BlogHer - Memo to Senator McCain: Wife Beating Jokes Are Not Funny ( Even If They are Famous) - Comments

It is not, and never was, a joke.

degeneratescum@gmail.com — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 11:27:57 -0500

I have to marvel at the author's ability to read the wikipedia article that clearly explains this particular logical fallacy, and still not get it.

"When did you stop beating your wife?", or variation therof, is indeed a well-known phrase. It is not intended humorously, nor did McCain use it as such. It is a standard objection that indicates the question assumes facts not in evidence.

I'll concede that given the reaction in some quarters, his turn of phrase was Ill-advised - but that merely betrays a lack of education on the part of the critics.

Bingo!

Nordette — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 16:45:31 -0500

But the point is when you are courting women votes, why chance it?

I wonder if he's really trying to court women's votes. Maybe it's just
his campaign manager who realizes that he needs to court our votes, but
McCain himself could care less. I don't think he's sensitive to what
offends women.

About McCain calling his wife the C-word in '92. Michelle
Obama being accused of using the word "whitey" created more waves and
it's not true that she did that. What's wrong with this picture and
how folks feel about misogynistic comments?

Nordette Adams is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is at this link. ... McCain: "I didn't love America until ... "

Critical mass

Jill Miller Zimon — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:51:42 -0500

This is an issue of reaching critical mass re: the tone McCain would set as president - in his communications and dialogue, whether women are in the room or not. Other exhibits:

1. Response to Lilly Ledbetter case: more women need more training, they don't need the ability to sue employers who make money by paying women less

2. When he was asked about how he would "beat the bitch" he laughed uncomfortably and for an uncomfortably long time and then said, excellent question!

3. Scheduling then cancelling then postponing a fundraising event tied to Clayton Williams - the man who lost to Ann Richards and had compared rape to the weather re: inevitability and just letting it happen.

No one is saying that this specific incident in and of itself is worth getting all up in arms over but the critical mass that McCain is building all on his own as to how he thinks about women and relationships between men and women, there is just no way to find it acceptable - whether it's a poorly timed joke that few people know or willfully ignoring the need for better remediation when it comes to fair pay.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

abc on the mccain comments

Erin Kotecki Vest — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 10:21:34 -0500

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/06/mccain-gambles.html

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

I've heard that joke before, several times.

Backpacking Dad — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:45:50 -0500

So I would count myself as someone who is familiar with it. It's a little rhetorical trick that gets tossed around a bit when you discuss rhetoric, logic, paradox, etc...all day long.

But even I wouldn't have made the connection between what he said and the rhetorical tactic he was invoking. It would have taken me a good two or three mental moves.

So it's something that's in the back of his head whenever he thinks of "loaded question". I don't know why that's cue that lingers there.

http://backpackingdad.blogspot.com

There is a big discussion on this

Erin Kotecki Vest — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:17:12 -0500

Going on over at Friend Feed. And the main argument I'm hearing is 'this is so common it's not even about wife beating, it's like saying you are sick as a dog, but being offended as a dog' - ok, bad example. But the point is when you are courting women votes, why chance it?Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Is it a joke that McCain called his wife a ...

Nordette — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:44:31 -0500

Unless it's a hoax, didn't McCain call Cindy the "C" word also, which I talked about last week? If it's true, and so far he hasn't admitted he did so despite reports, then why would we be surprised that he'd make a wife-beater joke?

I know the video about what he called his wife is satire, but according to what I've read, it's based on a true incident. It seems to me he's what people used to call an obnoxious boor, unless the reports of his profanity-laden snarls are false.

Wait, what am I saying? We have video of this man joking through song about bombing Iran. What comes out of his mouth should never surprise us.

Nordette Adams is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is at this link. ... John McCain's Vagina Monologue.

Entirely possible

Erin Kotecki Vest — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 23:12:20 -0500

...and I said, I know some VERY well known and cliche' racist phrases used in common situations. Seems to me this was just an attempt at humor and turn of famous phrase that really isn't necessary. I'm not outraged, I'd just like to hear 'I think that's a loaded question' as an answer next time.

