BlogHer - Hide Your Hooters, The Haters Are Comin' - Comments

I was asked to move to a

mothercrone — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:56:06 -0500

I was asked to move to a changing room, asked to move to a bathroom, etcetera when I first had my son. And I always used the "big shirt flipover" method so nothing was ever showing thanks to my mother's expert teaching, and usually a really light blanket or something to attempt to cover the wiggly little man who was always ready for his dinner.

When did I stop just moving where I was asked? When, of all things, I was in a Wal-Mart. My son was about three months old. I had automatically gone to the bathroom to attempt to nurse, it was locked for cleaning, and so I was crunched down attempting to be out of the way under the water fountains. (This is probably the only time you'll hear me say anything good about a Wal-Mart, ever. I hate it but they've killed every other store in our ridiculous little town except the lumberyard and tractor supply. Prepared? 3...2....1.....) An older employee, probably one of the octegenarian door greeters, walked past. She stopped, walked back, and said "Honey, you can't do that there." I was almost ready to cry, figuring I'd have to leave the store and try to take a very fussy guy to a car that was probably heated up to well over a hundred degrees and started blathering about how I couldn't get into the bathroom and he was HUNGRY. She said "No, honey, I just mean you're gonna get a crick in your neck and be awfully uncomfortable. Your baby's hungry, of course he wants to eat and there's no reason you can't be comfortable too." Then she brought a chair out from the employee breakroom and set me up in a little corner next to the rugs. After that, I quit worrying about it, and just found quiet(ish) out-of-the way spots and ignored any snide comments folks made.

I just wonder how it became an issue at all, how modesty only applies to this and not to things like seeing bras through shirts or other "fashions" like that.

I was asked to move to a

mothercrone — Mon, 13 Oct 2008 20:56:01 -0500

I just wonder how it became an issue at all, how modesty only applies to this and not to things like seeing bras through shirts or other "fashions" like that.

Ruchi - I agree!

TeacherCaryn — Sun, 31 Aug 2008 01:54:52 -0500

You said it best about how its the intimate act that bothers you. Plus, there are just way too many men out there who have disgusted me with their comments about how hot breastfeeding is, including a popular radio dj whom I at one time listened to faithfully. Would the baby's father be comfortable with some pervert thinking about performing something sexual to his wife's breast? Would the breast feeder herself be comfortable with the disgusting people who think the same way? Call me a prude, but sadly I'm not making this up.

This is not the first time

biggirlblue — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:17:45 -0500

This is not the first time I've past through a debate like this. I've wandered through many "child-free" forums and many of them seem to be vehemently against breast feeding in public. Which I think is kind of funny (not ha-ha) because they all want to be respected for their choice but don't give mums the respect of actually having the choice to feed in public. I think it is a huge landmark for women and should be celebrated by all women regardless of their own personal choices.

Moe
Big Girl Blue, M.E. Wood lens, Large and Lovely

"Women are going to form a chain, a greater sisterhood than the world has ever known." ~Nellie McClung, 1916

Respectfully Considering Others

Momofsixteen — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 15:56:18 -0500

I nursed my own five children until they were nearly a year old. I did not feel comfortable doing so in public, having been reared with a bent to baring as little skin as possible. But there were a few occasions when I had no choice.

Our family traveled for the US Department of State. We lived and traveled abroad in Europe, South America, Eastern Europe and Southeast Asia. Being exposed to many other cultures did not change my comfort level, but I did acknowledge that if no one was paying any attention, I probably should go ahead and overcome my sensitivity, and just feed my baby. I'd keep a blanket just around the baby's back and head, so if necessary, I'd cover his/her head and my breast.

Now married again with three times as many children, I hope to encourage my daughters and future daughters-in-law to feel free to nurse their children wherever they may happen to be, because not all travel and eating in restaurants is optional. Nor can feeding time be avoided in many cases. I hope they understand that they can do so in a manner that will not flaunt their right, but rather will respect the comfort level of those around them.

Some malls and public places now have family bathrooms for parents (like me) who have a bunch of kids to tend to all at once. I find these places quite clean and comfortable to sit and rest in. I do like privacy when I nurse. It is a very intimate act, and nursing my child in front of someone is like undressing down to underwear, which I would not do just anywhere nor in front of just anyone.

After all, living in society still implies being polite to all, regardless of their opinion. I don't mind putting my rights aside to keep from offending others.

