BlogHer - How Do Childless People Really Feel About Your Pregnancy? - Comments

Oh and By the Way

BlondieChicago — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:10:55 -0500

I would LOVE to be a part of that panel, but alas I will not be attending Blogher for financial reasons this year. But you can bet I'll be reading!!!

Worst Part About All of This

BlondieChicago — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:09:50 -0500

...is when people say things to me that hit a little nerve of insensitivity. For example, Ma, who I love dearly, said last night, "Little is coming this weekend, but you don't have to spend all of the time with us if you don't want to."

And I said, "Why do people think I don't WANT to spend time with my own niece??!!" She giggled, but she was being serious. She wasn't sure I would want to spend a whole weekend with Little. And yes, Rita, you've said this kind of thing, too. ;) Sure, I get burned out on Kiddo Time, but so do the parents, and AHEM, grandparents.

The tough reality is that Childfuls can make two mistakes with Childless: 1. Assuming we NEVER want to spend time with your children 2. Assuming we want to spend ALL of our time with your children. There is a happy medium where we can all come together. You want some time without them sometimes and so do we. But we also love to see them and the pregnancy is often the funnest part for us because we get to rub your bellies and coo at you. Well, that's the funnest part for me. Nothing beats feeling a little one through SKIN. That still blows my mind.

So anyway..yeah. Love you!

Always the aunt...

Average Jane — Tue, 20 May 2008 12:05:51 -0500

In part because my husband and I do not have living mothers or grandmothers, we
never experienced external pressure to have kids. When
I was about to turn 35, we had one last discussion about the issue and
quickly decided that we liked our lifestyle (rock bands and cats) the way it was.

I'm always delighted when my friends and relatives have children. I love spending time with my niece and nephew, as well as my friends' kids (although I do appreciate being allowed to skip most children's birthday parties and play dates, as I find them overwhelming and exhausting).

I'll be interested to see how the "women without children" panel at BlogHer goes. How many of us are there?

A deep breath

nelle2nelle — Mon, 19 May 2008 19:07:41 -0500

...and I wade on in.

A couple of things come to mind, now to see if I can frame them - one relationship-centered, the other individually-centered - cogently.

Issues of how a relationship is viewed. We met in February 1976. Married in October 1979. Our eldest was born in July 1984. Our second and youngest in March 1992

Those are the basic facts, this is my outlook and why.

I intensely dislike being teased about having children. Hate it. Makes me crazy. It seemed like day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. "When are you going to have kids?" From co-workers. From some friends. From family. Ugh. The badgering can be quite insensitive, folks. Quite.

What if we had chosen not to have children? What if we could not have children? How would someone feel about this nonsense?

And after our first, came 'when are you going to have another one?'

Thud.

And now the personal issue. I'm a parent, but I'm not a mom. I love being a parent, but if there is one thing in this world I'd really wish to be is a mom. Errant biology made that impossible... but the desire, the yearning that I have to bury deeeeeeeep inside and stay away from, is there.

nelle

How to support a friend who can't have children

teh4 — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:47:16 -0500

A little different but really interesting perspective on how to support a loved one who is dealing with infertility. http://www.trusera.com/users/joysuzanne/journal_entries#entry_486

Great post, RIta.

Zandria — Mon, 19 May 2008 18:45:11 -0500

It's always nice to have this topic acknowledged by someone who has children and understands that not everyone wants the same thing. I guess I would consider myself part of the "temporary childless" group, in that I think I'll have at least one child sometime in the future. But at age almost-28, it's still far from my thoughts.

Personal blog: Keep Up With Me
BlogHer blog: Singles/Fitness

Your Happiness is My Happiness

Pam — Mon, 19 May 2008 16:31:16 -0500

I'm delighted in nineteen different ways when my friends have kids. I'm really really happy that their smart wonderful genes are making the babies that I'm not. I'm happy for the babies themselves that they get to have such fab parents. I'm happy for the parents, because they are making beautiful families. I'm totally down with the whole thing, though I do not want to babysit (though you can totally count on me in a pinch) and I am unlikely to discipline your kid(s) unless they're really getting it to some bad business and you are not in sight.

