BlogHer - The Latest Dust-up on The View and Hipster Racism at it's Worst - Comments

You rocked it!

Nordette — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 00:01:29 -0500

Hi, Laina. I dropped by earlier tonight and started writing a comment to you on this post, and it grew and grew and grew. So, I tossed the post I'd intended to publish tonight at BlogHer, and developed what I was writing in response to your post.

You did a great job with this complex subject. No bones about it.

Nordette is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is hosted on another site at this link.

Thank you Yvette and Lara

lainad — Sat, 26 Jul 2008 08:04:23 -0500

Yvette, that poem made me want to cry! I have never read such a succinct interpretation on that issue before. It's sad that it was written so long ago and that the same issues stil exist. Thank you.

Lara, that conference is really interesting. I'm going to bookmark the link to remind people closer to the date.

Cheers, Laina

Contributing Editor - Race, Ethnicity & Culture

Writing is Fighting: www.lainad.typepad.com

I'm Posting this Here, too

Laracolvin — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:55:05 -0500

At the Race & Gender session at BlogHer ‘08, I mentioned the White Privilege Conference, a conference dedicated to exploring ways to dismantle systems of
privilege, supremacy, and oppression. This conference takes place each
year and each time is hosted by a different university. 2009’s conference is in Memphis, I think. Below are the links for anyone interested.

WPC Conference 2009
http://www.uccs.edu/~wpc/index.htm

2008 WPC’s Final Program
http://www.uccs.edu/~wpc/documents/WPCFinalProgram.pdf

Lara

Notions of Identity

Tears

Yvette Perry — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 15:14:06 -0500

Laina, this discussion about crying reminded me of this piece:

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/4469/tears.html

Also, the concept of "hipster racism" reminded me of this book that is on my list to read: Breaking the Code of Good Intentions: Everyday Forms of Whiteness by Melanie Bush.

Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast

amen, Lainad

Mata H — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 09:56:00 -0500

"if you want to call it 'rage' so be it. I'm too tired to argue over how having an opinion makes me an angry person."

People are perceived as angry by those folks who magnify their remarks with their own internal fear or resistance.

On the other hand, what is wrong with being pissed off by injustice or unfairness?

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Maybe some analogies there!!

Jill Miller Zimon — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:57:06 -0500

Debbie - there are some great threads that have been weaved - woven? woved? lol - at BlogHer over time on these issues, directly and indirectly, and working toward getting conversation going - you might enjoy just reading some of them but goodness I hope you will keep commenting! I am CERTAIN that there have GOT to be great analogies to food, recipes, etc. to all this that could only help.

Sorry if that sounds silly - I only know from my experience that jumping in, listening to and reading and asking questions has brought me a whole lot further than I've ever been to understanding why discussing race and racism, let alone becoming an anti-racist - which I'm still trying to understand what that means and if it's the right word or not.

Welcome, and thank YOU.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

FYI when you find time

Jill Miller Zimon — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:51:11 -0500

Every time I write "when you find time" to anyone else? I always laugh out loud because I know how I stifle laughs when I read it if it's been directed at me - so know that I'm laughing when I write then as in, "as if!" re: finding time.

That being said...lol...if you DO find time or take a minute, here are two commentaries/live blogs of the race and gender panel at BlogHer last weekend - I think you'll see some assertions about the need to stick our necks out - i was saying it in terms of white women but also anyone who seeks to engage in these conversations. I was trying to say, "Do not worry - to the point of not engaging - about being wrong OR offending but, of course, don't be getting all hot and bothered KNOWING that what you say WILL offend" -if you know what I mean?

Anyway - I'll let others' impressions via the liveblog and the tweetstream give you a sense of how it went.

The only thing I regret is that I know, from listening to and reading WOC blogs, I need to not make anything about me when these discussions occur and I feel that I did do that more than I should have but that it was a bit a part of the plan for the session - so, I'm a bit torn about that. But, I talk - a LOT - and it's a big thing I need to stop doing in these conversations - which is why I appreciate the fantastic WOC blogs out there that I can just read and read and read and learn from.

Ok - here are the links! Sorry for the long preamble (and thank you again for this post):

Liveblog and I'm working to get the exact tweetstream but it's at amylive (was done on7/18/08)

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Thank YOU

ChefDebbie — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:34:34 -0500

Thank you for letting me participate in this, my first thread on Blogher. I've found it enlightening and invigorating.

My son-in-law is one of those young black men who was raised by parents who made very selfish decisions. I have seen his pain that has resulted from those decisions and, although he will no doubt carry that pain throughout his life, he has made a conscious effort to be the best man he can possibly be. He is a wonderful father to our grandchildren, a devoted and kind husband to our daughter, and a loyal and attentive son to us. I have seen the result of what one man can do with a dream and determination.

