BlogHer - School supplies socialism makes for an angry village - Comments

Communication

anniegirl1138 — Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:23:27 -0500

This is a communication issue.

When I was teaching, the grade level teachers put out a supply list as a group so that no child was having to duplicate supplies. There were community items (paper towels and tissue and paper/pencils) and we asked for donations of specific items for that school year that went beyond basics.

School supply lists went home at the end of the previous school year and were sent out again before the new school year. Anyone who needed assistance was asked to contact the school or the team leader.

We had parents who thought communal items weren't fair. We never argued with them. They were few in number. Most of our families were working poor and generous beyond belief when they were able, and even when they weren't able.

When I hear people gripe about school supplies and sharing now, I cringe a bit and usually bite my tongue. Everyone's child loses or forgets pencils/pens or doesn't bring paper to class (or the proper textbook - and lost damaged books are a whole other can of worms). I had one child whose nose dripped constantly and on a good day could clean me out of tissue. I once had to tell my students mid year that unless someone generously donated more tissue, we would all be wiping our noses on our sleeves (and this was after I had spent a good deal of money restocking my tissue supply myself).

I don't know of a school district that wouldn't take income issues into account where supplies or fees are concerned, and feel that this issue is too small to get upset about. As a parent, I buy supplies, fundraiser items that I wouldn't use, order from the Scholastic to help the classroom teacher build points to buy trade books, and basically fork over whenever I am asked. No one forced me to have a child. Her education has to be funded and some of this funding is going to have to come from me. I think it might be in the contract somewhere.

This is not a big deal.

Be Honest & Up Front

Teresa B — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 16:36:26 -0500

As long as it is known up front that the supplies are communal, I would have no problem with purchasing the supplies. I agree that to take away items that were purchased for my child specifically & then just randomly handing them out would be wrong. I'm more than happy to send in extras if that means that children that would otherwise go without have supplies.

On The Fence

lmerie — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 10:52:40 -0500

I have no problem buying supplies and sharing - of course I would like to have the choice in this. In our county, pencils, glue, rules, folders etc. are not communal items- each is his own. Local churches and community groups have widely publicized "supply raisers" for the less fortunate and we enjoy participating. BUT kleenex, wipes, dry erase markers (yep), bandaids and hand sanitizer are communal - writing the student's name on the item does not work. I WAS bothered when the five 2nd grade classes all required each student to bring a box of bandaids (I guess to supply the whole school K4 - 5th grade). I sent a partial box. I have quit sending kleenex after having done so the past two years and when my children did have a cold there were no tissues to be had. One teacher actually told my child to wipe his nose on his shirt. I now buy the individual packages and send only when my children need them. I truly believe most people do not mind helping the less fortunate families, but would truly appreciate being a part of that decision.

I have to say

mamalang — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 12:13:22 -0500

I'm pretty happy with the way our school district handles school supplies. In elementary school, in the lower grades, crayons and glue sticks are communal, but notebooks, scissors and such are individual. Things like hand sanitizer and tissues are listed in some way, and whoever wants to bring them in can. For example, one teacher wrote things like this on popsicle sticks and left them out on info night. This makes it so those who don't mind contributing do, and those who can't or won't, don't. And the kids get some things that are theirs. I spend less than $100 on everything we need, including for my high schooler (which is where the majority of the money goes).

I do think I would be upset if every item I bought was communal and I wasn't told up front. But I also understand that not every child is given the resources they need, and that somehow that has to be handled.

mamalang

two different issues

Mir Kamin — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:53:36 -0500

Daisy, I think I was pretty clear about my position here; my objection is to taking away and redistributing items thought to be personal property. Just because I report on people who might feel differently doesn't mean that their opinion is mine. I'm one of the people bringing in extra supplies -- I'm well aware that teachers are spending their own money and that lots of kids are going without through no fault of their own.

Part of the reason I chose to cover this is because unclear communication (which seems to be the case when items are taken away without prior explanation) makes everyone defensive and makes the problem worse, I'm sure, because then parents feel justified in insisting that they will only supply their children and no one else's.

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer Mommy & Family contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda

Having it all with less: Want Not

It's not a perfect world.

Daisy — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:27:23 -0500

In a perfect world, all children would have the supplies they needed, schools would be fully funded, and teachers wouldn't need to care about brand names.

In the real world, my classroom windows are either stuck open or closed because we're on the low end of the maintenance project list due to lack of funds. My students vary from children of wealthy business owners to children living in the homeless shelter; some have Hannah Montana, and some have nothing.

In this world, PTAs often contract with businesses that provide boxes of school supplies as a convenience: for a price. Those businesses require the school write its supply list by specifying brand, size, and color of every notebook, pen, scissors, glue stick and pencil. The words "or" and "optional" are not allowed.

