BlogHer - How Do You Feel About Diet Foods?: Some Feminist Navel-Gazing - Comments

Women of all sizes

mashadutoit — Wed, 21 May 2008 11:50:42 -0500

If I can pitch in here so late - I liked the quote from Marshfield - Commercial media encourage body dissatisfaction in woman of all sizes; it's not just fat women they pitch to.

That is kind of close to my heart. I'm rather skinny. My doctor has the horries when she sees how much I weigh, and I tend to get a bit scelletal when I'm stressed. For the record - no, I dont have an eating disorder.

And while you may think - so what's yor problem? I often dont feel very much like a woman. A woman is CURVY after all! What's sexy about looking like a outgrown grashopper? Main stream media certainly dont make me feel happy about myself either.

I guess that as long as you can sell stuff by making people unhappy about how they are, whether that is too round or too flat, that is how things will be.

Rarely "do" diet foods

debra roby — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 22:43:27 -0500

I rarely do diet foods; occasionally using a packet of equal in some iced tea, but that 's maybe once a week. And I only drink any kind of soda about 4 times/year; then it's always a classic coke. (this is NOT something new.. I've never done these things for years.)

However, I DO love rich, sweet, and fatty foods. I just don't eat them every day. Once in a while they will do me no significant harm, so when I indulge, I enjoy.

I really prefer to eat simple real food (stuff that looks similar to what it did when it was grown or raised). Fruits, veggies, whole grains, simple roasted or broiled meats or fish. (I can't do cow's milk at all).

It's odd how difficult simple is when eating out with friends (notice how many dishes in a restaurant are coated and fried or have cheese added to them.) But I'm trying to learn how to do this too.

Debra
A Stitch In Time
Deb's Daily Distractions

Try agave nectar

Kalyn Denny — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:11:51 -0500

Something that's natural and low-glycemic that you might like in tea is Agave nectar. I wrote about it for BlogHer, it's really quite delicious.

This summer when I'm not teaching school (and not quite so dependent on coffee!) I thought I'd see if I could learn to like Agave in my coffee. But I'm sure I won't quit Diet coke.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen

Me Too!

Diana — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 19:20:09 -0500

I have had the same experience with cutting Diet Coke. I am totally addicted to the stuff and in the past when I have succeed at cutting it out I've slept better, felt better overall, been able to concentrate better, etc. Of course, obviously this all means nothing because no matter what happens I always end up failing, losing the battle and going back to it. I would love to get Diet Coke free, again.

Hard to know what's healthy

adfeminem — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:14:12 -0500

I know - the Rumsfeld thing is pretty creepy.

I forgot to say that I think Kazari's theory about the body's value for what it can do vs. how it looks is a totally solid one. The happy corollary to that is that the more versatile/useful/stronger body is usually the one that ends up looking better anyway.

I also forgot this caveat. I said that dieting is not anti-feminist if it's done out of a "real concern for health." Unfortunately, that's quite difficult to define, and with the way the cosmetic industries have co-opted the language of health, it's even more confusing. On my blog, I've written extensively about this hijacking of language. Essentially, the rhetoric of the beauty industry substitutes "health" for the unattainable idea of "beauty," thus equating the "ugly" or "fat" with the sick. If unattractiveness can be cured through "aesthetic medicine," then those deemed unattractive join the ranks of the diseased waiting for cures.

No to all of it

Average Jane — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:39:47 -0500

I used to drink a lot of Diet Coke and I started noticing that by the end of the day, I would have trouble focusing my thoughts and sometimes my speech was a bit slurred. That was enough to make me swear off artificial sweeteners forever.

I'm in favor of moderation vs. eating fat substitutes, fake sugar, etc. That's not to say that I don't enjoy the occasional dessert or soft drink, but I do my best to keep that kind of thing to a bare minimum.

