BlogHer - Second -- make that third -- thoughts about Sarah Palin (and news of her pregnant daughter) - Comments

I Miss The Politics

MsMiller — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:23:34 -0500

Right on. I don't know how this became such a "women's issue". This needs to be about the politics and the proposed policies of the candidates, and "values" are clouding the issues. Anyone's "values" can be challenged under the right spin (but you are right to call McCain out on his). Do I have much respect for Sarah Palin as a politician? No. Nor would I if she were Samuel Palin. I'm not going to protect or rah-rah a candidate just because we share reproductive anatomy. Is McCain a strong candidate? In my opinion, no. He's not the same man he was 8 years ago. And I don't see that change as "improvement". He gets to use the POW shield just like many want Palin to use the "I'm a Woman" shield. With all due respect to both of their histories, they each leave a lot to be desired as far as I'm concerned. And what did Lieberman call Obama? Untested? Well, what do you call Palin? Or McCain for that matter? Or even Lieberman himself? Pots are calling kettles out all over the place. I'm tired of it already and it's only Tuesday. We have a long way to go to November. I'm satisfied with the ticket I've chosen. I'm not looking for perfection, just a chance to turn this around and hope for something better for all of us. It's time to look beyond party and gender lines and seek out what we would want for our nation's future. Because our present has a lot to be desired.

Cheers,

Sandra

Read more at http://ruawake.com/ or follow me at http://twitter.com/msmiller

Family Values?

Mom to Gio — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:04:16 -0500

Well, ok how about McCain's family values? Isn't he divorced? Is he fair game because he's running for president?

He divorced his 1st wife, Carol, after she remained loyal here in the US, raising their 3 kids while he was POW. During that time, she was in a devastating car accident, required 23 surgeries and became disfigured. Needless to say, they were both different after the war, and yet, she planned to spend the rest of her life with him. Yet, McCain had other plans, he divorced Carol and after 1 month married Cindy. What does that say about him?

His first wife Carol said, "He didn't want to be 40 anymore, he wanted to be 25."

Pretty loyal guy, huh?

Whoa...

nelle2nelle — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:39:32 -0500

Ellen Goodman, probably my all time favourite columnist, has lamented on more than one occasion we tend to spend so much time questioning each other's choices, we forget to move onward towards real change (or something to that effect.)

There is surely diverse political outlook on BlogHer, and that's a good thing. There are Palin/McCain supporters, there are Palin/McCain detractors. Flip that to Obama/Biden... same thing.

What will leave me dismayed quicker than a dirty look from Denise is us turning on each other over how we parent, and whether we are sahp, wooh parents, or some combination that works for us.

It would be laughable for me to question her judgement, for all the reasons that make up my life. I'm pretty sure the reasons shift from person to person, but I've a hunch none of us is truly of a place where we can claim to be parenting goddesses by proclamation. Absent such exhalted status, I doubt we can start dissing her for rtw within a few days.

Hell, I had a case maybe 3 weeks ago now where someone had a child on Thursday and declared herself ready to work on Monday. Yeah, I get to judge her - on whether she is available for work or not, but not on her life choices. I paid her by the way.

nelle

llhaesa

Obama responds to reporters about the Bristol Palin story

Giggle On — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:36:24 -0500

Reposted from a blog entry by Mitegirl on another thread.

I feel the need to post this statement in this thread.

Kudos to Obama for being a stand-up guy on this issue.

In his media avail, Obama just responded to reporters' questions about the Bristol Palin story. Noting that his mother had him when she was 18 years old, Obama said families are "off limits" in campaigns. He was very impassioned.

"I've heard some of the news. I've said before
I think families are off limits, children limits. It has no relevance,"Obama said. "I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. My mom had me when she was 18. And how families deal with issues of children shouldn't be part of our politics.

Regarding to the accusation from the McCain camp that rumors of Bristol Palin were being spread by liberal
bloggers, some with connections to the Obama campaign, the Illinois senator replied: "I am offended by that statement. There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us. I hope I'm as clear as we can be.
We don't go after people's families. Our people were not involved in any way. And if I thought anyone in my campaign was, they'd be fired."

Palin needs to fix her own house, not the White House.

Diane MacEachern — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 17:26:58 -0500

Diane MacEachern www.biggreenpurse.com Diane@biggreenpurse.com

I am appalled at the way the McCain campaign is manipulating women to advance Sarah Palin. We're talking about picking a president and vice president of the U.S. The best PEOPLE should be running for that office, not the best MEN or the best WOMEN. As much as I would love to see a woman, it turns out that gender is not the most important factor when it comes to passing laws that make a difference in our lives. Party is. So look at Palin: she's not a leader. She's an anti-environmental, pro-oil company advocate who has shown questionnable judgement in her office. And honestly, I question her judgement as a mother as well. I don't understand how a mother of a Down's Syndrome baby goes back to work three days after delivery. And I'm even more put off by a mother who willingly subjects her unmarried, unemployed pregnant teenage child to the international spotlight to further her own career. Palin needs to fix her own house, not the White House.

