BlogHer - More in the American War on Tourism - Comments

In, out, no difference

kimba — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 18:49:47 -0500

In, out, no difference really. When a lockdown happens, it happens in both directions. I understand what you are reporting is about folks being kept out or made to hand over personal information to get in, but even as one of the clips you posted said, this may backfire for us travelers because other countries may retaliate by making it difficult for us to visit them. It's a kind of passive aggressive act on the part of our gov't if that's the way it works, don't you think?

I'm not paranoid! ;)

Just coz you're paranoid

Pam — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:32:18 -0500

You know the saying, right?

But Kimba, in this case, it's about people getting IN, not out. I do feel that there's something insidious in the politics of fear and inconvenience, after all, it's just a little web form, just a little data, just a little if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear thinking.

I do think that we have to continue to exercise our rights, travel being one of them, and capitulating to rules without asking questions means that creeping fascism isn't just our gov'ts fault, it's our own, too.

And Crunchy, if that's a true story, I'd like to see links. Yup, I sure would. Because equally troublesome is the idea that people are SAYING what's happening on the borders again, out of fear.

Nerd's Eye View

my dh heard too that customs guys were

Crunchy Carpets — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 17:07:13 -0500

confiscating people's MP3 players and iPods in case us criminal Canadians were listening to illegally downloaded music on our vacations to the US.

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

Conspiracy Theory ...

kimba — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 16:39:44 -0500

My imagination is just too active some would say - but ever since the last election, I've been waiting for the other shoe to fall.

I've had this suspicion that somehow our country would be going into lockdown. And even though I imagined that one day we would wake up and all of a sudden we wouldn't be able to leave, I think on some level the whole workings of the economy, airlines, oil prices, walls being built on the border, and Homeland Security shenanigans are somehow accomplishing this without stinking of a master plan.

Call me crazy, I expect you to.

There's a Department of Homeland Security Blog?

jebut071 — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:03:27 -0500

Seriously?

Love,
Jenny

http://www.bloggingforjesus.net

Also, economics

Suzanne Reisman — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:30:29 -0500

Plus, it's not like Europeans and other people with stronger economies and monies are coming here and propping up our cities or anything like that. Let's just be sure that they can't contribute to our local economies. That'll show 'em!

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

Horrible, bad, stupid, idiotic, moronic, foolish, insane...

Suzanne Reisman — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 21:29:11 -0500

Need I go on? What a dumb idea. How shocking from this administration, which seems to go out of its way to make people hate Americans.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

Lonnnnger lines, more disappointments at Customs

KateSavage — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 12:55:22 -0500

I was wondering how long it would be actually (because I'm Canadian), before I would be photographed and fingerprinted like my fellow travellers, (en route from far and near reaches of the earth), because as a non-resident of the U.S. I often find myself lining up in lonnnnnnnng, lonnnnnnnnnnng, lonnnnnnnnng processing lines at airports - occasionally missing connecting flights because of the delay.

And, now, the prospect of pre-registration (and all possible complications involved) for some of these travellers...

I'm not sure this is the solution to whatever problem is intended to be solved here, but I do know, the thought of it is making my feet hurt hurt already!

All Over the Place - travel, dating and other mistakes

More in the American War on Tourism

Pam — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:56:22 -0500

Travelers who don't need visas to enter the United States will be required to register online with the U.S. government at least three days before they visit, a security regulation set to begin next year.--AP/Google Officials say the change in the program is needed to protect against individuals who pose a threat to the United States, even though they come from a country that is friendly to America.--ABC News

Start rant. On a broad level, treating tourists like criminals is bad for diplomacy. Citizen diplomacy is something I am deeply passionate about, I happen to think citizen efforts put government efforts in to shame. All the humans I've met on a face to face basis, from Pakistan to Phnom Pehn, are able to separate governments from people. They all seem to shake their heads in the same sad manner - "Man, your/our government is whacked..." and move on to talk about the things we all have in common - and, more often than not, express their extreme desire to visit the US some day. Acting as though those people - the ones who want to see our National Parks, shop in our mega-malls, and wonder at our diversity - does unimaginable damage to our credibility in the world.