Frequent insomnia

Suzanne Reisman — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:33:58 -0500

I suffer somewhat frequently from insomnia, so that is a really interesting point that you and a few others raise about artificial sweeteners and sleeping. Maybe I'll cut it for a week and see how it goes.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

The Rumsfeld Connection

Suzanne Reisman — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:32:15 -0500

Didn't know that. I swear when I read what you wrote, a chill went down my spine. Anything associated with Donald Rumsfeld automatically picks up a patina of evil. He could discover a cure for cancer and I'd probably shun it. :) (This is probably not a good time to admit that I went to the same high school as he did, where he is an honored alum...)

I also agree that eating everything in moderation is the way to go. That is what I strive to do - supplemented with a nice cold glass of diet whatever - although sometimes it is hard not to overeat if I'm presented with something super yummy. But you are right - complete denial of anything is not good.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

Glycemic index

Suzanne Reisman — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:27:24 -0500

Ah, yes. The glycemic index. I am at risk for diabetes, as I am slightly insulin resistant now (family history plus PCOS = not good), so I met with a nutritionist last year. She explained the whole glycemic index and how to balance a meal between carbs, fats, and proteins to trick my body into ignoring some of the carbs. It's fascinating stuff. My friend in London recently went on a detox diet and gave up sugar and caffeine, and she says it has changed her life.

Anyway, I wasn't sure if you meant white sugar only or other types of unrefined sugar as well, but all sugar impacts the glycemic index, so I think that answers my question. It's too early for a Diet Coke, so I raise my mug of Equal-sweetened tea to you for now. Thanks!

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

GAve Up The Diet Coke -- I Miss It But Not Enough To Drink It

Elana Centor — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:52:57 -0500

On an airplane trip from Seattle to Minneapolis the passenger sitting next to me suggested that my chronic insomnia was not so much age related by aspartame related. Now I love me my diet coke. And I could easily drink 2-3 cans a day.

But I decided to try it. That was about 2 years ago. I am sleeping better and the cravings for the diet coke are not that frequent--

I had hoped by cutting down on the diet Coke that my weight would go down--the whole glycemic index thing that I buy into.

so far--that's a battle yet to be won.

elana
Blogher Contributing Editor,Business&CareersFunnyBusiness

No to aspartame

adfeminem — Fri, 18 Apr 2008 01:12:19 -0500

I'm one of those who believe that aspartame is definitely not worth making compromises for. I used to drink about 4 Diet Cokes per day, and once I cut them out completely, so many things improved: my sleeping patterns (from less caffeine), my short-term memory, my mental clarity.

While I'd agree that an excess of white sugar is definitely also not great, given the choice between natural sugar and aspartame, sugar must win out. If it's calories you're worried about in your iced tea, the calories in a teaspoon of sugar are pretty negligible (about 10-15).

Also,and I don't know if these are the ones you're saying may no longer be valid, but there have been studies showing drinking diet sodas actually causes us to gain weight, not lose it.

The best lesson I've learned in recent years has come from my fiance, who's British, grew up in France and is a total food connoisseur, and that lesson "to eat like a French woman" - eating quality food in moderation. And he's right; when I eat high quality food, even if it's high in calorie, I'm satisfied with much smaller portions than I would be if I ate the "low-fat/low-carb/chemically altered/low-taste" version. Like you, I could live solely on cheese and chocolate (in that order), and when I don't consistently deny them to myself, and thus constantly think about not eating them thus constantly thinking about them, I don't end up bingeing on them.

Finally, I agree with everyone that the "anti-feminist" element of dieting comes from its motivation - whether it stems from a socially induced sense of inadequacy, the constant pursuit of an unattainable and culturally defined "ideal" or a real desire to be physically healthy. Unfortunately, so many of us get to the point that we have to diet only because we've felt or been made to feel in the first place and eaten to console, stuff down or mute those feelings. (Myself included.) It's a familiar, vicious cycle.

Finally, a "fun" fact (and, I would say, a good enough reason to avoid aspartame): Did you know that Donald Rumsfeld was the CEO of Searle Laboratories, the makers of aspartame, when it was originally approved by the FDA? From an article on News With Views:

"Since its discovery in 1965, controversy has raged
over the health risks associated with the sugar substitute. From laboratory
testing of the chemical on rats, researchers have discovered that the
drug induces brain tumors. On Sept 30, 1980 the Board of Inquiry of the
FDA concurred and denied the petition for approval.