Sincerity Vote and Compassion Vote

rebellious thinker — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:47:53 -0500

I don't have a numerical calculator to determine how much time a parent needs to be with the kids to determine whether or not s/he is a good parent. I do know that my ex-husband was home just about every night and he was a lousy parent and rarely said I love you to his daughters, and certainly not in public. And I haven't seen anything touching on compassion, or even a look of concern, from McCain--real or pretend. And that, for me, is important. Yes, touching a woman--this woman's-- compassion is important.

www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com

Parenting and Politics

MsMiller — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:45:40 -0500

Palin's parenting isn't being brought into question because she is a woman, it's because she is viewed as a right-wing Christian poster child who now has to address a less than perfect portrait. And Palin had to know that when she accepted the nomination. A man and his family would be under the same scrutiny. Imagine if Obama's daughers were older and this happened to one of them.

This is a new time where the masses can respond immediately to news, and they don't always think before they type. or edit before posting. Anyone going into politics has to understand that now. They and their families better have thick skin, and clean records. The internet lets us clearly see the lack of compassion out there. However, as I mentioned earlier, it's the way we are finding out about the pregnancy that is causing so much of the flack. It should have been addressed in her nomination speech. Bet it would have come and gone. Now, this is going to stick to her like gum in her hair.

Does anyone think that Obama has had an easier go of it as a man of color with a funny name in this election? Do we recall the buttons asking if we can still call it the White House if he won? This hasn't been a pretty election on any side. And it's bound to get uglier. I hope we can stop making it so personal and start looking at the politics. The press is going to spin this a million different ways. I want to know why she announced the pregnancy today. She may not be a bad parent, but she sure is a politician. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Read more at http://ruawake.com/ or follow me at http://twitter.com/msmiller

Is parenting a sign of good leadership?

elanas — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 16:00:41 -0500

See, now this is interesting. Do we want to say that how a person is as a parent is something of a credential in choosing leadership?

I could definitely go for that, and I think that would be a great feminist contribution to politics. Making our leaders live up to values they espouse, character, caring, relationships, honesty, kinship, interpersonal responsibility.... I would actually like to live in a country where leaders are measured not only by how they go to war but by how they treat the people around them.

However, at the moment, such a criteria is not being used, except for on women. So Obama makes his gesture and every goes "awwww", but Palin is hacked to death as a bad parent because her daughter is pregnant. The disparity is alarming.

If such a criteria were gender-neutral, and sincere, it would have value. I'm not sure Obama's is either. He was on the road how many nights last year? Are we really asking how good of a father he has been?

elana

What's a good value?

rebellious thinker — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:45:17 -0500

I haven't read too much of the vitriol; in fact, Matt Lauer was thinking how this could possibly be a thing for the Republicans. I don't know, if this is necessarily anti-woman. I'm thinking of all those good values homosexuals and philanderers who eventually need to leave office from hypocrisy overload.

And regarding parenting, I was moved that Obama called out to his daughters that he loves them and they called out to him that they love him, and you could see that. I wish someone would have mentioned that. I have no idea about McCain and his relationship with his kids, and I would really like to know that. As it is, I see his wife usually a few paces behind him. Maybe if us woman voters were paid attention to some more, we would get those glimpses into the people.

Laura,. www.rebelliousthoughtsofawoman.com

Questionable Timing

MsMiller — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:45:10 -0500

Palin was going to bring controversy, so we shouldn't be surprised (nor should she), that she's getting so much media attention. And, some of this, she has brought on herself. She could've gotten in front of this and not waited to "hide" it under Gustav, that's all I'm saying. It comes off as shady. Five months pregnant? Could've mentioned that last week, no?

Personally, I don't see her nomination as any sort of female victory. It was political pandering, not following in Hillary's footsteps. I wish it were that. I hope she can rise to the occasion but, so far, not so good. I'm not even sure she'll to make it to November. There's already TrooperGate and BabyGate and now GrammyGate. I sense a withdrawal for "family reasons" in the near future.

I'm not so bothered about her daughter being pregnant. It's sad that it has to happen on the world's stage. I'm more bothered that her daughter wasn't practicing safer sex. Where is that in the conversation? Oh, I forgot. We don't teach that in schools anymore. Silly me. I still thought HIV and STDs were issues. I don't want a 17 year-old being dragged through the mud or thrust into the spotlight and used in an election. She needs to be left alone. I just hope that if there are any more skeletons in the Palin pantry, they will be a little more forthcoming. Like maybe tonight. Otherwise, she is going to make it harder, not easier, for a female to make it through another election.

Read more at http://ruawake.com/ or follow me at http://twitter.com/msmiller

Sticking to the issues

elanas — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:31:15 -0500

Dear Laura

I agree with you that the conservative agenda is bad for women. I also agree that there is a certain irony, perhaps, to the conservative candidate having an unwed pregnant mother. That is all true. But none of that accounts for the vitriolic assault on her person, on her womanhood, on her motherhood, on everything. Also, the lack of proportion is just classic backlash, the way Susan Faludi described it over a decade ago. If the conversation would stick to the issues, that would be fine. But just as with Hillary, the attacks were about her pantsuits, her cleavage, and whether she "whines like my first wife", here too there is an underlying misogyny which is very, very troubling.

