BlogHer - Miley Cyrus headed down a slippery (half-naked) slope? - Comments

two more cents

washwords — Sun, 04 May 2008 15:56:01 -0500

Not much to say that hasn't been covered already, very eloquently my Mir's original posting and all you talented women speaking your minds... but... I have to agree with Denise and co. here (and give you credit Denise for being the first to raise a different voice)...

I'm 35 (only saying, in case my generation is why I have a different take) and I have to say my first reaction was one of bafflement to this whole "scandal."

Jamie Lynn Spears just got a RAISE for being a PREGNANT teenager celebrity. And has anyone been to facebook/ my space/ any bar mitzvah lately. I have and the way parents seem to ENCOURAGE the wildly inappropriate clothing. In suburban DC at least there's a term - prostitots- and it wasn't invented by adults, it was coined by fellow young men and women, who see their peers this way and cast this judgement.

To me, it's the lingerie stores for children, the going "prom-night-shopping" with your teenage daughter (I've seen it, more than once, and it's not dress shopping, it's victoria's secret) that's a danger to our society, NOT this beautiful photograph by one of America's most beloved and talented photographers.

I have to disagree that 15 is "a child, a child!!!" It's not. 15-year-olds are enrolling in the army in Israel, preparing to leave their homes and begin their young adult lives right here in the U.S. of A., and yes, discovering their sexuality.

When Brooke Shields did her photos/ads/Blue Lagoon, she was the "cool, older teenager" - I thought she was beautiful and yes, sexy, but it didn't make me see my own coming into womanhood any differently. I also remember wearing a bikini myself in public for the first time about that age and realizing I was attractive, or posing for myself in a sheet in the mirror, or after meeting a boy to see how I might look different.

I WISH I had an annie leibowitz to capture those moments. It'd be nice to remember now that cellulite and gray hairs are starting to appear....

jfa/ washy

http://washwords.wordpress.com

washwords.dc@gmail.com

Miley's Misstep?

PrincessP — Fri, 02 May 2008 08:54:37 -0500

I agree (and disagree) with many here. Most of all, I find fault with the parents and Annie L in this situation. Plain and simple, Miley is still a child. I don't care if she is in the public eye. She is a minor, and the moment a photographer asked her to TAKE HER TOP OFF for a photograph should have been the moment that her parents said NO WAY. Forgive me for shouting while typing, but give me a break. A child is a child, and they have exploited this one.

No matter how tasteful they 'might' (and I question that 'might') have thought they were being, there should have been no question in Billy Ray's mind when they asked his daughter to start removing articles of clothing. Period. Done. End of story. End of photo shoot. Serious flaw in parental judgment.

http://www.whitetrashmom.com/

http://family.go.com/blog/princess_peg/

My kids watch Hannah

Liz Thompson — Thu, 01 May 2008 09:20:10 -0500

My kids watch Hannah Montana. So? How did we handle Mileygate at our house?

14-year-old: "Well, that was totally STUPID!"

12-year-old: "Like, Mom would have NEVER let us do that!"

Me: "Yeah."

6-year-old: "What?"

Me: "Nevermind."

Kids are going to screw-up, regardless of who's watching, but at least my kids don't know from greedy and The Boy (he's 9) doesn't watch, so...PHEW!

Nice write-up, Mir.

--------------------------------------------

This Full House

This Full House Reviews

Imperfect Parent

Art and Money

One Bite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:18:30 -0500

As an artitistic shot I think it's a beautiful photograph. As a commercial thing, I think it's gross and takes advantage of an under aged girl. I can see Leibowitz wanting to take this photo. However, the magazine was remiss in using it to shill their product.

Tough Call

mecca2425 — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:05:29 -0500

I'm having a hard time with this one. On one hand I can't imagine wanting my daughter to pose for such a shot. On the other hand, I'm hesitant to judge others' parenting and really do feel for Miley and her family over what was likely a beautiful photo shoot.

Cecelia, Cool Baby Kid

Miley Cyrus

merlotmom — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:36:35 -0500

Thank you Mir for such a thorough article though I disagree with you.

Thank you Denise, Ashley, Rachelle, et al, for coming out on this one. I have done so on my blog for the past two days but I've felt in the minority (still am, but now I know I have some support!)