Although I've enjoyed this discourse, I think I'll return to blogging about food. Come visit me and we'll enjoy the univesal language of food and wine together!

Bon Appetit!
Chef Debbie

Keep doing it!

Laracolvin — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:03:14 -0500

I don't think you should apologize for your attitude or stance or perspective...at all. The reference to the comment at BlogHer was about language in the larger sense and where we go from here (discussion to action, for example) - not specifically about this kind of interaction, which is quite constructive I think. I hope you didn't take that reference as criticism of your post.

Thanks again for starting this.

Notions of Identity

No Apologies Necessary

Megan Smith — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:00:55 -0500

Hi Laina,

No apologies necessary.

Megan Smith
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute: Quirky Commentary Around The Clock

This is Awesome!

lainad — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:36:58 -0500

Thanks to everyone who has participated on this thread.

I just wanted to throw something out there, something that I picked up from a couple of posters. What exactly is whining?

Jesse Jackson may have his faults, and that is okay. Regardless of the many 'slip-ups' he has made over the years - okay, well maybe slip-ups is going a bit easy on him ( I'm thinking 'Hymietown') is has done a lot for the African-American community. And so has Al Sharpton - love him or hate him. More people, regardless of ethnicity need to step up to the plate, show their ass to the world and get down to business. So instead of trying to bring Jackson down, he has done more for black folks than those who are critisizing him right now. Like Obama, he is no 'Magic Negro.' We don't need one.

I would hate for anyone to refer to people discussing racsim, sexism, ageism or classism as whining. Why should anyone ' suck it up' if they feel discriminated against? There are two things about this that I want to address:

From my own experience, if I do not take action ( volunteer work within Toronto, writing, etc.) about the issues that affect my community, I would go mad. Especially when I see no reason for discriminatory acts, other than people who feel that who they are and what they think is superior to other people based on the above catergories. To me, it simply does not make sense. Life is too short and everyone has the right to be treated equally as a human being. We need to call people out, especially those in the media and / or people in positions of authority on their bullshit. These people are supposed to either represent a large constituent of people and / or because they are in the media, are looked upon by a great number of people. If they act like fools, we, the taxpayers and media watchers have every right to call them on their bullshit.

Secondly, 'whining' and caring about other people in our communities beside our individual needs and wants should never be considered wrong. I have my own issues with my brothers and sisters, but ultimately I care about them. I do not want to stand by and think ' well as long as it isn't happening to me, it's okay.' Because when you might need support, you will want others to be there for you.

I am tired of seeing young black kids feel shitty about themselves, suffering from low self-esteem because of bad parenting from mom and dads who also feel shitty about themselves. I am tired of people saying that media only reflects one type of beauty ideal and that they have to beleive in it, thereby hating themselves because they will never live up to their ideal.

In the other hand, I am also sick and tired of people who watch too much godamn TV and think that all black folks act and look alike. And those who think that we need 'leaders' to keep us in line, like we are cattle who just broke down a fence and are running in every direction. Read a bloody book.

I will never apologize for my 'attitude' on these situations. I was not present at Blogher SF so I do not know what was said. I will expect that if there are more contructive ways of dealing with these matters, my lovely fellow CE's, most notably Megan Smith and Maria Niles will fill me in. I can't promise that I'll listen to them, though! (just joking........) Until then, I will keep doing what I do.

Okay, I'm finsished ranting. Too much wine, and a long day working in the fields.

Contributing Editor - Race, Ethnicity & Culture

Writing is Fighting: www.lainad.typepad.com

I agree

ChefDebbie — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:26:25 -0500

I agree, Tracy. It is not proof that any side of an argument is correct simply by being offended. Isn't this simply a conversation about exploring perspectives and not determining a winning side of an argument?

Need more clarification, please

Laracolvin — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:59:20 -0500

" "You are insinuating that those who use that term - in various contexts
- are not working hard to raise respectful, articulate children."

No, I
am not insinuating that. That is a statement that I am making and
believe to be true, or it would not be so rigorously defended by those
who exemplifly an inability to string 6 words into a sentence without
using a curse word and, unfortunately, have a public voice and are
emulated by thousands of blacks. "

I'm still unclear.So instead of suggesting what I said above, you are making the statement that what I said you were insinuating is fact. Is this correct? I'm pushing on this again for many reasons - one being the issue of language. I doubt Randall Kennedy, a professor at Harvard Law School and author of the book, Nigger, could be considered (whether one agrees with him or not) unable to string 6 words together into a sentence. As for the public voice you were addressing, are you referring to hip hop, or gangsta rap? Because those two are very different things. Or are you referring to something altogether different. I just want to be sure I understand you so I'm not making assumptions about what you mean.