Deb Momofsixteen

it's probably not about breastfeeding after all

madeintaiwan — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 23:07:58 -0500

I think these differences may be more about lifestyle choices than about whether or not to feed your child. Some people can't get past seeing a female nipple while others could care less, some people are strict on schedules while others live a laissez-faire way of being, some want silence in fancy restaurants and others enjoy a boisterous life... what to do, what to do... potato, potahto. Ultimately, it's our right to nurse our children in public so like it or not, that's the way it is. And I think it's important for me to remember context - I'm lucky to have these discussions, I'm lucky my baby is healthy, has medical attention if need be, I'm lucky I can afford tylenol and don't have to fear that my baby will die of fever, I'm lucky my baby won't be one of 40,000 children who die each day from hunger. In that context, I really don't care if people think it's appropriate to nurse in public or not - healthy babies, that's the focus always, and everything else is secondary.

http://watermelonmama.wordpress.com/

This is another view on the whole debacle...

Crunchy Carpets — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:20:09 -0500

http://www.canada.com/vancouvercourier/news/opinion/story.html?id=ddbbc3...

Lactating activists milked H&MMark Hasiuk,
Vancouver CourierPublished: Friday, August 15, 2008

On
Aug. 7, more than 50 lactating women descended on the Granville Street
H&M clothing store to protest the treatment of Manuela Valle, who
two days earlier was banished by store staff to a change room to
breastfeed her two-month-old daughter.

The protest was dubbed a
"nurse-in," a spastic eruption of X-chromosomes in a clothing store
known for two-for-one T-shirts and Madonna-inspired design. Lactating
protestors, many with suckling baby in hand, held placards that read
"Babies for Breastfeeding" and "Get a room? Human rights mockery." The
controversy made national headlines and served as a rallying cry for
breastfeeders everywhere, who feel slighted by society's paternal
squeamishness.

In an effort to stop the bleeding, H&M
released a statement. The company congratulated breastfeeders for their
selfless perpetuation of the human race and opened its doors to
lactating women worldwide.

Email to a friend Printer friendlyFont:

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"We
apologize. And it seems to be a miscommunication and a
misunderstanding. Our policy is to allow breastfeeding nursing mothers
to breastfeed or express milk freely in our stores," said H&M's
embattled corporate spokesperson Laura Shankland.

Following her
statement, Shankland spray-painted a pink, inverted female sign on her
office wall, burned her bra and launched into an impromptu rendition of
Ani DiFranco's "Not a Pretty Girl."

Well, not really. But she released the statement.

H&M
staff will be retrained to reasonably accommodate the company's
consumer base. The storm has subsided, and it's back to business as
usual. But only because the company caved quicker than an IKEA baby
crib.

Despite its humourous overtones, the controversy raised
serious questions about the rights of private businesses versus the
whims of retail consumers.

Of course, when H&M staff asked
Manuela Valle to take her baby (and her breast) to the change room,
they did nothing wrong. As a private business, H&M reserves the
right to handle its customers within the confines of Canadian law.
That's Capitalism 101.

According to Section 8 of the B.C. Human
Rights Code, a person must not be denied any accommodation, service or
facility customarily available to the public because of race, colour,
ancestry, place of origin, religion, marital status, family status,
physical or mental disability, sex or sexual orientation. Nothing in
there about breastfeeding. Valle apparently knows this, which is
probably why she threatened to contact the B.C. Human Rights
Commission, a quasi-judicial organization that specializes in
groundless cases based on political ideology.

H&M's error lay
not in the realm of legality, but rather in the court of public
opinion. Valle tapped a populist sentiment amongst her lactating
sisters that threatened H&M's bottom line. Capitulating made good
business sense.

But what about H&M's duty to its other
customers? The staunchly religious, whose particular sect forbids
public nudity. The squeamish or breastophobic, who prefer a definitive
line between off-the-rack retailer and nursery. What about their
expectations of comfort?

H&M also set a dangerous precedent
and exposed itself to future aggrieved groups of all stripes and
persuasions that may choose H&M outlets to practice their own brand
of necessity. Imagine a group of Salafi Muslims kneeling before Allah
in H&M's men's clothing section. Or a woebegone narcoleptic who
seeks shelter at H&M for his afternoon nap.

No matter what
future controversies await H&M, nothing will match the brute force
exerted by legions of lactating women. Valle and her band of
breastfeeders demonstrated the awesome power of maternal instinct while
exhibiting a zeal rarely seen during public protests. The
women--powered by hormonal intuition as old as life itself--seemed
uninhibited by intellect or social mores, and unswayed by cultural
inventions such as business sovereignty and consumer choice. Their
impulse to protest wasn't medieval, it was prehistoric.

Indeed, the Great H&M "Nurse-in" of 2008 reestablished two age-old axioms:

1) The desire of a private business to remain autonomous may sometimes clash with its viability in the marketplace.

2) Don't mess with lactating women. (Although most guys already knew that.)

mhasiuk@hotmail.com

Allen Garr is on vacation."