I have said all I have to say in those posts but I will reiterate she is NOT topless! This is a media ploy to garner audience and ratings. She is NOT in a bed as one of your commenters said. She's outside on a photo stage. I agree with Denise that Miley has worked professionally long enough that you cannot equate her with a typical suburban 15 year old. I think she and her family have done an incredible job of maintaining "normalcy". I wish she would have chosen a different picture (I like some of the others better) but that's my opinion. I think it wasn't the best choice because the media vultures are always circling but I think it's been blown out of proportion. Her tv show is good, clean fun with heart (unlike many other kids shows). I think parents letting the media tell them what's right and wrong.

merlotmom

www.merlotmom.com

Other celebs

lilmommythatcould — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:04:46 -0500

As for other celeberties who like Miley had questionable photos, the track record is not good. Brooke Shields has had a rocky relationship with her mother, and I don't have to say much about Britney or Lohan. Maybe when more young teen stars come out on top even with questionable photos I will be willing to let it slide more.

In theory... I agree BUT,

JenInShanghai — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:39:31 -0500

These pictures don't appear to me to be provocative. She is a 15 year old whose parents were at the photo shoot watching. Annie is not a creepy lurker hanging around a playground trying to coerce young girls into pornographic shots.

In general YES, I think kids are growing up too fast these days, but insinuating that Miley is on a "slippery slope" to who knows where because of this, is blowing this specific situation out of proportion.

Vanity Fair should be the target of criticism here, not Miley.

Yes, She's A Minor

Megan Smith — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:26:52 -0500

But she's a minor with her parents' permission.

And I guess the bottom line is, I don't have a problem with the pictures or the poses. I'm more appalled at what I see some fifteen year olds wear at the beach these days, without their parents' permission, than I am with these photos.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

Dissenting Opinion

Rachelle Mee-Chapman — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:58:14 -0500

Denise,

I am totally on board with you 100%.

I have teenagers in my life, including a tween daughter, and I would be fine with letting them take a photo like this if they were developmentally and emotionally interested in doing so. It's a pose from classical art, and captures that twlight age between being a kid and moving towards a being a grown up. Which was probably part of Annie's point.

I wrote about it a lot already on the Contributing Editors mail list, and am burned out on the topic now. But I wanted to drop this quick line to say you are not alone.

Rachelle Mee-Chapman http://www.magpie-girl.com

Okay, forget the role model part

Mir Kamin — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:32:27 -0500

Again, Cyrus wasn't (and won't be) a role model for my kids; for me, that's not the issue. I take issue with any underage child appearing in a provocative, scantily-clad, sexually-tinged pose on the cover of a major magazine. Better? ;)

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda

Having it all with less: Want Not

Re: Radcliffe

Mir Kamin — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:30:06 -0500

I agree completely that Radcliffe's decision was a brilliant career move. But I also think bringing him up is comparing apples to oranges -- he was a legal adult when he made that decision. My problem here is that Cyrus is a minor. Totally different circumstances.

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda

Having it all with less: Want Not

Double Standards

Lovebabz — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:50:31 -0500

So Fred the Porn Man who shoots children in provacative photos everyday in his basement isn't an artist? I am not buying this in regards to Annie Liebowitz doesn't get a pass because she is a famous photgrapher! She fucked up and exploited a kid for her own artistic expression and MONEY! Vanity Fair knew this would be controversial to sell magazines...please!

Are you kidding me, why hold the entertainment industry to a different standard? Putting a child naked under sheets ain't art--if she was of age that's different. She should not have to stand there and aoplogize. The Grown-ups around her ought to be doing so.

Why are we so willing to see children in these sexually suggestive photos as if it's some rite of passage. Do we like this or do we say, "she not My kid" This is not about being role models, or turning off the TV. It is about You and I as parents, aunts, cousins, sister-friends saying ENOUGH already. She is my kid, she is your kid, they are all our kids and we have to do a better job of protecting, guiding and nurturing. Today it's Miley at 15, tomorrow will it be some other nubile 12 year old? Or is there a line somehwere and we haven't reached it?

Love, Babz

Of course I shouldn't be,

kperfetto — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 20:37:08 -0500

Of course I shouldn't be, but I'm pretty shocked by the reaction the "topless" photo has generated. I love Annie Leibovitz's work, and find nothing wrong with it, and if Miley Cyrus hadn't admitted to being ashamed or embarrassed by the shoot, would there be any "controversy." (Answer? Probably, yes.) Granted, I'm not a parent, and I am a photographer. So maybe I've trained myself to look at things a little differently.

Available Light & Five Dollar Radio

Identifying Role models

JenInShanghai — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:53:13 -0500

I agree with Denise, Megan, Ashley..... She is a actress and in her chosen (I hope she chose it) profession working with Annie Lebowitz at a photo shoot had to be an amazing opportunity. Her parents could have done a better job of preparing her for the backlash. It is not like Annie was taking her picture for "Teen Beat" (yes I still have my sexy shot of Leif Garret who was probably 15 at the time). The shot was for VANITY FAIR! I doubt their targeted demographic relies heavily on Disney watchers.

