BlogHer - Bristol's blessing and political pitfalls - Comments

Reminder

Sugar Mama — Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:24:49 -0500

As much as I'm enjoying this overflow of love for Mr. Obama and critique of Ms. Palin, I believe you have the argument wrong as does most of the media. The only one to keep reinforcing the correct argument is Hillary, the one that lost out on the opportunity to run for president, not because of Obama's better experience level, but because of sexism. Anyway, Mrs. Clinton has it right...

The argument about experience should be Obama against McCain.

McCain is the one running for president. How anyone continues to compare the qualifications of Governor Palin against Senator Obama is beyond comprehension. When have any of us seen this? It's ridiculous. And if Obama's experience level was "off the table" before, why is Palin's experience back on? She's running for VP while he's running for President. Keep your One Heartbeat Away argument out for just a second and think about that. Why is it okay for Obama to have "community" experience when running for president, but Palin's Governorship is not enough when being called on as a running mate to a gentleman with an extensive resume in politics. Like him or not, his is who you need to compare Obama's experience level against.

Choice?

evilslutopia — Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:36:03 -0500

They will appreciate the Palin family's willingness to make the choice
for life, and Bristol's ability to take responsibility for her actions.

Of course, Sarah Palin doesn't believe that "the choice for life" should exist in the first place. She believes that no woman should ever have a choice unless their life is at risk. It's really interesting to see the language of choice used in the statements from the Palin and McCain camps, considering that at all other times they say that they don't believe in the concept of choice.

And it's always frustrating to see the phrase "taking responsibility" only applied to women who choose to have their babies. Many of us believe that choosing abortion is taking responsibility also.

The Evil Slut Clique
Evilslutopia

I think I need to unplug the internet......I am an addict.

L16 — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 17:26:46 -0500

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/09/john-mccains-crude-chelsea-clinton-joke/

Bristol should never be attacked. It is irrelevent. Sadly McCain really can't be the one to ask for people not to attack the kids of candidates given his comments on Chelsea Clinton's looks (above link). McCain just gives me the heebie jeebies, as a woman. He's kind of a reminder of everything that makes little girls grow up to be man haters. Ewww John McCain.

This 2nd vid is just a really interesting vid on the kind of comments that still get said about women. I have no idea what any of the people in the video's political preference is. I think it's just that, at present, when you get into a heated argument with someone it is still pretty acceptable to attack someone viciously for being a woman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-IrhRSwF9U&eurl=http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2008/05/27/sexism_sells/

Hypocrisy still going strong

rebellious thinker — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:50:32 -0500

Susan, I have been thinking about that very same thing about Chelsea Clinton. My goodness, what they would have said about Bill, Hillary--and Chelsea--is unimaginable. There would have been no protecting the child in the newspapers. Suddenly we have a poster child for underage sex, and responsibility. The issue here is the double standard that they always manage to come up with, and not Palin's parenting skills.

Laura. www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com

Republican or Independant...

Kathleen Marie — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 14:31:16 -0500

As an Independant who has yet to decide who she wants to vote for I thought the Lewinksky scandal a bit tacky to say the least.

At the same time I think digging into any family dirt is tacky. With Bristol, the choice was hers and hers alone to have sex at such a young age - unprotected sex at that although two of my kids are solid proof not all contraception works as it should. Her mother didn't make that choice, Bristol did.

I have personally been through this type of scenero with one of my own children and I respect Palin and her family for supporting her daughter's decision to keep the baby and marry the father. As a parent I also know that even the best of parents have kids who make wrong choices... If you never made a wrong decision, where's your halo?

As for the other charge against Palin - abusing her office - that remains to be seen but personally I like the fact that she is gutsy and not afraid to fight for what she believes in. I do hope that she is telling the truth.

As a country I think we all agree we would like a leader who is morally upright and stable, always makes the right choices, can overcome any type of pressure, etc.

But then we would need to vote in a saint and I'm afraid not many of them are around these days and if you do meet one, he or she is probably locked up in a convent somewhere or feeding the homeless in India.

Oh, and I do read Soujourners regularly, one of my favorite magazines and like the magazine I am very ticked off at Condi Rice as I am very pro Israel.... Not sure where Palin stands on that issue at this point.

JUST MY THOUGHTS - new blog post at http://theopenwindow1.blogspot.com/

AHHHHH! This is so

lilmommythatcould — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 13:05:39 -0500

AHHHHH! This is so frustrating!!! Each side is going to spin this the way they want to- what best suits their side! What once crucified Hiliary is now the reason to vote for McCain Palin. Don't vote because she is a woman- Vote because she is a mom and woman! It is like a cespool of hypocrisy! I am so sure if, for instance, Chelsea Clinton were to be in Bristol's place the right side would be all over Hillary like stink on shit!

~Susan

http://lilmomthatcould.com/

And she cut property taxes

L16 — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 12:58:23 -0500

And she cut property taxes which attracted things like WalMart to Wasilla but also increased sales taxes so that in the end, so she is not a reformer on cutting tax.