Just coz I don't want/have my own kids doesn't mean I don't totally dig yours. Furthermore, one of my best pals - I know her kids well and adore them - has asked me for advice on kid related issues when seeking a little perspective that's not clouded by "mom-ness."

If I love you, I pretty much can be counted on to love your kids too. Just coz I don't have 'em (never wanted 'em, never changed my mind, never apologized for it) doesn't mean I don't like ANY KIDS at ALL. To think that of me isn't really fair.

Not saying you do. But the assumption does get made and it's wrong.

Nerd's Eye View

Oh, they absolutely have a right to their opinions.

lauriewrites — Mon, 19 May 2008 13:30:53 -0500

Besides, if I were a parent I don't think I'd want a person around my child who didn't want to be there or felt inconvenienced by them. Kids pick up on that stuff really easily and it's not cool.

I just think that the sometimes-strident, anti-parent and child voices are the ones that get pointed out more commonly among single/childless people. That's why I go to bat more for the gray areas...I'll go out on a shaky limb and say it's way harder to be vulnerable and say "Include me, please, in the life of your child and vice versa" ESPECIALLY when people don't seem to know what to do with you (me) as the late-30-something single person. It's nice to think that I can bring something to the table. And I have to say that being single/childless has not exonerated me from any baby showers that I know of, so why go away just when the fun kicks in? ;) (Joke.)

Laurie

Good point, Laurie.

Rita Arens — Mon, 19 May 2008 12:03:45 -0500

That may be a viewpoint I left out -- oops. I think childless people are as vast in their attitudes toward children as childful people are in their attitudes about single people. However, I get a lot of feedback from childless people who share the opinions I've vetted here, and I think they totally have a right to those opinions. I really want to hear that panel at BlogHer.

Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

Rita Arens is a contributing editor for BlogHer -- Mommy & Family.

Couple things.

lauriewrites — Mon, 19 May 2008 09:38:53 -0500

First of all, thanks for writing about this, Rita.

The more I read what people write I'm even more glad we're having the "women without children" panel this summer at BlogHer. I hope we'll have a good mix of people/life situations in the audience.

Still...just as it shouldn't be assumed that I want to participate in the lives of my friends' children, it shouldn't be assume that I don't. Sometimes the best thing people can do for me - a single person without a family, not by conscious choice - is include me in their lives with kids, without, whatever. It's a part of life, having children, and I like to be surrounded by it sometimes. I'm a little weird about the discipline thing, although I've been an oldest child/grandchild for so many years that I'm incredibly bossy and I do have some common sense...I jsut don't want to upset my friends by butting in. I was fine with telling my godson to chill out...and obviously when I've watched my friends' kids, but I haven't really intervened since when I'm out with friends and their kids are along. (Exception - if they were at my house and tormented my dog, which seems to be a popular kid activity. That's not allowed. ;))

See, the thing is I would never view it as "letting" you bring her along. You do or you don't. it needs to be treated as more than an "otherness" on both sides in order to make it more bearable for everyone, I think...and maybe even more of a happy thing?

I loved Carissa's comment: "I feel horrible but some days I cannot deal with their season and mine
(and I firmly believe the opposite is true some days they cannot deal
with their season and mine)" This is life, and at the heart of this is friendship, in lots of directions. When my best friend from high school was in the hospital having her second child, I was melting down for the final (real) time over my ex. I couldn't bring myself to call or go by because I knew I would not be able to stop crying and I was embarrassed, then when I didn't go or call I felt guilty. How dare I have feelings at this happy time, right? Anyway, she called me. She asked me what in the hell was wrong, because they'd cut her open and taken a human being out and she hadn't heard from me, so obviously there was something pressing going on. I told her the truth, in the restroom at the restaurant where I was getting together with him for some unhealthy reason or another. I told her I felt terrible but this was the situation and I honestly didn't know what to do, I just couldn't pull it together. She said that I couldn't be expected to always be on point when my life was happening at the same time, and it smoothed it all out and took the burden off of my shoulders when I desperately needed that.

it was one of the kindest things anyone has ever done for me. Her kids are two of my favorite people. I guess as much as I wish I was a mom I'm still happy I get to have friends of all ages.

Laurie

LaurieWrites

How Do Childless People Really Feel About Your Pregnancy?