I'm grateful to the individuals who brought in a shopping bag of extra supplies at Open House because I can provide new crayons for kids who don't own any. I can make sure that the kids who need notebooks get them now. White board markers? We've wanted to request that children bring one or two, only to find the smallest packs contained four. I have a classroom set of individual whiteboards (purchased out of my own pocket) that students use with their own markers. The whiteboard erasers didn't cost anyone money; they're my children's old mismatched socks.

Mir, you know I love you, but this post hurts. It cuts me to the heart. Making up a supply list is one of many difficult parts of my job. All the comments accusing teachers of "socialism"? Walk a mile in my shoes, people. Better yet, open my classroom windows.

Daisy

At Our School...

Headless Mom — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 23:45:58 -0500

...we dont have to buy suppllies-yet. What the teachers do, though, is put the supplies that they need on post it notes on the door for back to school night. As you go in or out you can take one that fits your budget, or not if you can't. It seems to be a great way for parents to contribute if they can. I have a problem with asking for supplies for the 'pot' but not making that clear at the beginning.

Great article, Mir!

The school should budget supplies into their spending.

L16 — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 22:50:26 -0500

I think it is the school's job to provide all supplies. Most of all it is not the teachers' job. I can only speak for my own school district which I also worked for after I graduated and the waste of tax payers' money is unbelievable. I have seen entire rooms of discarded computers that they have no idea what to do with. (Computers that still work).

The schools are government run and it is their job to provide the materials to carry out their mandate. Imagine if you went to your lawyer's office and he asked you to bring some toner for the printer in addition to paying his bill.

I would probably buy cheap no name stuff for my kids (even if wasn't communal) and I wouldn't mind sharing with the other kids. But I sure as hell would walk down to the administrator's office and give him/her an earful.

I don't think your comment

vbruss — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:37:24 -0500

I don't think your comment really addresses the issue, though.

People aren't complaining about the cost of the school supplies or all the STUFF that's necessary. Rather, they are complaining that the items they pay for are given to other students, rather than used by their children alone.

Personally, I don't have a problem with communal items AS LONG AS THEY ARE INDICATED as such, and I think each child should have some personal items of his/her own if possible as well as that communal well. When public finances run short, I have no problem with a teacher asking for parents who can afford it to pitch in and help. But it should be in an above-board, "Here's where the money/stuff is going," kind of way.

~Viv

www.coolmomsrule.blogspot.com

I don't mind sharing.

Lisse — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:04:30 -0500

My older son is in a multiage class, so he has the same teacher as last year, and the same school supply list with one exception - the pencil box that he kept all his supplies in last year.

In one year they had gone from having their own personal tools to a community supply bin. I was taken aback at first by the idea of dumping all the supplies I just bought, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. With our community the practice is less likely to be about the idea that other families can't afford supplies and more to reduce the bickering and the competitiveness.

Tigger was able to keep the folders he had picked out, so the one thing that was truly a personal selection remained with him. I think that's a good policy.

Except for the folders, none of the supplies leaves the classroom, so nobody loses anything. It also teaches the kids that to put things away when they are done with them.

-Lisse

@ Home in the World

I paid $25 for my sons grade one supplies

Crunchy Carpets — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:17:37 -0500

For Kindergarten it was 12.50.

They all get glue and scissors and pens and crayons..

They keep these at their desk I think....then they can have any of their own stuff too on top of that.

If you can't afford, you don't pay.

While I miss buying all the stuff...I think this is probably the fairest and would NEVER want the stuff I gave special to my kid to be spread around unless I said so!

Look for me at http://crunchycarpets.com or check out the ladies at www.wetcoastwomen.com

Stuff happens

gringainteguz — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:12:17 -0500

As a former US teacher, I may get in trouble for my opinion. Ahem! Here it comes! US kids and parents are forced to bring in many items that we never had to bring to school back in the good ole' days. However, back in the day . . . hygiene and material goods were simply primitive! Water and brown paper towels cleaned hands, and - only avaiable in bathrooms and the cafeteria. You don't want to know the PRIMITIVE way that the janitor handled a case of vomiting in my elementary school. No disinfectant wipes for runny noses, much less paper tissues were in our classes. Today parents WANT their children to have tissues, wet ones, and disinfectants available within arm's reach. What about art supplies back in the 60s and 70s? Notebook paper and crayons were all I had. Now, we have markers, highlighters, water colors, poster paint, etc. Sorry, the fault doesn't lie with the school or the caught-in-the-crossfire teacher. It's our culture that demands more and more STUFF.