I think that when we allow "TV" stars to be the "role models" for our children it is a dangerous thing. Turn the TV off or better yet (because I like the TV) Watch it with your kids and EXPLAIN that Hannah Montana is a teenage girl who is ACTING! Unless you want your child to grow up to be an actor don't allow actors to be their "ROLE-models". Teach them about other amazing people who have made a difference in this world in which they weren't just "pretending" to be someone. Pull out a history book and TALK to your kids about who your role models were.

ok.... I kinda soap boxed it there, but for what it's worth. I think Miley is growing up and our kids will eventually too. Use the controversy to talk to your kids about role models, acting, photographers or whatever else might come up with, but don't lash out at a 15 year old girl who chose to be famous. (You can blame Billy Ray all you want.... that stupid song he made famous actually killed brain cells and my "achey breaky brain" will never be the same!)

Miley Cyrus headed down a slippery (half-naked) slope?

Mir Kamin — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:04:42 -0500

It's everywhere by now, and surely you've already seen it -- Miley Cyrus did a shoot with Vanity Fair, and the 15-year-old Hannah Montana star's cover shot features her looking over her naked shoulder, holding a satin bed sheet (or something that looks like one) over her naked front.

Nakedness! On the cover of a magazine! From a minor who is not just a tween idol, but one who's been owned by Disney and continually praised for not making the same mistakes other pop stars have!

The ensuing media storm has been extensive, and no wonder. From the New York Times to unknown bloggers, Ms. Cyrus is a hot topic right now.

What are the issues here? I'd say there are many. There's the matter of Cyrus being a legal minor, for one. There's her celebrity status and -- along with it -- her association with Disney and the whole "role model" position she is therefore to assume, like it or not. There's the debate of what is "appropriate" and what is "artistic," and we could talk about that for days, maybe even weeks or months. There's the matter of sexuality in America and its expression and where one places lines and whether there is a single standard one can pinpoint. And of course, there's the parenting issue.

Opinions are flying fast and furious through the blogosphere, that's for sure.

Jamie Lee Curtis blogged on the Huffington Post about it, first sounding as though she wasn't sure what the big fuss was about:

Apparently young Ms. Cyrus has apologized for something she was told would be artistic and now feels embarrassed about. I feel for her. Of course she is embarrassed. She is a young girl. She shouldn't have to deal with any of this. I don't feel that she was duped. I know the integrity of Ms. Liebovitz and the magazine and I know there were people present at the shoot that should have been looking out to make sure that this didn't happen. In the offending photo she looks tousled and soft and vulnerable and yes...even sexy. She is fifteen after all, and the word sex is starting to come up. I seem to remember a fourteen/fifteen year old Brooke Shields commenting that nothing came between her and her Calvins. There would be no problem if Ms. Cyrus doesn't represent something that is counterintuitive to that image.

At the end of her piece, though, she does give a nod to the age issue which I think is rather telling:

I know how Miley feels. I too was a little embarrassed by my recent topless "scandal" and the subsequent parodies, but I am an adult woman. I protected myself during the shoot and I can take the heat. I only wish that her guardians had protected her.

It's not clear to me whether Ms. Curtis wishes she'd been protected from having the pictures taken or from coming under scrutiny afterwards, however.

BlogHer's own editor Shannon had very recently held Miley Cyrus up as an example of how to handle fame without succumbing to the loss of balance and normalcy, and now she's furious to see what's happened here.

Jane at What About Mom? disagrees with Shannon about the ensuing talk with her children having to be a hard one:

But one thing about the handwringing bothers me. While I can only imagine how hard it is to have to explain to young sons about topless photos, I think we might miss a great teaching moment as parents if we approach it as Shannon seems to, angry that there’ll have to be an “unpleasant conversation in our house tonight, about modesty and decision-making and growing up too fast.”

[...]

First of all, the conversation could be pleasant, I think. [...]

But I think the greatest lesson to be learned here is about peer pressure, and how it can trick even parents, even sophisticated (one imagines), fame-experienced grown-ups. [...]

Miley's dad Billy Ray had a chance to be a real hero on that photo shoot, to stand up and say, "No. In our family we don't take off our clothes in public." And then to his daughter, he could have said, "Honey, you can say no to ANYONE. You never have to do anything that makes you feel uncomfortable, and if anyone ever asks you to, I hope you’ll come to me for help."

If he wanted to get real mushy, he could've added, "Miley, you and me, and your mom (and sisters and brothers). We're a team. We decide what’s right for us, and no matter what anyone else thinks or does or says in the world, we can do what’s right for us."

But I'm jaded about the Cyrus family business. I'm afraid they're probably more concerned with spinning the blame and soothing fans to spend time correcting their daughter's erroneous belief that "you can’t say no to Annie."

