BlogHer - Chicago thinking about LGBT high school. Good idea? - Comments

LGBT high schools are needed!

PoeticTradgedy — Tue, 05 May 2009 20:26:56 -0500

Im a 17 year old Lesbian, all day iv been online looking for schools for the LGBT, I dont get bullied cause no one knows im a lesbian except close friends. I dont get harrassed, im friends with everyone in my high school of 500 because they are yet to know that they hate me for who I really am. I see what happens to the one actually 100% gay boy and it makes me so sick. Kids even from the group i hangout with yell and scream faggot fuckin flamer, they push him and glare at him. It tears him up inside i feel so bad. I know of at least 4 LGBs who are afraid to come out. Even if we hide from the harrasment coming out brings we have to deal with the lonliness of never being loved or kissed which is just as bad somedays Im posotive its worse i just dont know anymore. I beacame an alcoholic from being so lonly my grades have turned to Ds and Fs which were As and Bs freshmen year, but latly i cant even think about anything except if this depression will go away. I want to be surronnded by people like me, girls that i could have a relationship with and people who are going through the same thing. Think of the religious schools, those ids dont have to worry about being teased for loving their god they are surrounded by people who feel the same and so most of those kids get really good grades.There are only 3 open LGBs in the school the boys get harrased every day and the girl is really hot and has a boyfriend so no one really makes fun of her except for a couple preppy girls who she could care less about. I t doesnt matter if shes bi as long as shes dating a boy, actually I had a thing with this girl but she didnt want to push it any farther because she was afraid of going public if we started dating and being with a boy is so much easier to walk down the halls holding hands. If there was a place where LGBTs could be in a safe and healthy learning enviornment I think that they could have the chance to become very smart, sucsessful and well reknown people and that would help the LGBT community emensly because of the upstanding people that will come from our backround. Just imagine if every day you went to a place where all your "friends" talk about how sick and disgusting lesbians are and how people like that should burn in hell, be thrown to the sharks, or deserted on an island but they didnt even know your one of the people their talking about. And you sit there and smile in fear that someone will think your gay when alls you wanna do is cry from the hatred of the people who supposedly love you.

Wow.

yotebug — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:14:25 -0500

This is really insightful and I'm glad you posted it. I think one thing I'd be scared of is that with all these students in one place, what's to stop someone from going in and shooting everyone in sight? What's the security going to be like at this school? Safety has to be a huge issue to keep everyone safe in such a diverse and open campus.

I can understand the good in it, but I guess only time will tell how successful this is. I never had a chance in high school to come out though some of my closer friends were already out and proud. We didn't have a group or a support system in our school district, and I remember distinctly a friend of mine who was outed to his minster and was asked to leave youth group (our high school had very strong ties to our local churches). It was rough and I never wanted to take that chance.

At the time, I would have jumped to go to a school like this, but after the increasing number of violence on school campuses we hear in the news, my thought now is, "How long until someone gets hurt?"

I hope that's not the case.

2 cents

directorsara — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:34:04 -0500

Tolerance needs to be taught at schools and if every group had their own school then there would be no way for kids to learn that. When they grow up they will be forced to deal with people who are different than them.

http://mycheckedbaggage.blogspot.com/

Thanks for bringing some

no_I_am_zoe — Fri, 19 Sep 2008 09:33:20 -0500

Thanks for bringing some emperical evidence to the discussion. I think looking at who the schools in Milwaukee and in NYC serve, and the sucesses that they are, shows what a safety net a school like this in Chicago could be. My understanding of the proposed school in Chicago is that they expect the vast majority of the 600 students to be black or Latino. It is also my understanding that the targeted students are students who would likely otherwise drop out of school if no alternative was provided.

I didn't touch on the race issue in my post because I really don't know enough about acceptance among the different ethnic groups. I think those of us living in predominently white suburbia don't have a clue what the social pressures of an inner city high school would be like. Obivously, this proposed school is a much more multi-facited issue than just GLBT, but I didn't feel confident, or comfortable, that I could properly convey all the issues playing into the decission to open the alternative school.

Also, I think we do our students, ALL students no just GLBT students, a great disservice by not providing them with proper sex education that would be inclusive of sexuality and gender. I just read an article that reported lesbian and bisexual women are more likely to get pregnant and have children from multiple partners than heterosexuals. It is thought that the promiscuity stems from trying to figure out, or work out their true sexual identity. It also talked about a lot of other problems that stem from lack of proper sex education I'd link to the article here, but it's book marked on my home computer, and I'm not easily finding it again. I actually was thinking about writing a post just on that article. Lack of sex ed just makes me insane.

Just my thoughts

Mare33 — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 22:41:46 -0500

I cannot say that I would agree with a LGBT school. Our daughter goes to a public school and she gets teased {I wouldn't say bullied} about being a "Lez-bo" when she clearly isn't, she just happens to have two moms. So because of that, should my partner and I consider sending her to this LGBT school? No! I am not excusing by any means the name calling. But, if we cannot learn from one another and educate one another, then we will continue to take steps backwards. All I see this school doing, is separating us more from one another.

Not sure what I think

Jill Miller Zimon — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 18:42:39 -0500

But fascinating conversation. I'd probably stay in the middle and say, it's probably nice to have the option, but it's a decision for the kids and the parents. If there appear to be enough who want the option, then why not. But it reminds me a bit of when things come up like whether to split twins up or not and so on. There are not conclusive answers, I think. Best of luck to everyone trying to decide what's best.