In 1981, the newly appointed FDA Commissioner, Arthur
Hull Hayes, ignored the negative ruling and approved aspartame for dry
goods. As recorded in the Congressional Record of 1985, then CEO of Searle
Laboratories Donald Rumsfeld said that he would "call in his markers"
to get aspartame approved. Rumsfeld was on President Reagan's transition
team and a day after taking office had appointed Hayes. No FDA Commissioner
in the previous sixteen years had allowed aspartame on the market."

(Rumsfeld's role in aspartame approval is also addressed in Naomi Klein's excellently researched book The Shock Doctrine.)

I know that was a long-winded response. Thanks for listening.

People are not products.

www.adfeminem.org

P.S.

Kalyn Denny — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:52:48 -0500

It's rather ironic that I'm going on this anti-sugar tirade right after writing a post about Flourless Desserts for Passover isn't it? I do think that for those kinds of special events, observing the tradition and enjoying your family is much more important than dieting.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen

Diet Coke (yes!) and the glycemic index

Kalyn Denny — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:49:02 -0500

Definitely on for the Diet Coke toast! (I do try to keep it down to a couple a day.)

Maybe this summer when I have more time I'll do a BlogHer post about the glycemic index. For now, the short version is that eating sugar (or other foods which quickly turn to sugar when digested) causes the body to produce extra insulin which causes food cravings, energy highs and lows, mood swings, and leads to all kinds of future health problems.

I'm a fan of the South Beach Diet, (which is not a low carb diet like most people think, but is actually based on the Glycemic index.) Here are some links about the Glycemic Index:

Glycemic Index (main site)

What is the Glycemic Index (World's Healthiest Foods)

When you stop eating sugar for a while, you really experience how addictive and harmful it is when you do succumb to temptation and eat some. I really try to avoid it, and when I'm avoiding it completely, I absolutely feel better and have more constant energy all day long.

Kalyn Denny
Kalyn's Kitchen

Write away!

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:12:37 -0500

It's a topic that easily lends itself to novel writing. Martha and Arthur (excellent choice of literary names!) sound like a very good trade off for what you spend your time and money on. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this loaded issue.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

White sugar?

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:07:13 -0500

Kalyn, thank you so much for your comment. I hope to read a whole post on the topic from you! In the meantime, I am curious why white sugar is so awful to eat. (From an economics/labor perspective, I definitely get how evil the sugar industry is in general. Fascinating how any addictive substance - legal or not - generates so many human rights issues.)

And now that I know that you also love Diet Coke, I think we should have a Diet Coke toast at BlogHer this summer!

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS)& Other Rants

How Do You Feel About Diet Foods?: Some Feminist Navel-Gazing

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:11:27 -0500

"Studies show that consumption of aspartame is linked to short-term memory loss," my friend told me one afternoon as I sipped a cup of tea. Since I like my tea sweet (and milky), but I don't want the calories from sugar, I usually put a packet or two of Equal in my hot beverages. Steph loves sweet tea, too, but hates artificial sweeteners. This does not stop her from putting 10 teaspoons of sugar in her glasses. Unlike me, she doesn't care if the real deal causes her to weigh a pound or two more in the long run.

As I swallowed my tasty drink, it seemed sort of sweeter than usual. I looked for the shredded packets to figure out how much I used, but the waiter at the cafe had cleaned them up. "Hmmm... do you remember exactly how many things of Equal I dumped in this?" I asked Steph. "I'm not trying to prove your point, but seriously, I can't remember and this tea is awfully sweet." She smirked at me.

New York Presbyterian Hospitalsites a 2006 study indicating that 83% of college women are on a diet, regardless of their weight. In the 1990s, some 50% of American women were on a diet at any given time. In 2005, Ellen Goodstein wrote at Bankrate that the diet industry generated $40 billion in revenue. Logic would indicate that a good portion of this profit came out of the pockets of women desperate to be "thin." Yet in 2007, John Hopkins School of Public Health reported that, "Women 20–34 years old had the fastest increase rate of obesity and overweight."