Again..I think there is a middle ground..the squeamish need to adjust or just not look and mom's need appropriate places to feed their babies...no shame..but plunking down in the middle of a store or whatever is NOT appropriate ..it is a private place of business...she could have followed her husband to the fitting rooms where he was trying on stuff...no?

But sitting in the mall to feed..sure...in the food fare...sure....

Feeding babies is a right..but again...the guy SORT of has a point

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

And finally . . .

Wyliekat — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:49:23 -0500

A round of applause for everyone who is making wine from potential flames. *THIS* is how community thrives!

I think the nicest thing

Wyliekat — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:47:28 -0500

I think the nicest thing anyone ever did for me when I was a public breastfeeder was actually make eye contact with me. Or maybe even smile.

This is as opposed to the way everyone else treated me - their eyes slid around me as though I wasn't even there. Better than some of the possible reactions, I suppose. But someone smiling? Saying "Hey, I see you?" in that absent way that strangers do?

I actually appreciated that.

Now, when I see a breastfeeding woman, I smile at her, to give her the courtesy of recognizing her place in society.

Middle ground is for losers.

Wyliekat — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:42:33 -0500

Not going to flame you, but I am going to (respectfully) disagree. Not because I would personally choose to breastfeed in a high-end restaurant. Frankly, if I'm going out fancy, it's because I've got a kid-free night and I want to be tarted up to the nth degree.

However, what if it's a family celebration? What if it's ma and pa's sixtieth anniversary and the whole family is going to a fancy restaurant to celebrate? Does the breastfeeding mama stay home, because her child can't order steak tartare as yet?

Breastfeeding shouldn't limit your dining choices, or your life choices, really. If someone needs to/wants to be in a high-end restaurant and breastfeed their child, well - that's life. I've watched more than one elderly drooler spit up half remains of their dinner on their fine suits and nobody's asked them to leave, you know?

I dislike how contentious this issue is. I dislike that there is anything at all to debate. I'm sad to see that there's an angry left that accompanies the angry right.

Evidently, middle ground is for losers.

I'll stand by your side and

ByJane — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:13:01 -0500

I'll stand by your side and take some of the hits, GeekMommy, since the tomatoes have already been hitting me and I SO AGREE WITH YOU.

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com

Oh I'm about to post a totally unpopular comment...

GeekMommy — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:01:20 -0500

There are actually two separate issues here and I think that they're incorrectly being merged into one.

a) Is it a mother's and baby's right to breastfeed anywhere they need to? Absolutely.

b) Should a baby of that age be in a fancy restaurant whether breast feeding, bottle feeding, or not needing feeding at all? in my book? Absolutely NOT.

I live by my words - but I know others don't.

We never took our daughter out to restaurants of a certain caliber for dinner when she was that age. We *gasp* hired a babysitter or had my MIL baby sit or a close friend if we were going out to someplace where the price was high and it was clearly not a 'family friendly environment.'

So it was more than a little annoying when I was paying someone else to ensure that my husband and I and sometimes others could have a nice, relaxing, baby-screaming-free dinner to have someone else at the next table believing that it was fine for the rest of the restaurant to have to put up with her screaming infant because she wasn't going to either stay home with her child or have someone else take care of it when the venue wasn't appropriate.

Do I care if a woman is breast feeding in Denny's or Sweet Tomatoes or any other middle-of-the-road establishment? Nope. Do I care if she is at 10 pm at night in a $50 per entree restaurant? Well it's not the breast feeding - it's the "Why the hell isn't your child at home in bed asleep at 10pm??" that gets me riled up.

I know that this isn't how everyone functions. My own family and I have gone rounds on it, because my brother's wife saw no reason not to bring her daughter everywhere and anywhere with them at any time of day or night. They had issues when I refused to bring my daughter out to 'nice' restaurants past her bedtime when she was still an infant... they still don't get why I won't do it now that she's 5 and can behave like a lady in restaurants. Because it's PAST HER FREAKING BEDTIME.

Sometimes, it's not about breastfeeding, it's about wondering why I'm paying for my sitter and my dinner only to have to deal with a Mom who is self-absorbed enough to think that her baby and everyone else around her should accomodate her in order for her to be there too.

Okay - putting on my flame-retardant suit. Sigh.

Lucretia (aka GeekMommy)

Raising a child in a digital world, still a digital girl

I'm the one that hasn't fully embraced breastfeeding...

temptingmama — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 12:44:40 -0500

The provided by Catherine to my article about my aversion to feeding in public was broken, but that is me. The lady that feeds her newborn on the floor of a public washroom.

I only wish I had the comfort level that Catherine has to simply stop and feed her child where she is. I love that she's confident and comfortable enough to face the glares - the unspoken suggestive glares - even feed her child in front of a thousand women in the middle of a BlogHer pannel. I truly look up to her, and women like her - that have that comfort level.