Also, Alaska is a rich state. While still challenging, it is easier to get a good approval rating when your constituents are awash in money.

And most importantly, over 18 million Americans voted to put Obama on the ticket. His qualifications have been deemed acceptable by that group. He beat out Hillary Clinton who, impressive on her own, is married to the president who brought America through an impressive economic expansion. In other words, he beat the Clintons, democratic Royalty.

Obama has proven his ability to debate the best, and yet still bring decision makers (voters) to his way of thinking. Americans would be lucky to have such a skilled, educated in the law, commander in chief.

Granted, I have never seen Palin debate, or seen her have a chance to unite people. She has a very short amount of time to demonstrate this skill.

I think the Republicans themselves have questions about Palin. I have yet to see anyone say she was the 'best' candidate available for the job. Tucker Bounds, a republican spokesman for McCain, who is normally a very difficult interview because of his oratory skills was made to look like a rookie by Campbell Brown. Her question? Name me one decision that Palin made as commander in chief of Alaskan National Guard. Start watching around 5:10. The "executive experience" argument is sounding a little hollow. And in the last 15 seconds of the tape Tucker pretty much dismisses the notion that the bottom of the ticket is important. Hmm.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/09/01/brown.tucker.bounds.interview.cnn

Okay, so not painting all

miteegirl — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:57:16 -0500

Okay, so not painting all liberal women with the same broad brush, but upset at some. That's fair.

I would imagine that it could also have been said that we shouldn't have pursued Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky then. Because his performance as a husband really didn't apply to his role as President and didn't warrant a Republican-controlled Congress to ask him about Lewinsky.

I would agree to ending that type of dirt-digging. Would Republican women agree?

Huh?

Jill Miller Zimon — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:55:00 -0500

You wrote, "we should all just be so excited that a woman has made it to a Veep nomination for the first time in twenty some years"

Why? That completely refutes the arguments about looking at the positions and accomplishments of the candidates in order to decide.

As I've already written on BlogHer, I'm thrilled for my conservative friends who will support Gov. Palin and in turn McCain because of Palin - that they have someone to consider.

But all of us be excited just that there's a woman?

I don't think so - even as much as I could barely look at the GOP debates because of how older white male it was.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

Her point, miteegirl

Denise — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:47:25 -0500

Is probably based on an awful lot of comments and discussions all over the internet about Palin's ability to be VP because of her gender, her beliefs about reproductive rights, (she might get pregnant in office!) and her parenting skills.

If you haven't seen those comments, blog posts or tweets or had those discussions with people - count yourself lucky. I've had them, I understand her point.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Well, I AM voting Democratic

miteegirl — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:36:15 -0500

Well, I AM voting Democratic and I don't think anyone has been more vocal on this site in the last 24 hours than I have in saying the Palin's motherhood is a non-issue.

So, I don't really understand your point here.

If she were a democrat

Sugar Mama — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:30:41 -0500

I would love to hear all these writers come to Ms. Palin's aid. I wonder what the responses would be if she were a democrat. What would the argument be for her? For her daughter? I'm sure it would be sprinkled with a lot of I Am Woman and a smattering of It's None Of Our Business followed by a bunch of Let's Stick To The Issues. The way these two women are being judged by other women makes me realize that unless a woman fits a particular description, she is not worthy of our support. I'm sure there will be arguments against my statement, but search your heart. What is it that's really upsetting you? That Palin's daughter is pregnant? That Palin is a working mom? That she's intelligent and beautiful? That she just might possibly have what it takes? I don't understand all of these arguments about the choices in her own family life. If she were a democrat, her rise to success would be hailed not jeered. But here we are, dissecting her ever move when we should all just be so excited that a woman has made it to a Veep nomination for the first time in twenty some years. How sad that we all still have so far to go...

((And to the woman that thinks that privileged people have it any differently as young mothers, you are greatly uninformed. I suggest you go meet some of those youg ladies. Being afraid of too much responsibility at that age is not bound by any socioeconomic levels.))

As Kathleen Marie points

miteegirl — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:22:02 -0500

As Kathleen Marie points out, please do not put Christians in a box.

I am an Evangelical Christian. I'm voting for Obama/Biden. Most of my friends are Christian (some evangelical, some not). We're all voting for Obama/Biden.

Christian Groups like the members of Sojourner's are very strong on Obama/Biden.

The Christian Left is finally gaining traction in the media and is growing stronger every day. We're been around for a long time (well, since the time of Jesus, actually). We just haven't been as loud or divisive as the Christian Right, which is a more entertaining for the media to cover.

Obama has 20+ years in

miteegirl — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:10:52 -0500

Obama has 20+ years in public service (11 in elected office)

5+ years of experience in executive positions

12+ years in interpreting and teaching constitutional law

Has traveled to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

11 years as an attorney working for civil rights and neighborhood economic development

11 years researching, writing and working to pass legislation that affects lives at the state and national level in the areas of health care, security, government transparency, safety, support for veterans, welfare reform, death penalty reform, etc.