Notions of Identity

Difference

myrnatheminx — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:55:01 -0500

There's a difference between engaging in a conversation and proving that you're right. E. Hasselback has that same problem.

Yours, Tracy Viselli (a.k.a. Myrna the Minx)

My Company

Reno Fabulous Media: www.renofabulousmedia.com
My Main Blog
Reno and Its Discontents: www.renodiscontent.com

Profile

ChefDebbie — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:08:24 -0500

Lara, I had the day off today and decided, after having for many months read the blogs of many members of Blogher, to become one. Alas! I stumbled upon this post before I had the opportunity to figure out how to create my profile! I will do so just as soon as I figure out how to do it! I hope you were able to catch your breath!

"And - I think calling the use of the N-word a "term of endearment" by the "family" is quite patronizing if not downright disrespectful." Oh, this is a quote and not meant to be disrespectful. Just an illustration of the ridiculousnous of this argument, and it is ridiculous.

"You are insinuating that those who use that term - in various contexts - are not working hard to raise respectful, articulate children." No, I am not insinuating that. That is a statement that I am making and believe to be true, or it would not be so rigorously defended by those who exemplifly an inability to string 6 words into a sentence without using a curse word and, unfortunately, have a public voice and are emulated by thousands of blacks.

"What I get is that this whole discussion of the "N" word began with Jesse Jackson's reference to Barack Obama" Okay, I should have inserted "recent" between "this" and "whole." Once again I submit that the discussion is being re-directed to avoid discussion of JJ and his responsibility for his own actions and responsibility to society as a so-called leader of civil rights.

The Latest Dust-up on The View and Hipster Racism at it's Worst

lainad — Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:52:32 -0500

There have been two recent situations that have gained media attention which have been challenging to those with strong opinions on race and racism. Last week there was a ‘discussion’ on The View between so-hosts, Elizabeth Hasselbeck, Whoopi Goldberg and Sherri Sheppard on the usage of the N-Word (click on the link above to see the video). A quick recap: Hasselbeck argued that no one should use the N-word and Goldberg and Sheppard, who admitted that she used it, tried to explain to her about the nuances of the N-word, why some black people use it in a different connotation than white folks. It didn’t go very well. Here is the transcript.

These days it seems to be extremely challenging to step out of our self-imposed boxes and acknowledge that other people’s experiences besides our own actually matter. Because our personal experiences – both positive and negative- have shaped our perspectives, what becomes challenging is realizing that not everyone has shared the same experiences which ultimately means that when differing perspectives about specific issues are discussed there is going to be a differing of opinion.

A great example of this was the lines in proverbial sand that were drawn between white women and women of colour during the Democratic presidential race between Hilalry Clinton and Barak Obama. Similarites that were thought to exist were suddenly questioned. Allegiances were tested and some permanantly broken.

Most of the time when confronted with a differing view on let’s say, gardening or how to use an appliance in a more efficient way, it’s relatively easy for us to quickly change our perspective from how we used to mow our lawn or cook on our grill. However, in relation to topics that we have a personal stake in, our perspectives, are harder to change.

For this reason, I have a very hard time tolerating the antics of Hasselbeck, to the point where I do not watch The View because when I do I am compelled to punch my TV screen when I see her smug, privileged face (whew. Got that off my chest). But in order to practice what I preach, l do acknowledge that her opinions are formed from her life experiences, so while I don’t entirely agree with her, her points should be acknowledged and respected. However, maybe it is because of the Clinton campgain, where punches where thrown at the crotch level one too many times for my liking, but my side-eye continues to be in full effect.

The main concern that many bloggers have noted in the past week, though was not what Hasselbeck said, because we have heard that "we are the world" nonsense before, but the visual connotations surrounding the discussion. Danielle over at The Black Snob looks at the impact of Hasselbeck’s crying stunt on the show:

I actually started laughing when Elisabeth Hasselbeck started crying. I think (she cried) because this isn't an issue can be dressed up with kittens and rainbows. It involves complex, deep drama that can't be worked through in 45 minutes on Dr. Phil. They want to be "done" with the issue of race and wonder why-oh-why can't we just be free, hug a tree and be all "the same" already, because she's there. She's cool! She's totally post-racial! What's your problem? But then there was the whole not realizing that saying "we're the same" and us actually being "the same" are two entirely different things. It think it's a combo of guilt and frustration because she knows she doesn't get it, but doesn't want to go down that scary path to finding out what the "real" problem is.

Crying over shit like this is a cheap way to show you care or that you take it seriously when you're really just crying because you think people are "picking" on you. It's a sort of luxury only white women of a certain caliber can afford. Mainly, non-poor, young and attractive white women. If you're an unattractive, old, broke white woman or if you're a non-white woman and you have the nerve to cry, no one gives a shit about you. No one feels sorry for you. No one tries to help you understand. Elisabeth is just using the tools given to her to demonstrate that she's a "good white person." Not one of those bad white people who teaches their children to hate us darkies. Her tears were trying to tell you that.