Just to throw another confusing stat into the mix, a study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association built on previous studies indicating that people who are slightly over their "healthy" weight are actually healthier than those who weigh less. Let's not forget that a "healthy" weight usually is more than the "ideal" weight many women strive for. All this is to say that an actual healthy weight is probably a few pounds heavier than the current "healthy" rate, which is then many pounds more than "ideal" weight. Clearly, being thin is killing us.

And now, back to me. Like many women, I enjoy eating. I adore cheese and chocolate. Once, during a painfully boring and looong conference call at work in which I put together an alphabetical list of foods that I enjoy, I even determined that if I were forced to eat food that only began with one letter, "C" is by far the best choice. ("S," by the way, is the second best option.) I could possibly live on cheese and chocolate if I weren't so worried about gaining weight. (In that case, perhaps my obsession with my weight is for the best, as a diet consisting entirely of cheese and chocolate lacks many important vitamins, minerals, and other things necessary for good health.)

Still, at the end of the day, I pass up things I would like to eat, and ingest disturbing chemicals in a misguided effort to keep myself 5 to 10 pounds lighter. Sometimes I think about whether all the calorie-saving foods might actually lead me to die earlier. Is it worth it? I mean, once I die, I'll have plenty of time to be really thin. Maybe I should think more like Steph and just enjoy life while I can, jeans size be damned.

Even though this post is extremely self-centered, I'm not the only feminist caught in this conundrum, of course. The Happy Feminist wrote:

I have worried quite a bit over the last few years about my copious Diet Coke intake. Completely abandoning moderation with regard to an artificial drink can't possibly be a good thing. And, indeed, it's probably not. I think it's having an effect on my teeth, and I have a feeling I may not have any teeth in a few years if I keep this up.

And I have also had visions of myself dying of cancer in 15 years. Or visions of the first Diet Coke lawsuits and people saying, "Well, everyone always knew or should have known that that stuff is terrible for you." But my cancer nightmares appear to be unfounded according to a new federal study... I may be toothless in a few years but at least I'll be above ground!

Given that I've been heard calling Diet Coke "the elixir of life," The Happy Feminist and I might as well be separated at birth.

An excellent conversation about feminism and dieting sprang up at Big Fat Blog. Jenny from Rants, ramblings, and random thoughts commented:

I've asked this question of myself before, and my answer is: No, it's not anti-feminist to "diet," but it is anti-feminist to hate your body. Unfortunately, that's what most dieting is. If I want to go vegetarian because of concern for the environment, worker exploitation, etc., and "happen to" lose some of my natural mass, then so be it. If I decide to stop eating out of the vending machine because I've finally decided that the stuff in there tastes like cardboard, fine. But if I count every calorie/protein/carb/fat gram/bad guy du jour because I hate the way I look and I think that, by having less of me, I'll suddenly love the way I look, that's anti-feminist. Hell, it's anti-humanist.

Marshfield, however, noted:

I love my body. It's sturdy, healthy, and generally nicely-proportioned. I have shiny graying hair and a pleasant face. I've reached advanced boomerhood with few complaints. That doesn't mean I would preclude modifying the way I look by healthy means (weight training is one I've considered). Commercial media encourage body dissatisfaction in woman of all sizes; it's not just fat women they pitch to. You can pay attention or not. Anyway, self-improvement is a popular human pastime. It's not always pathological.

So to conclude my (slightly pudgy) navel-gazing, I guess that - like most women - I have very mixed feelings about my desire for delicious, sweet, fatty foods, my interest in being healthy, and my obsession with my appearance. My usage of Equal perfectly encapsulates a dilemma that so many of us face in our lives. Do you compromise your principals to keep a few pounds off, and if so, how does it make you feel?

Suzanne also blogs about life at Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants, about yogurt at Live Active Cultures, and social issues at Just Cause.