BlogHer - You Can CAll Me A Manly Woman. Just Don't Call Me A Bitch - Comments

You got it!

Elana Centor — Sat, 01 Apr 2006 21:29:45 -0600

elana
Blogher Contributing Editor,Business&CareersFunnyBusiness

words.

obdr — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:42:19 -0600

Strong. Decisive. Assertive. Efficient. Determined. I prefer all of those to "Manly Woman". I'd rather remove the reference to gender entirely - but maybe not.

"Bitch" or "Bastard". Doesn't matter. When you're a leader and make decisions, not everybody's going to be happy.

I work in a female-dominated profession in a male-dominated industry. It's an interesting mix. And I've seen all different management types. I have NEVER seen the females in my organization behave in the manner described from Women Bosses from Hell. And I have never heard the word "Bitch" used to imply that a female executive doesn't meet the standards set by her male peers.

But I have used "bitch" and "bastard" to describe the aggressive behaviour I've seen in meetings lately. In the male-dominated industry I'm in, the bigger and more important the meeting, the more aggressive it is. And the more assertive, a.k.a. "bitchy" I have to be to get what I want. It's not the way I like to do business. But it helped me a lot to think of it as "ritualized" aggression. Like a football game. To get my job done, I bring out my inner-"bitch" when I need to hold the "bastards" down. (Okay, that sounds like more fun than it actually is.)

Bah. It would be great if we all just worked together to get something done, eh?

Thanks for a great discussion.

ps. I just can't resist... I prefer to use "dick" as the equivalent to "chick" (which I just hate....) Think dick-flicks, dick-lit... etc.

Interesting!

Liz Rizzo — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:41:53 -0600

Ah, I see what you are saying! It's almost like a transitional word use, an answer, a suggestion.

"She's such a bitch!"

"Really? I thought she was being quite manly myself."

I'm going to be on alert for an opportunity to try this...

I absolutely agree with you...but

Elana Centor — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:59:05 -0600

Don't you hate those buts? In a perfect world, being who we are should be more than enough. But I'm reeling from what Mansfield said about men detesting working for women and the fact that qualities that are valued in men are seen as "bitchy" in women. My anecdotal experience confirms his charges.
So my thought is the "manly woman" phrase is more for the benefit of the male audience( and a bit humorous I hope)..to men help them begin perceiving strong, confident women simply acting as any leader would act. Since men do not ( that is a gross generalization I realize) quite get that women who have leadership qualities are not all bitches,the term would hopefully help men connect this behavior in a favorable light I would hope the term could be retired ...fast. But I am more interested in retiring the term bitch. elana
Blogher Contributing Editor,Business&CareersFunnyBusiness

"Bitch"

Liz Rizzo — Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:47:00 -0600

I hear what you're saying about using the word "bitch" and gender-specific words like it

So I wonder, isn't using "manly woman" (besides being a mouthful) assigning value to qualities by saying that they are masculine and just as questionable? Like, this woman is valuable because she's being like a man? Why can't we just be who we are, whatever that is? Wouldn't we be better served by words that aren't gender specific at all?

For example, I often hear, in a complementary way, the phrase, she's tough or he's tough.

I'm not striving to be manly. I'm striving to be dedicated, clear, forceful, powerful, calm, intelligent, bright, personable, respected... and I don't think any of that has anything to do with being "manly."

Plus, "manly" makes me think of Laura Ingalls crushing on Almanzo Wilder. :)

Exactly!

Yvette Perry — Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:18:27 -0600

HOW we talk about that style

That is exactly the issue. Why is "leadership" behavior in men and women often described so differently? Why is inappropriate behavior often described differently?

BTW, I do not think "dick" is equivalent to the b-word...I don't know what would be, but it ust doesn't seem the same. (Afterall, there are men actually named "Dick" but I know of no women named "Bitch"...)

I may not have made my point clearly

Elana Centor — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 14:48:28 -0600

While I think there's a lot to say about management style and how it differs generationally, what I am concerned with ( at least today in this post) is HOW we talk about that style. Whether or not we like the behavioris irrelevant to me when it comes to name calling.

I just think as women, we have to look at the role we play when we spew vitriolic terms about other women. I think it is detremental to all women to refer to a boss or a coworker as a "BITCH" because it is a gender charged and just by saying it you are implying that she doesn't meet the standards of male workers.

This post is really about language and the power a word has. There are plenty of minorities that have succeeded in having it unacceptable to call them by previously acceptable slang.In fact, there isn't a minority that hasn't had one time been subjected to name calling.

I'm just saying I believe its time we stopped saying and allowing others to call us "A Bitch." It does nothing for our careers.
I want to level the playing field and I believe that many of the qualities that people dislike in a woman boss are revered in men...hence A Manly Woman.

It does not mean that I think every woman does a great job..if she isn't doing a good job then say she's a lousy bosss but don't say she's a bitch.

elana
Blogher Contributing Editor,Business&CareersFunnyBusiness

Women in the workplace

Liz Rizzo — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:36:02 -0600

Hi,

I'm 34, and something I've observed that I find really interesting is the marked difference between female peers in my age range in the work place and the women a generation or two above us. Sometimes I think it may be a result of what it took to break in for them and the types of women that managed it, whereas I and my age-range peers have simply advanced the same as men, for the most part. With the exception of the entertainment industry, my gender has basically never been a work issue.

I definitely think double standards exist, but I also observe that the older women around me don't navigate as well as my age-range peers and they often rely on passive-aggressive communication methods and insecure perceptions. Hm, it's hard to express what I'm talking about here, and, of course, this is based on my personal experiences.

Has anyone else observed this?