We have all heard the argument: “Well if black people can say it, why can’t we?” Let me say that this argument is tired. I live in a different country and even I can say that in Canada where our history of racism is, well far from tolerable but not as historically and emotionally destructive as in the States, I still think that argument is bullshit. While I understand that someone who has never been called the N-word by someone who hates can could potentially physically harm you simply because of the color of your skin, whose ancestors were not chained, shackled, raped, whipped and denied the common respect that a human being rightfully deserves, might not understand the voracity of that statement but unless you live under a rock, you should have an indication that there are certian words and actions that if acted upon or said are socially and politically divisive.

Plus, why are white folks so eager to say the N-word in public? It's like y'all chomping at the bit. Good luck with that.

Hasselbeck is a relatively young woman living in one of the most culturally and ethnically diverse cities in the world who, quite frankly, should know better than to be so naïve. Some bloggers like Tami, raise the idea that perhaps her little red riding hood act is in fact, an act:

So, about "the N word"...black folks probably use the word too much, 'tis true. But it is also true that we don't have a history of using the word to dehumanize and oppress another race. And we all know that what is said within the "family" is quite different from what is said by people outside of it. Anyone who claims otherwise is being disingenuous. No, Elisabeth, you can't use "the N word" and I think you, and others who make the "but black people say it" argument, know full well why you can't. So, why the dishonest argument?

What we do have to remember is while the N-word is divisive, there are other instances that serve as an indication that there is a certain segment of our population who Really. Do. Not. Get. It. Last week, I used the term ‘hipster racism’ but realized right after I used it that there was a way better example. First, here is a definition, courtesy of The Cruel Secretary:

I define hipster racism (I’m borrowing the phrase from Carmen Van Kerckhove) as ideas, speech, and action meant to denigrate another’s person race or ethnicity under the guise of being urbane, witty (meaning “ironic” nowadays), educated, liberal, and/or trendy. This racist and sexist balderdash that’s the New Yorker cover fits squarely into that definition.

Last week, it was reported that a young woman is suing a t-shit designer because she was assaulted over wearing one of his shirts:

A 25-year-old New York City graduate student is threatening to sue a T-Shirt designer after being assaulted for wearing one of his designs. The woman bought a $69 shirt from Apollo Braun’s Manhattan boutique that bore the words “Obama is my slave.” When she wore the shirt on Tuesday, four teenage girls accosted her - shoving her, pulling out her earphones, and spitting in her face, according to the New York edition of Metro News.

The unnamed woman is reportedly seeking solace by suing Braun - born Doron Braunshtein - for “all he’s got,” the designer claims. He, of course, is shirking any responsibility for the incident and says that the shirt reflects the views of “ordinary WASPs.”

“For a lot of people, when they see Obama, they see a slave. People think America is not ready for a black president,” the Israeli-born designer said.

Braun says he believes Obama is Muslim and that Obama also "reminds [him] of Adolf Hitler." "I can't stand Obama," says Braun, although he adds that none of his dislike for the candidate has anything to do with ethnicity.

No, of course not. So, is this, just as the New Yorker cover, satire? If Hasselbeck is still a bit dim as to why we do not live in a colorblind society, she needs to pay attention to this story. Here is an interesting comment from a Huffington Post article on the same story:

Most of the time if you can tell me where you came and come from I will tell you who you are.This is another lost soul who has been manipulated by the media and his own toxic mind. For me, he is a dangerous victim of an intense emotional, frustrated inner, wound. The perfect troubled candidate with a bitter agenda and time to focus and project his inner hate on a reachable support. As usual there is a lack of courage from most of those individuals, hidden behind the "It's not about race, I'm not a racist", but he gives us a subtle clue that proves the contrary. Now if we want to waist time questioning the roots or the psychology behind this Braun's wheels. We need to answer one simple question, taken from his statement. What makes him compare Obama to Hitler? If I do remember well, Hitler never spoke about Hope, unity, and faith in all the citizen of his country. The true problem of this modern democratic society, is the power of a 5th amendment - who by the way needs to be desperately updated- in the hands of dangerous troubled mind, spreading hates and violence in our society.

While I certainly agree that the idiot t-shirt wearer got what was coming to her, what I find more disturbing is that the new modus operandi among the younger generation seems to be that you can be racist, say you are not racist and therefore, not be racist. Hide behind feigned ignorance and after a few days, you will be absolved of your sins. On the other hand, those of us who openly speak about injustice and inequalities are branded as the ones who are racist. I can see behind this hypocrisy and madness, but does everyone?