Politics & News Contributing Editor
Queen of Spain

Poor attempt to turn aside an uncomfortable remark

vbruss — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 22:55:36 -0500

...that's all this was. The famous joke is that, to make someone look bad on a witness stand, you ask him, "So when did you stop beating your wife?" Of course, there is no way to answer without making yourself look worse ("I didn't," or "Last Tuesday," won't cut it).

It was clumsy, but certainly nothing to get riled up about. I'm surprised you hadn't heard of this one; seems like it is always brought up in discussions about character and political poll ratings for candidates. John McCain knew he was being tossed an unanswerable question and tried to deflect it. Obviously, he wasn't successful, but he wasn't disparaging women in any way.

I'm not a McCain supporter, by the way, any more than I am an Obama supporter. It's more like I'm a supporter of anyone other than Bush being President, so I am cutting McCain some slack on this one.

I do think that it's important for us, as women, to pick our battles and fight when we feel we are truly being demeaned or denigrated, but that wasn't what was going on here.

Viv

http://coolmomsrule.blogspot.com

If a Democratic candidate of

Dana J. Tuszke — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:49:09 -0500

If a Democratic candidate of the same age as McCain made a joke such as this, would we be having this discussion? In no way would I ever defend such a tactless remark, but this seems so trivial. McCain is an odd duck, I get that. And he says infuriating things, it's unfortunate -- But, I really wish he'd stop with the jokes and get down to serious business matters like health care and unemployment, and pay equality for women.

Has the senator even made an attempt to come forward and address BlogHer's Voter Manifesto as Senator Obama has? I'm still waiting, Senator McCain. That's right, he'd rather avoid questions and make stupid jokes to distract us and sadly I think it's working.

Memo to Senator McCain: Wife Beating Jokes Are Not Funny ( Even If They are Famous)

Erin Kotecki Vest — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:11:00 -0500

Apparently there is some old joke about being asked a loaded question:

"Are you still beating your wife?"

Of course I had never heard this used before, not in the context of lawyers or trials or even reporting.

Fine. Fair enough. I sure don't know every pop-culture catch phrase out there (yes, I'm snickering).

So today when I came across remarks made by Senator John McCain to the Las Vegas Sun, I about fell out of my chair.

(On why he didn't choose Gov. Jim Gibbons to chair his Nevada campaign?)

I appreciate his support. As you know, the lieutenant governor is our chairman.

(Why snub the governor?)

I didn’t mean to snub him,. I've known the lieutenant governor for 15 years and we've been good friends….I didn't intend to snub him. There are other states where the governor is not the chairman.

(Maybe it's the governor's approval rating and you are running from him like you are from the president?)

(Chuckling) And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago….

Yes, Senator McCain laughed and made a joke about loaded questions and beating his wife, apparently riffing off some well turned phrase.

At best, this is just a poor, poor, poor, cliche' to pick when you are courting Clinton voters. At worst, he's perpetuating his image as "old school" and "sexism is funny."

I informally polled some friends and family of various ages and only one had heard this phrase used before- my neighbor who is in his 70's. I'm guessing the younger demo, widely voting for Senator Obama, looked at that Las Vegas Sun quote and did the same thing I did..."HE SAID WHAT???!!! AND HE THINKS THAT'S FUNNY???!!!"

I'm doing my best to keep a level head in this election (and now everyone else snickers) so I immediately e-mailed Liz Mair of the RNC. If and when she responds, I will post an update here.

In the meantime, what the hell is McCain thinking making a joke half of us don't know is a joke???

Wonkette writes, "What does that Joke even mean? That John McCain trying to keep his distance from President Bush/Jim Gibbons is about as likely as him beating up his wife recently? Well for shame. We want a president who continues beating up his trollop wife IN THE WHITE HOUSE."

Erica Saves the Day writes, "As my mom says, sarcasm always has an element of truth..."

I give McCain credit for making an attempt at humor, I really do. But could he have picked a WORSE joke? And yes, the candidates misspeak. We've been over this. McCain didn't misspeak here though, he intentionally invoked a tasteless joke about beating wives.

I've heard a ton of well-known jokes that invoke racism too, should I bust one of those out next time I run for office?

Contributing Editor Erin Kotecki Vest also blogs at Queen of Spain blog