You Can CAll Me A Manly Woman. Just Don't Call Me A Bitch

Elana Centor — Mon, 27 Mar 2006 10:06:30 -0600

Just a few days after Harvey Mansfield announced during an interview with Naomi Wolf that men distain working for women, The NY Daily News published a preview of the book, The Girls Guide to Being a Boss (without being a bitch). It will be available in early April.

Leigh Ann Ambrosi, the director of marketing and publicity at Sterling Publishing, said that at the beginning of her tenure she was a lot friendlier. "Now I am a quote-unquote bitch. I set more structured rules. I set meetings and deadlines that I didn't set at the beginning. I couldn't take charge being wishy-washy and being everyone's friend."

Further complicating the problem is the unrealistic level of emotional expectation that doesn't come into play as much with a male boss.

"A lot of the women we interviewed for the book," says Friedman, "thought if their female boss wasn't being 'nice' she must be being a 'bitch.' There is a lot of emotional language that surrounds this issue."

As women wonder why we have not succeeded in breaking through the glass ceiling,
could one of the key reasons be our acceptance of how we allow ourselves to be described in the workforce?

Could it be that the use of this emotionally imbued, gender specific word to describe women with authority is having the greatest impact on women's ability to succeed?
Could simply changing our corporate patois...simply eliminating the use of the word bitch from the workplace help to shift mindset?

While there is plenty written about the subject "Are Women Bosses,bitches?",There is very little written with the title " Is your boss a Dick?"--which in my mind is the male equivalent to bitch.

The question then becomes, What is the appropriate word to use instead of bitch? That would be,(thank you) Harvey Mansfield, " A Manly Woman."

By substituting bitch with , " A Manly Woman." we are imbuimg our behavior that is now described as "bitchy", with the positive characteristics that men have for Manly Men.
Over time, when a woman in power is described as , " A Manly Woman." instead of overlaying the negative connotations that bitch implies, the connotations will be positive.

There is plenty being said and written to reinforce the image that women can't manage as well as men and when they do they revert to bitchiness ">In The Guardian's blog, Esther Ranzen writes

And too often it's the women who are doing the bullying. In my experience, a lot of the men have learned to treat people better than their predecessors did. The male tyrants who once barked out orders liberally spattered with the f-word left the television companies, presumably to take charge of restaurant kitchens or become tabloid newspaper editors. They were replaced with kindly, collaborative "new men" who displayed pictures of their babies on their office walls. But, at the same time, many "new women" seemed to move in the opposite direction. Whether it was to compensate for a perceived feminine weakness, or because they were modelling themselves on the worst of the men, or just because there resides in many women the capacity to turn into the Wicked Witch of the West, too many have adopted the hectoring style of The Weakest Link.

Almost eight years ago, in the days prior to blogs, Kathleen J. Wu wrote about women managers for the Andrew Kurth website.
The title of her article " Are women really bitchy bosses?"

But the complaints I hear most often about women bosses have less to do with being too nice than being too demanding. Actually, demanding isn't the word most people use. It's "pushy," "bossy," or, worse, "bitchy."

From where I sit, the person to blame for this perception is more likely to be the employee than the supervisor. I'm sure there are women bosses who throw their weight around for the wrong reasons, just as many male managers do the same thing. And truly outlandish behavior is usually seen as such whether the supervisor is male or female.

Where women managers are treated unfairly is when they are neither cream puffs nor tyrants, but somewhere in between. Nobody holds it against a man, for instance, when he's curt and doesn't spend much time asking how his associate's weekend was or inquiring about her family. In fact, his "businesslike" demeanor is likely to be respected and may be a reason for his success. But a woman who keeps her professional distance from those who work for her is likely to be labeled a "bitch."

And then there was this press release Women Bosses From Hell? from the Behavior Sciences Research Press who survey 150 managers in Fortune 500 companies

Fifty-four percent of the managers surveyed said it didn't matter to them whether they worked for a man or a woman. But those who expressed a preference had an unexpected opinion. Seven in ten said they would rather work for a man than a woman. Why? Their reasons varied, but their comments on women managers had a common thread: "Backstabbing," "Gossip-focused." "Not as supportive as men." "Crisis creator."

According to Donia, "There may be more bitching than bonding going on among aspiring career women."

The irony,of course, is that there is plenty of research indicating women make fabulous bosses. In an article published in Human Resource Executive Magazine the research puts women bosses in a positive light.

In what they say is a first-of-its kind study, three academics reviewed 45 published and unpublished studies conducted between 1985 and 2002, all of which examined whether men and women manage differently.

Based on this analysis, they concluded women bosses are more likely to be "transformational" leaders - defined as bosses who mentor, inspire and foster innovation and teamwork. In contrast, male bosses were more likely to be categorized as having a "transactional" style - defined as appealing to subordinates' self-interest and using reward and punishment as incentives.

Men also dominated another style of managing, which they called the "laissez-faire" style - i.e. managing by not managing - the researchers said.

And,from an An Australian Study,

Women bosses are more caring and sharing - it's official. But only if there's no queen bee.

New research shows women at the top make a difference if workplaces have enough of them.

The queen bee, or token female boss, can make little impact on workplace culture, because they are more likely to act like a man, pull up the web of opportunity so other women cannot climb it, and make male colleagues feel uptight.

But put a critical mass of women into senior roles, and men start to relax and management culture starts to change for the better. There is less shouting and table-thumping in the executive suite, more nurturing, and team-building.

So, if you happen to hear someone calling another woman at work "a bitch," today. Just smile, and suggest instead, that they call her , " A Manly Woman."

In the immortal words of lyricist by Johnny Mercer

You've got to accentuate the positive
Eliminate the negative
Latch on to the affirmative
Don't mess with Mister In-Between