As a former US teacher, I

gringainteguz — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 16:10:36 -0500

As a former US teacher, I may get in trouble for my opinion. Ahem! Here it comes! US kids and parents are forced to bring in many items that we never had to bring to school back in the good ole' days. However, back in the day . . . hygiene and material goods were simply primitive! Water and brown paper towels cleaned hands, and - only avaiable in bathrooms and the cafeteria. You don't want to know the PRIMITVE way that the janitor handled a case of vomiting in my elementary school. No disinfectant wipes for runny noses, much less paper tissues were in our classes. Today parents WANT their children to have tissues, wet ones, and disinfectants available within arm's reach. What about art supplies back in the 60s and 70s? Notebook paper and crayons were all I had. Now, we have markers, highlighters, water colors, poster paint, etc. Sorry, the fault doesn't lie with the school or the caught-in-the-crossfire teacher. It's our culture that demands more and more STUFF.

I agree with the person who

Meryl Carver — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:24:16 -0500

I agree with the person who commented that communal school supplies are OK, as long as parents know that beforehand and can shop accordingly. I can remember carefully selecting notebooks and folders as a kid to get the ones with the cutest pictures, and etc. I would have been heartbroken if my teacher had taken them away from me when I got to school. On the other hand, if you know it's going to be communal when you pick it out, it doesn't seem like such a big deal.

www.mybitofearth.net

School supplies

BrownImani — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:31:52 -0500

I just sent my fifth grader back to school. I like the idea of school lists, personalized to each individual teacher's specifications. This year because of tight funds I unfortunately found myself shopping in the "day before school opens" crush of parents and kids but my child got to pick out her cutesy stuff. My daughter's supplies are for her own use (her name is on everything including glue sticks and calculator) but I know the paper towels and 2 reams of copy paper, sanitizer, wipes etc go into a communal pot. I'm okay with that. However, if I found out that my kid's stuff was taken away and passed out amongst the class--I would go ballistic and I'm sure they would ban me from her school. I don't think that is happening here. If there is full disclosure up front when the lists are mailed out I think enough parents would be okay with it. I would rather just buy extra notebooks, pencils tcand give to the teacher to pass out to children that show up with nothing (and I know that happens. Some children show up with no lunch or money to buy lunch).

School supplies socialism makes for an angry village

Mir Kamin — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:10:58 -0500

Before moving to Georgia, the back-to-school issue that constantly stuck in my craw was dry-erase markers, of all things. Yes. Every child was required to bring a 4-pack of dry-erase markers as part of their supplies, at the kids' old school.

This was in a fairly well-off small New England town. As a struggling single mom, those stupid $10 packs of dry-erase markers came to symbolize everything that made me feel out of place there. Two kids + two packs of dry-erase markers = $20 I scarcely had, on top of the supplies they'd actually need/use and the inevitable new sneakers and winter coats.

(C'mon now -- with at least twenty kids per class, exactly how much time would the teacher have to spend writing on the whiteboard to need eighty markers??)

When we moved down here last year, I got the school supply lists and was relieved to see that no dry-erase markers were required! Of course, everything is different, now -- we can afford school supplies much more easily, and our new district is poverty-stricken, making us the "upper crust" (such as it is). Quite a change from our old life.

I bought every item on each child's list, last year, and was shocked when they both came home and informed me that their teachers had given them each all the supplies they needed. Apparently they distribute lists, but so few kids can actually afford to purchase anything, most teachers have made a habit of buy for the entire class.

This year I didn't buy anything other than the cheap doorbuster items -- nickel glue sticks, dime notebooks, etc. -- and I gave the kids some basic supplies and then send giant bags of extras in to the teachers (most of whom are purchasing with their own money). I don't really have any philosophical issues with it; I appreciate what the teachers do and I can afford to contribute, so I do.

I was aghast, however, when I read this recent post by Bill on Queercents, titled 4th Grade Economics: An Intro to Socialism:

The 9-year-old came home from school and explained that the supplies we bought her had been taken from her and distributed to other students. For instance, we bought her four folders as instructed on the school supply list - she came home with one. We bought her several glue sticks - she came home with one, smaller glue stick. All the students were told to stack these items up, and then the teacher went around and redistributed the items. Apparently, their first class was Socialism 101.

Bill goes on to share the letter he wrote the teacher in question, requesting the return of their purchases; at the end of his post, he concludes that they will be trying to come up with the money for private school, so disgusted were he and his partner at this state of affairs.

The Dallas ISD Blog takes up the story and asks for comments, which evoked this telling response from one reader:

I am a 4th grade teacher in a low income school. I do take up the students school supplies and put them all together. When a student needs something or runs out of something during the year I get it from the supply. Do the students get the exact folder or spiral they purchased? No, but they do get one of equal value. I also buy crayons, markers, glue, and scissors myself so that parents do not have to purchase these items( and so the students do not have to keep up with them). It may seem wrong to some parents but I have been teaching 7 years and it has always worked in my classroom. Is it fair? I don't know but I have never had a complaint.