Elana

Valuing Diverse Family Values

rebellious thinker — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:15:02 -0500

The voices that question her are because she represents, at least for me, a group of people who are trying to push their family values on the rest of us. I don't know if you realize this, but this is the group that is cutting funding for safe sex education, and refuse to even discuss condoms, and only want to educate all of our teens by saying "say no to sex." Well, we saw how that went with drugs. It's the high mountain on which she and her supporters stand on that rankles. It is not her devotion to her family and her daughter, to whom I only wish happiness.

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com

Grrrrrrr...

nelle2nelle — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:08:18 -0500

Those reactions are *almost* enough for me to vote for her.

We work. We parent. We grandparent. We aren't flipping perfect. Our kids aren't perfect. Politicians aren't perfect. Those opining are not perfect, though they apparently seem to forget that.

And it seems we are setting a bar for women in office that no male politician has ever had to attempt to clear.

Misogyny does not flow from right to left. It flows in all directions, so this crap is as apt to start coming from her on the left opponents as anyone on the right.

It is annoying. Ridiculous. She's a mom. Yay! I celebrate this. She has a life outside her home. I celebrate this. (Hell, I'd celebrate if she was a sahp as well - been there, but she isn't.) She is about to become a grandmom...

and that is an issue precisely why? Now if she disowns her daughter and casts her to the wind, well... I'd have have a few words for her. But I doubt that will be the case.

I hope people drop the need to form judgement on her, on her daughter, on her family based on these personal things. She has a political record, a political philosophy, and an outlook for the future - that is where we should focus our attention.

nelle

llhaesa

Hypocrisy Bandwagon

rebellious thinker — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:48:36 -0500

As evidenced by the family values crowd support of her daughter's decision to keep her baby, they will continue to support Palin because, apparently, being pro-gun, pro death penalty, anti-environment, and anti-choice is evidence of compassion. I truly wish they would see the hypocrisy of that "world view."

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com

I give her respect, but I frankly don't know how she can do it..

economistmom — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:21:15 -0500

As a mom of "only" four kids who left my Capitol Hill job for a lower-paying but more flexible job to bring more balance to my life, I just don't know how Sarah Palin can do all that. (See my post on my EconomistMom blog, as well as my post on Working Mother's "momblog.") It's not that I don't think women can do it, but remember, her husband works full time, too. (If my husband was a stay-at-home dad, I wouldn't have had to leave my Capitol Hill job.)

That's an awful lot on Sarah Palin's "home plate" for her to be ready to be VP--let alone be ready to step into the presidency at a moment's notice. It implies she's choosing to make certain tradeoffs that I'm not sure all her socially-conservative admirers would agree with. ...Or else it means she's superhuman.

EconomistMom (Diane)

Second -- make that third -- thoughts about Sarah Palin (and news of her pregnant daughter)

elanas — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 13:41:41 -0500

My first reaction was of course, yay, someone is finally putting a
woman on the ticket. My second reaction was, hang on a minute, she is
conservative, pro-life, anti-environment, and maybe not so experienced,
although maybe I should support her anyway (see yesterday's post). Now
that Sarah Palin, after all of four days in the public eye, has dropped
this bombshell that her seventeen year old unwed daughter is having a
baby, I'm having a third reaction. And this one, folks, is not about
Palin but about the media.

If we thought they were hard on Hillary, my
God, get a load of the tomatoes flying now.

Within an hour of Palins' announcement about her daughter, the New York Times had
200 reactions to this news. Maybe two comments -- maybe -- actually
offered words of encouragement and support to Palin. Many were critical
of a conservative hypocrisy and the failure of education for
abstinence. But there were also many comments -- I couldn't tell if
they were from liberals or conservatives -- criticizing or even mocking
Palin as a mother.

How can a woman be both a mother and grandmother in office? asked a few.
She can't even control her own daughter! shouted another few.
Can't have a woman in office if she has too many children, was one particularly obnoxious comment.
What kind of VP will she be if she is such a terrible mother? came the refrain.

And so, here it comes again. The anti-woman backlash is just flying here.
How many male candidates have been scrutinized for their parenting, or
for their children's choices, or for how many children they have?
Answer -- none.

And how much has Palin been through over the past four days,
compared to Biden? Biden got a nod and a giggle, and was let be. But
Palin has been hacked to death, and she's just getting started. The
Huffington Post, which was notoriously anti-Hillary in some of the most
sexist ways, has run one attack after another, barely leaving readers
with a moment to breathe.

So now I'm thinking, how much of the negative reaction to Palin is
real, and how much is more of the same old sexism packaged as
"vetting"?

Let's give Palin a break, shall we? She is still Governor of Alaska,
she has still managed to achieve quite a lot while raising five kids,
and she is obviously smart and articulate.

And for the record, I think the way she is handling her daughter's
pregnancy is remarkable. She is supportive, kind, and loving, and has
committed herself to helping her daughter without putting her own life
on hold, going into hiding, or going into mourning. Personally, I give
her a lot of credit. And I sincerely hope that her party stands behind
her in this as well.

And that someone stands up to the male-chauvinist media. Give the Governor a little respect, please.