Rita Arens — Mon, 19 May 2008 09:04:20 -0500

Before my daughter was born, I regarded pregnant women with awe and fear. I couldn't imagine what it would feel like to have something growing inside you, and I thought surely these women must realize their lives were ending as I watched.

Let's just say I wasn't very mature. I feared kids, too. I actually tried to convince a doctor to tie my tubes when I was 18. Thank God he had ethics and refused, because here I am writing about mommies and kids all the time. Ah, the irony.

My sister, Blondie, and I have had many talks about being childless versus childful, and ever since I became a mom, she's given me the "other" viewpoint. I have to give her credit for helping me find these links. Notes childless Blondie:

When I talked to Shrinky the other day, I told her that one of my local friends was pregnant and that this scared me. I was afraid of the relationship changing. It's happened time and time again. But with this particular friend, I can do or say just about anything and she'll never judge me. It's amazing, really. Her amount of compassion and nonjudgment. So I want to be that way for her. I explained this to Shrinky. I said, "I really don't want to lose her because she has a baby." We went through why I feel this way. I ticked off the names of friends I've lost and relationships that have changed over the years. We agreed that I should try my hardest to keep it in perspective. This is what people do. They grow up. They get married. They procreate. Well, except me. (snickers)

JP went to a "pregnancy party" even though she's childless and single.

Carissa writes wistfully of missing her friends and not being able to relate to their lives:

I have no idea what being pregnant is like and most likely never will – I know what I have heard from my friends or read in a book but not in person. I cannot tell my labor and delivery story or laugh about what my newborn baby is doing now. At some point these friends and I’s seasons will be the same again but for right now they could not be more different and I feel horrible but some days I cannot deal with their season and mine (and I firmly believe the opposite is true some days they cannot deal with their season and mine) – while we are happy for each other and want to be there for each other it is hard to be a true friend and listen and tell your friend it will all work out when you have NO IDEA what is going to happen. There are things we say such as “well I read that..” or “another friend did …” or “I wish I could help more than just listening” – and before you know it if that season lasts long at all you and your friend now just seem to be passing acquaintances.

Some childless women are temporarily childless, if you will, and plan to have kids later on. Others are childless by choice and have made a conscious decision to not ever have kids. And those who are childless by choice are really pretty tired of having their decisions questioned.

Over at The Renaissance for the New Millenium:

By contrast, society treats childless women as suspect. They assume that all women have maternal feelings, that all women yearn to create life. People in general assume that single and childless people are eager to view other’s snapshots of their children and grandchildren, or to have their working day interrupted by a co-worker who brings the newest addition to their family into the office. An assumption is made that childless single women are self-centered, soulless, emasculating creatures concerned only with their careers. And we’re certainly not deserving of time off, though we work as hard as our counterparts with families, and our taxes help to pay for the schools attended by the children of said counterparts.

Julie Maneti is sick of the childful thinking she should have to be part of the village just because she's standing nearby without a baby in her arms:

Hillary Clinton introduced Americans to the notion that "it take a village to raise a child," and while I'm all for setting a good example and enjoying kids, some parents seem to feel that everyone ought to be literally raising their child. That is not the job of family friends. In the same way that I don't pay their bills or mow their lawn, I don't think it's my place to help teach Johnny not to wet the bed. I'm getting a little tired of parents who take advantage of single friends, figuring that our lives must not be as busy, so hey, why not? Parenthood is an admirable job they decided to take on; to this point, I've decided against it. I guess that's why I get mad when they try to dump things on me without even asking.

I have to admit, it NEVER occurred to me when I was single and childless that I would have to participate in any way in my friends' children's lives. Yes. Horrible of me? Or justified? After my daughter was born, I went through a brief hormonal and crazed phase during which I needed and begged for help from everyone in grabbing distance. Four years later, I have different expectations for my childful and childless friends. If you have kids and you're my friend, I admit I probably expect you to discipline my kid. After all, you have practice! And your kid is probably doing the same thing my kid is! But thanks to my sister and my other childless friends, I don't expect them to do anything about or to my child. I appreciate if they let me bring her along when we're together, and I try to spend time with them without her, too. I'm learning to remember what it was like before I procreated. But oh, it is hard.