I can see the logic, quite frankly, but I think this response misses the point. It's one thing to ask parents to bring contributions for a communal set of supplies, and another for a parent to think she is purchasing for her kid and suddenly discover that the items they specifically chose are being taken away and given to someone else. The not knowing adds a whole 'nother dimension to things.

On the other hand, I can also see where the communal supply idea is problematic in and of itself.

At IndyMoms, Jody is asking if others feel the way she does:

It seems like every year, I am required to buy more school supplies to be shared by the entire class and less supplies to be used personally by my children.

I can understand the need to make sure there aren’t any children going without school supplies, but I kind of like my kids having their own things as well.

Those fun pencils and folders they select at the store don’t even end up being used by my children. Instead, they go into supplies for the entire class.

Is anyone else experiencing this trend toward communal school supplies? What do you think of it?

The comments reveal a range of opinions, sure, but certainly no shortage of them.

And at Frugal Village, IamBlessed takes issue with both the communal pot and the micromanagement where certain brands are dictated:

I am a teacher myself, and I wouldn't dream of putting a brand name on a supply list. Neither would I ask parents to fund my supply closet. I know from experience that teachers are underpaid etc., etc. And I know that school districts are always griping about funding. HOWEVER, I know that every child is guaranteed a "free and equitable" education. I also know that if you make enough noise, the school districts will come up with necessary supplies and funding for whatever is needed in the classroom.

I'm not sure I agree with her; I doubt that our teachers would be buying supplies with their own money if it was that simple. Certainly if everyone took a stand and demanded the district pony up, change might be enacted, eventually, but there's principle and then there's reality. Should the teachers be expected to try to teach a roomful of supply-less kids while the administration figures it out? That's unrealistic, I think.

Emily of Grisham Family News has three kids and has put up with the communal supply situation for years, but she's had enough:

Now, the main grumble of this post....Anissa is going into seventh grade. When i was in middle school, the communal thing STOPPED. We no longer had to turn in tissue, hand sanitizer, paper towels, whatever. This year, Anissa has seven classes. One of them is band, so that doesn't really count. Each teacher is asking, to be turned in the first week of school, those items listed above. Not only that, but, ranging between 200-400 sheets of papers, graph paper, 72 pencils, post its, white board markers. So, that means, they are TURNED in, that they are being used for a communal pot. Sorry, but i don't think so. I told Anissa she could tell her teacher (s) that we have the things that are on the list, but we are not turning them in. When she runs out of paper and pencils, she can just ask to get it at home. That way, we aren't being penalized by students who chronically loose things and aren't responsible.

72 pencils?!? I have to agree that even if you buy into the ideal, here (which I'm not sure I do), that's just ridiculous.

The writer of Kimagine this thinks the supply pool is diluting the joy of back to school:

Part of the joy of starting school for me was always the new crayons, the crisp reams of paper, the unmarred soldiers of Number Two pencils lined up, waiting to be sharpened to dangerous points, and folders that featured pictures of my favorite things (for me, this was typically Duran Duran and horses). This isn't the case at their school -- all of the supplies will be mixed up and handed out to students as the teacher sees fit. I should also note that this is a public school.

[...]

What ever happened to, "get your children school supplies and allow them to take part in taking care of them"? What ever happened to, take care of your children, and don't mandate that parents have to pick up the slack for other people who just don't feel like it?

Though not a parent, The Monday Report asserts that the world needs to Keep Your Hands Off My Protractor:

The school system is damn lucky I don't have kids. I would begin by etching my kid's name onto every thing I purchased for them. I would then direct my child to keep all their belongings to themselves. Then, if the teacher took issue, that teacher would have me in their classroom every single day ensuring the stuff I purchased for my child stayed with my child. If they take issue with that then they would find me in the superintendent's office getting an earful every day. Then I would demand that the superintendent give me their car for the day as I want to use it. It's communal, right? Then I'd ask my kid's teacher to give me their lunch. It's communal, right?

I don't know what the solution is. Now that I live somewhere with a fairly significant "have not" population, I can't feel okay with saying that we're each responsible for our own children and that's that. I know kids who need and deserve more than that. At the same time, I am choosing to assist, and I don't know that I'm okay with other parents being forced to help. I am definitely never okay with a child's hand-picked supplies -- thought to be his own property -- being take away and redistributed.

So what's the solution? Are the schools which solicit extra supplies for the needy from those who feel moved to donate getting what they need? If not, why not? If so, why aren't other schools doing it that way, so that people who don't want to donate aren't being forced to do so?

BlogHer Contributing Editor Mir also blogs about issues parental and otherwise at Woulda Coulda Shoulda, and about the joys of mindful retail therapy at Want Not.