I would put forth that Obama's resume, experience and skills as compared to what is required by a member of the Executive Branch of government, either President or Vice President, does make him a better match, yes.

This recent news item:

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government
watchdog group.

...isn't doing her reformer characterization any favors either.

Convenient Christianity

LawyerMama — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:09:14 -0500

Hold it. Did you just call LIBERALS anti-woman? Let;'s take a look at the policies of the right and the left when it comes to contraception, abortion, equal pay, the ability to sue one's employer for discrimination, paid maternity leave and health care before we go throwing that stone, please.

"Christians understand that humans are fallible, and they know people in
their own congregations who have dealt with this exact challenge. They
will appreciate the Palin family's willingness to make the choice for
life, and Bristol's ability to take responsibility for her actions."

Wow. So only liberals are judged. Or mothers who keep their children and can't afford to support them and end up on welfare. What bothers me is the assumption that any liberal would make the choice to abort a child with diabilities or an unplanned pregnancy. (Sooooo not true) All we want is the choice to make the decision for ourselves.

"The fact that the Left thinks religious Christians will abandon

Palin after this betrays the extent to which they totally misunderstand Christians."

Much like the fact that the Right thinks that women will abandon Obama/Biden to vote for a conservative candidate who happens to have a vagina betrays the extent to which they totally misunderstand Liberalism.

Lawyer Mama

http://lawyermama.com

http://momocrats.typepad.com

http://dcmetromoms.com

Bristol's blessing and political pitfalls

Mary Katharine Ham — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 14:28:37 -0500

A couple of thoughts...

1) It strikes me as very McCain-like to know about Bristol's pregnancy and decide to pick Palin anyway. It seems to me it would rub him the wrong way to hold it against her, and the decision fits in with his tendency to take
the political hard road if he thinks it's the high road, and he
believes the person or issue is worth the fight. He thinks Palin is worth the fight, and probably doesn't mind the idea of coming across as an untraditional, unexpected Republican by not scuttling her for political convenience.

2) Let's be clear. This is not a political good for the McCain campaign that this is happening. The baby is a blessing, as reflected in the Palins' eloquent statement, but on a purely political level, it gives people an iffy feeling about an unknown quantity. This is the time when Palin should be building a trustworthy brand without such interferences on the
message front.

3) The Left is going to have a very hard time attacking her on this front, as illustrated by their first attempts to combat Palin with pregnancy conspiracies (The theory of many on the Left blogs is that, because Palin didn't look very pregnant during her fifth pregnancy, and her daughther was out of school with mono concurrently, that Palin had faked her pregnancy to cover for her teen daughter). Frankly, I think the Left bloggers gave the
McCain campaign a good reason to break this news on a day when it will
necessarily come behind Gustav and the RNC on most news radars.

The fact that Obama, earlier in the campaign, referred to such a pregnancy as "punishment," will come back to haunt him if his campaign steps out of line.

What's disturbing about both the rumors-- originated at Daily Kos on Friday-- and the way the Left has already been going after Palin and Bristol is that there's an
obviously anti-woman streak in it. "Palin can't campaign because she has a special needs baby!" "Palin can't possibly run for VP while her daughter is going through a major life transition!" "Palin endangered her baby by being governor while pregnant!"

Really, guys? So a highly capable woman with a strong support network and great family is supposed to lay aside the greatest opportunity of her career because she has a family in which normal challenges have to be overcome? The Left is more than happy to abandon all its "I am woman, hear me roar" rhetoric as soon as it meets a woman whose roar it doesn't like. The Left is more than happy to abandon the
"right to privacy" as long as prying is politically beneficial.

On Left blogs, commenters continue to suggest this is Bristol's second child. Shameless.

4)
It will be fascinating to see how the media handles this after covering up for Edwards and the story of his affair for two years. Are they really going to indulge in "baby bump" and "baby daddy" pictures of Bristol and her hsuband-to-be? The Jamie Lynn Spears story surely increases the possibility that they'll do just that, as does the fact that the Palins are Republican. I imagine the traditional tack of giving privacy to the children of candidates will prevail, as it should, but watch for the Left blogs and gossip blogs to spurn that tradition entirely. To their credit, there are calls at Daily Kos for decorum, but they also bear the blame of being the first to air the pregnancy conspiracy rumors on Friday.

MSNBC is undoubtedly thankful Keith Olbermann isn't anchoring today. I have a feeling his mouth would run away with him.

5) The fact that the Left thinks religious Christians will abandon
Palin after this betrays the extent to which they totally misunderstand Christians. Many conservative Christians will view this as the Palin family's determination to make the right choice-- for life-- under some of the toughest circumstances possible, on two separate occasions. Christians understand that humans are fallible, and they know people in their own congregations who have dealt with this exact challenge. They will appreciate the Palin family's willingness to make the choice for life, and Bristol's ability to take responsibility for her actions.

All in all, politically, this still gets the McCain campaign off-message, and that's not good.

Politics aside, best of wishes to Bristol, the father-to-be, and to the little one. It looks like the Palin family is one that will come out of this situation very strong.