On a personal level, my family is full of foreigners and my life is full of foreign friends. In-laws from Austria, old friends from Germany, new friends from Italy - all countries affected by the new law - show up here, wanting to see how we live, bringing odd little things that are hard to find in the US and returning back to their homelands with equally odd little things - and impressions of an America that is friendly, open, welcoming, and almost meets the fictional idea of our great nation that we so like to believe is true. Putting obstacles in between those visitors and late, jet laggy breakfasts at my kitchen table does nothing to increase our security, deters sensitive travelers from visiting at all, angers me, and oh, I'll just say it, stinks of creeping fascism: "Papers, please?" End rant.

From the producer of our poorly-orchestrated increased airline security measures (”Only Terrorists Carry 200 ml of Toothpaste”) and the creator of the color-based national security threat chart (”Like Clockwork, Orange!”), a new move certain to alienate our closest friends and allies: starting January 12, 2009, all travelers to the U.S. who travel without visa restrictions (15 million people annually) will now be required to register themselves and their travel plans online at least 72 hours prior to travel or be denied boarding on their chosen air or sea carrier.--Less Than a Shoestring

The truth, it seems to me, is that this is a solution in search of a problem. Checking the background information of passengers might prevent the dumbest would-be terrorists from boarding US-bound flights, but I'm not sure those are the ones we need to be concerned about. Any remotely sophisticated terrorists, like those of the 9-11 attacks, will be able to find ways around the new regulations. What the new rules actually do, rather than make the US demonstrably safer, is create another hoop for foreign travelers to jump through before they visit (and spend money in) the United States.--Gadling

Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing to hide. But the thought of logging my passport number into a computerized system 72 hours before I’m set to go, to wait as my name is checked against a terror watch list, raises visions of all those zombie-like automatons wandering around that fictitious world of George Orwell’s. According to the article, the Europeans are balking, too, with concerns about what will happen to the collected information and how long it will be held.--Write Away!

You will soon see the nations that are being harassed by Homeland Security retaliating against Americans by doing the same thing to us. So don’t bother looking for any “last minute” deals on travels -- sure they might be there but unless you register on line three days before hand (which you can’t do with a lot of last minute travel deals) you can’t go. And that will make travel for everyone a little more expensive. How? Right now the travel industry often fills empty spaces with last minute deals to reduce any loses from being under booked. If that becomes more difficult then those cost get recouped by higher fees.Classically Liberal (note: absolutely a rant, but with sharp conclusions)

Homeland Security says we've got it wrong. From the Department of Homeland Security blog (can we take a minute to say that again: DHS blog?!?!):

Of course, no policy achievement in Washington is complete without press that doesn’t quite get it right. To be clear, this is not a visa; it is a substitute for forms that visa waiver travelers already fill out, and it is based on an Australian reporting system that has never been seen as a visa by other countries. Nor does it require 72 hours notice for travel to the U.S. It is recommended that individuals who plan to travel under the VWP apply for their ESTA as early as possible so as to avoid last minute problems. ESTA has been designed to accept applications for last minute and emergency travel.

What the new proposal looks like (and the Telegraph has a lot more background) is a means of applying for visa waiver over the Internet 3 days before you travel. This gives the US authorities a lot more time to check you out, and hopefully avoid stupid mistakes like denying entry to kids who have the same name as someone on a terrorist watch list. It also means that if a problem does crop up they might be able to let you know before you travel, and give you a chance to sort things out before you leave. And it looks like the whole process is going to apply for a two-year period, so once you are approved that should mean 2 years of relatively hassle-free travel.--Cheryl's Mewsings

But, let’s look at the bright side of the law.
In reality, the tourists and businessmen will not be providing any additional information than they fill in on the I-94W paper forms normally passed out on-board airplanes while winging their way across the Atlantic or Pacific. Plus, rather than having to fill out the form every time one visits the U.S.A. this electronic data will be valid for multiple entries over two years.

Is the DHS program “streamlining” the system? Yes, and in the long run, making it easier for multiple reentries.--TripSo

I'd like to believe that the DHS is telling the truth about this program, that it's the same program that already exists, only moved to a high tech implementation. But the DHS is still denying boarding to travelers for ridiculous reasons, still putting passengers on no-fly lists, still dealing with the issue that two people on the planet might have the same name - I feel nothing but distrust for the digitization of more personal data. Perhaps this is a step forward in visa management, but I sincerely doubt it. A government that's suspicious of more than three ounces of toothpaste and a bottle of water is not one I feel comfortable trusting.

Pam blogs about travel and other adventures at Nerd's Eye View.