I love Jane's attitude, but I wonder if we're not having an issue of semantics, here. Those of us who weren't there (i.e., everyone except the folks working on the shoot) can only guess at how exactly this went down, of course, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I doubt Ms. Cyrus wanted to say no but felt coerced. I suspect she was there with a world-famous photographer who made a suggestion and she agreed, period. My question (and the question on many's minds) is whether or not her parents had second thoughts when this pose was suggested.

And it's on the parental Cyruses that the fickle finger of blame is most often coming to rest, of course. Over at cha.otic the author is quite clear on where she's pinpointed the problem:

Miley Cyrus didn’t cause this. Britney Spears didn’t cause this. Parents who allowed this trend to continue caused this. The media created an age where girls are pimped out so they (the media) can make a buck. And the victims? Just look at Britney Spears. She is a lost, spoiled, sick little girl who is in over her head, lost her children, and who is, I’d be willing to guess, the loneliest person in the world. Other girls suffer the same fate by turning to drugs, carelessness, and sex to validate their existance.

I feel sorry for Miley. She’s in for a world of trials before she’s actually an established, successful adult as she desperately wants to be in this shoot. At the end of the day, she is only at child.

Cyn at Cyn City is calling for Mom:

And yeah, Miley's too young if she wants to keep working for Disney to do these kind of shoots ( cover afte the jump) and if as she states, it embarrasses her, lesson learned, no more "back shots" under she's out from under her Ddisney obligations to be perfect. Judging however from recent photos, Miley's going through a phase where she's really chomping at the bit, pushing boundaries, but she'd best not yank Disney's chain unless she wants to be a former employee. We'll see how it goes. I think she needs handlers that don't include her father at something like this photo shoot 'cos obviously, he let it happen. Is there a Miley's mom or is she a step, or what? who is calling the shots?

(It looks to me from the slideshow on the Vanity Fair site like her mother was present at the shoot, by the way.)

Some parents are happy to place the blame squarely on Miley Cyrus herself, however, and they're taking it personally. Check out Reenita at Hybrid Mom:

As Hybrid Mothers of impressionable daughters, there is a lot we need to do to present ourselves as viable role models. Work, cook, nurture, inspire…and above all hold it together when walls come tumbling down. While we cannot rely on the media to support our every intention, it certainly helps to have other viable role models that our daughters can look to. Hannah Montana, a role model to thousands of young girls, has let us down. The New York Times article quotes Gary Marsh, the president of entertainment for the Disney channel, saying “For Miley Cyrus to be a ‘good girl’ is now a business decision for her.” Ironically, Miley’s business was built on the emotions of American girls. As a mother, I feel cheated.

On the other hand, there are women who feel that this entire thing has been blown out of proportion. Ashley of Ashley's Closet exhorts Ms. Cyrus not to apologize:

The media is bored and you have been a target ever since they caught you acting your age on Myspace. Big whoop. I'm sure Billy Ray and your mother can handle this and that child pornographer Annie Leibowitz.

For heaven's sake.

Also, media...she was not "topless". These "Topless Miley Cyrus Pics" in the headlines insinuates that Vanity Fair has got a 15 year old's boobies on display. Shame on all of you.

Annie Leibowitz wasn't photographing Hannah freaking Montana. She's the artist, Miley was the subject, she wants to see bare back, parents are present...this is a NON-ISSUE.

The pics with your dad? Only "provocative" out of context. Oh, a 15 year old snuggled up with her dad, the horror.

I'm offended on behalf of Annie, yourself and your parents and wish you hadn't apologized.

In a recent group discussion about this issue, I posed the following question: Would those of us who are offended by this picture feel the same about one showing the exact same amount of skin if Ms. Cyrus was simply wearing a backless gown? Is it about the "nudity?"

For me, my problem lies with the fact that she's underage and I find the picture intentionally sexual. It's not her naked back -- it's her tousled hair, her come-hither look, and the bed-sheet-esque cover; all of those things together combine to portray a post-coital vixen. And while I'm well aware that a 15-year-old could very well be comfortable in displaying her sexuality that way, I think putting such a picture of a minor on the cover of a national magazine is a mistake. Whether it's her mistake, her parents' mistake, Vanity Fair's mistake, or Annie Leibowitz's mistake... well, I certainly have my opinions, but they're just that: opinions.

I can't help it; I find both the cover and the subsequent hubbub deeply disturbing. I hope that some day I will sit down to write for BlogHer and won't have a broad array of stories about girls forced to grow up too quickly available to me. It seems unlikely, but I can hope.

BlogHer Contributing Editor Mir also blogs at Woulda Coulda Shoulda and Want Not.