I would do anything to break myself of the 'embarrassment' of nursing in public. Sitting on the floor of a public washroom is not my idea of a beautiful emotionally bonding moment with my son, but it's what I have to do to be comfortable with it. I won't bottlefeed simply to avoid washroom floors.

Reading some of the comments over at chow made me tear up. I shouldn't have even gone there because that's exactly the reason that I don't do it in public. Though I do have a hooter hider, who the hell wants to be draped in that and sweating beneath it in mid-August?

I can be rather tough skinned at times, but not when it comes to something I am so self concious about in the first place. If someone were to approach me and say something I would probably burst into tears on the spot.

I feel like those comments are the thoughts of the people around me
making unbearable to sit at a table, on a bench and NOT worry about
what other people are thinking.

sam {temptingmama}

http://temporarilyme.com

Denise's word is good enough

ByJane — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 20:03:31 -0500

Denise's word is good enough for me. I'm actually closer up here than if/when I move. I'm in Elk Grove. and Santa Cruz is 2-1/2 hours from me. Name your date and time!

By Jane

http://byjane.blogspot.com

http://midlifebloggers.com

Come on over to the Cruz, By Jane!

Grace Davis — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:03:30 -0500

We always have a fine vintage on hand and flowin'. And, we can watch the tomatoes grow:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/graced/2733809155/

We live in Northern California, Santa Cruz. Come on down, woman! I have good references (see Ms. Tanton's above!) who will attest to the fact that I share my toys and generally play well with others.

Cheers again!

Grace

Hide Your Hooters, The Haters Are Comin'

Her Bad Mother — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 15:31:29 -0500

Here's what breaks my heart about ongoing debates about the ethics of breastfeeding in public: that there IS any debate. Shouldn't this subject be considered settled? Wasn't that the whole point of World Breastfeeding Week last week? To celebrate breastfeeding, and our will and ability to do it whenever, wherever? Was nothing learned from the Facebook/Bill Mayer debacles of last fall? A mother's right to breastfeed - and, more than this, her child's right to be nourished - trumps anybody else's right to not have their particular body-issue buttons pushed. That's totally obvious, right?

Apparently not. If you're a reader of the Table Manners column over at Chow.com, you will have seen that, despite that column's author's support, in a recent article, of breastfeeding in restaurants, a whooooole lot of restaurant-going commenters HATE the very idea of women breastfeeding in restaurants.

An example:

Stay home and feed your child in the privacy of your own home. Nobody wants to witness the intimacy of you bonding with your child in order to feed it. And nobody wants to have dinner in adult settings like restaurants when there are babies there. You decided to have a child, not everyone who went to dinner at the restaurant. And nobody thinks it is cute to see your hooter in your kids mouth. Stay home and cook for yourself and your family until the child can order for itself and have a glass of wine.

Whoa. Misogyny much?

Yummy Mummy writes in a response at her blog, "New York state law says you have to deal with my breast in my kids mouth, dude.
Thems the breaks. Please stop calling them "hooters". This isn't a bar." Quite right. As does the law in many states and most of the Canadian provinces. But apparently the rights of mothers and children to do best by their health are meaningless in the face of some people's horror of the breast - at least, that is, the breast that is not spilling out of a Hooters tank top. Apparently, extreme cleavage is okay for dining establishments, but a boob concealed by a baby's head is not. According to some commenters at Chow.com, this is because breastmilk smells, and babies make noises while eating, and it's just all gross. You know, like urinating in public.

Here's the thing: boobaphobes can debate and debate and debate about whether it's okay for women to nurse in restaurants or clothing stores or airplanes or libraries or ANYWHERE in public until they're blue in the face, and it still won't change the fact that breastfeeding is a wonderful, life-sustaining thing that can and should and must be done wherever and whenever necessary. (Note: this is not to suggest that mothers who bottle-feed are not wonderful. They are. And they also face criticism when feeding their children in public, which is another subject entirely, one that has to do with society's problem with public mothering.) What remains is this: in characterizing breastfeeding as some disgusting, stomach-turning, shameful thing, they are shaming mothers, and in shaming mothers, they are hurting mothers - and hurting mothers when they are at their most vulnerable, when they are most susceptible to damage. New mothers - regardless of whether it's the first or fifth time new - struggle mentally and physically to do this hard, hard job, and adding to their emotional burden with a big stinking pile of shame-turds is hateful in the extreme.

Every time that another person cringes at a breastfeeding mother, or makes a comment comparing it to urinating in public, it makes it that much harder for a mother to fully embrace breastfeeding, to really feel comfortable with it, to escape the shame that she feels about her ravaged body and her ravaged psyche and her struggle to just cope.

That anyone in the world thinks that that's okay is the real shame.