everyone around you - deems filthy? That's the kind of thing that erodes people. And it makes me sad.

I have friends who are strippers and dominatrix and tantricas, and I absolutely respect their ability to sell their services to people who need and want to purchase them. What makes me sad is that most of their clients don't feel that they can tell their life-partners that they want these things.....
___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

It's not even the hypocrisy that gets me

veronicaeye — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:40:09 -0500

It's that he thinks he can buy women as it we are objects. As a man who seemed to build a heck of a lot of his career on feminist issues, I am heartbroken. He could have taken a bribe, tipped off a Wall Street investor, etc. And it is the fact that he went out and bought a woman. Married or not, I can't and won't stand for that.

He's done. Resign and slither off into the sunset, E. And don't even show your face on any of the talking head shows.

I'm a "People of New York"

Suzanne Reisman — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:31:34 -0500

As I mentioned in a late-breaking CUSS post about this, I'm pretty distressed by what he did. As the former NYS Attorney General, he made a reputation for himself by standing for reform. He ran on that promise. I voted for him with pride and excitement. This would be the man to clean up Albany, by golly!

Many missteps later, he seems to have wandered off a cliff. As my wise and funny friend wondered, "Why couldn't he just settle for a DC call girl like the other politicians? Is he too good for them?" A former colleague who works in New Jersey sent me an email asking me what was wrong with my governor. "My governor may pay for sex," I replied, "but yours is trying to buy a new Florida primary for his friend Hillary Clinton." (I'm not really sure which is worse, but that's another story anyway.)

I hate that Spitzer violated the public trust in him, or what little was left anyway. The whole thing is gross and vile. If anyone is familiar with NYS politics (and if you aren't, be very glad - ignorance is truly bliss!), you know that Spitzer just handed over a HUGE victory to the Republican Senate leader, Joe Bruno, who himself is under investigation by the FBI for corruption. Who will pay attention to boring old corruption charges when there's illicit, dangerous (literally, according to the affidavit) sex out there? The real losers of all this are New Yorkers, and quite frankly, women who truly are sex trafficked.

Speaking of which, in light of this event and the great discussion here, I would like to write about legalizing prostitution for my CE post on Thursday. If anyone else takes this topic up on their blogs, let me know so I can link to you.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

It's not the sex, it's the hypocrisy

PunditMom — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:16:44 -0500

The sex? I think people could not care less.

The hypocrisy of prosecuting others for the same illegal conduct you're engagaing in? Not so fine.

It's the power thing and the attitude of those with power who believe they are above the law that is the problem. And not knowing when the supposed champions of the law are breaking those laws behind our backs.

We need to be done with these kinds of politicians.

And the wives need to stop standing behind their husbands for the horrible photo-ops.

PunditMom
http://punditmom1.blogspot.com
BlogHer Contributing Editor, Politics & News

Also, who really wins, who really loses

Jill Miller Zimon — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:09:56 -0500

The people of NY voted him in - should they be given the chance to vote him out?

I'm not sure - but I'm just wondering. Who loses them most - how is his work compromised - what if he was the target all along? That doesn't make what he did right, but who is really the injured?

Yes - people are betrayed because of how he's presented himself, but has the work that he's done suffered, will it suffer?

If the answers are yes, then he probably should step down. But if not...and the answers may not be yes.

Other thoughts?

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

AMEN Gena!

alyssaroyse — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:26:49 -0500

"We've never had a national conversation or healing event that recognizes we all have different sexual levels and needs, and yes this includes politicians."

THAT is the conversation that we need to have - for the health, safety and happiness of everyone.

I think, sometimes, that people think the sexual revolution mission was accomplished when gay people were told they could - conditionally - come out of the closet (as long as they still seemed mostly straight or were very artistic.) NO, we have a long ways to go.

That's why these things infuriate me. Sure, they're salacious, but they don't address the underlying issues that cause people to lie, suffer, act out, cheat etc.....

___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE
make some good news!
www.JustCauseIt.com

The Eliot Spitzer - Bill Clinton Factor: Voters, do you care if your politician cheats on a spouse?

Lisa Stone — Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:34:31 -0500

Meet Client 9, also known as New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer. According to The New York Times, Gov. Spitzer was "identified as Client 9 on a telephone call confirming plans to have a woman travel from New York to Washington, where he had reserved a hotel room. The person briefed on the case identified Mr. Spitzer as Client 9." (More here)

I'll give Gov. Spitzer the first word on the matter. According to the NYT:

"Mr. Spitzer today made a brief public appearance during which he apologized for his behavior, and described it as a “private matter.

“I have acted in a way that violates my obligation to my family and violates my or any sense of right or wrong,” said Mr. Spitzer, who appeared with his wife Silda at his Manhattan office. “I apologize first and most importantly to my family. I apologize to the public to whom I promised better.”

“I have disappointed and failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself. I must now dedicate some time to regain the trust of my family.”

My jaw is on the floor -- a man who gained public office by prosecuting prostitution rings among other crimes has now been revealed as a john? And being caught in the act via federal wiretap is the reason he has his public tearful moment, wifey in hand, and calls himself on the carpet for breaking federal and state law, not to mention his own marriage vows? (Although, hey, maybe they had an 'arrangement'? She sure doesn't look like was a mutual agreement. I want to give her a hug.)

Bottomline: I'm sick and tired of men who gain public office via their big brains and then let their little brains go party. I'm not a New York voter, but if Mr. Spitzer can rationalize breaking the law in order to step out on the woman he supposedly holds most dear, can he rationalize doing anything to and with any of the rest of us?

Tell me:
- Do you think a public official's private life should be public knowledge? Do ethics in personal life affect ethics on the job?
- Do you care if a public official cheats on a spouse?
- Do you care more/less if an official breaks the law as Gov. Spitzer apparently did?
- Hey, Lisa, lighten up - Spitzer's the victim of a partisan attack and everybody does it
- Hey, Lisa, you're right - Spitzer should resign. Here's another hug for Silda.