Jill
Writes Like She Talks

NYC has had this for awhile

Pixiedyke — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:37:56 -0500

New York City's gay high school, Harvey Milk, seems to be fairly popular. 95% graduation rate and 60% go to college, better than most NYC public schools.

I disagree that a gay high school won't help those who need it most, the kids who can't come out and can't attend. Right there, playing against them in basketball, scheduled after them at graduation, are all the gay kids, living an out life and being happily queer right in front of them. Instead of the one miserable, lonely kid in the hallway getting harrassed, they are shown what we can be if we are free of that violence and isolation.

most sincere apologies

katebornstein — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 15:14:05 -0500

I'm an old hippie, and I use the term freak with great fondness. No hatred intended, and I apologize for not making myself clear. In this case, "outcast" might have been a better choice of words. All the kids knew that they were all outcasts, gathered together in the school—no one was a more "special" outcast than anyone else. So status was rarely a factor in putting up with bullying. More clear?

Very Good Topic

JC — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:39:43 -0500

This is a really interesting thread. Over the summer we had to make the decision about the best choice of middle school for our son. His issue is he's very smart, and at the big middle school, we were told by a counselor, "Smart kids don't do well here." We had to make the choice of getting him into the smaller charter school (better school, better academics, fewer social problems) or putting him into the bigger middle school with all his friends.

The upshot, I basically wanted to protect him and let him flourish. I was torn about taking him away from his friends but didn't want him to be picked on and harassed because he's different than the others.

Do we protect our kids or do we let them experience the harshness of society and toughen up? I think (although I could be wrong) that life is harsher socially in middle school and high school than it's going to be out in the world. I haven't encountered the meanness and cruelty in life that was so pervasive on the schoolyard.

What's wrong with protecting these kids a little, letting them be themselves, and giving them the confidence needed to take with them out into the world?

I think as long as we're

thlsralv — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:35:39 -0500

I think as long as we're willing to accept a Straight School or White School or Conservative Republican School paid for with tax dollars, than a GLBT School is fine...I just wonder about the double standard. High school is tough for everyone, GLBT students included, but I don't think their struggles merit them a segregated learning environment. Preparation for the real world includes being around and learning to deal with all sorts of people, whether or not they're nice to you.

I tend to agree with those that say that a school of this nature is not getting to the root of the problem: appropriate punishment (and enforcement) of school rules, most specifically against bullies. No one should be bullied and bullying is not limited to GLBT teens in high school. There don't need to be distinctions drawn between which type of bullying is worse - it's all terrible!

Learning to cope needs to happen on both sides

klpm — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:17:24 -0500

You mentioned that GLBT teens can use high school to learn to deal with bullying and homophobes but I would also like to point out that the inadvertent homophobes, those who are only parroting their parents stupid ideas (like the ones my close-minded religious upbringing gave me), can use high school as a time to grow and develop their own positions and to buck the discriminatory ideas they were given as children. If all of the GLBT teens take off to another high school, there is no chance to get to know them and to change opinions. I changed my mind early on simply by exposure to all different sorts of people and by deciding that the gay teens I knew were not different from me in any way that mattered and that my parents and religion were wrong. It would have been sad to have missed that opportunity.

Kristen M.

We Be Reading - http://webereading.blogspot.com

Hey - watch the hate,

RightistWrongs.com — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 14:01:31 -0500

Hey - watch the hate, Kate.

"...it didn't seem to me that the students put up with bullying like they
do in most high schools. Maybe that's because every student knows
they're in that school because they're all freaks of some sort..."

I certainly don't think that gay = freak, unfortunately there are many people who agree with you

Tina Righter

www.RightistWrongs.com

Class, Race, & Postmodern Gender Theory Play a Big Part in This

katebornstein — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 13:11:00 -0500

This is a great discussion. I agree that the people putting the school together would need to talk with and listen to the students they'll be serving.

I'm familiar with two public schools for LGBTQ teens. In Milwaukee, there's The Alliance School. New York City has the Harvey Milk school, aka The Hetrick-Martin Institute. Here's my impressions and observations.

Both schools almost exclusively serve black youth. In New York, there are a few less than an equal number of Hispanic queer kids. Every student in both schools is clearly visibly queer to their high school peers. None of them can pass for straight.

All the staff & teachers at both schools are GLBT or Allies. Most are white and gender normative. Very few—if any—of them are as radically queer as their students.

In both cities, many of the majority of youth are homeless. A few are in the foster care system, some on the verge of aging out into homelessness. Both schools provide two meals a day, which is often the only food the students are going to get that day.

There are bullies in both schools, but it didn't seem to me that the students put up with bullying like they do in most high schools. Maybe that's because every student knows they're in that school because they're all freaks of some sort—so anyone's bullying upper hand is seen as non-substantive. There are of course hierarchies and cliques, but I didn't see any that were authoritarian or exclusive.

The staff, educators, and administrators at both schools do a good job of educating the students in reading, writing, and arithmetic. Attention is given to learning some of the basic middle class white social and interpersonal skills required to live outside the school walls.

Beyond safer sex practices, neither of the schools teaches much about sex or gender. Postmodern and queer theory are the only world views that include these kids, and that's nowhere on the curriculum. (I haven't seen those theories adapted for accessibility to high school students anywhere. Does something like that exist?)

My conclusion is that if you're going to put together a high school for students who are there for no other reason than their sexuality and/or gender presentation, then doesn't it just make sense that courses in sex, gender, postmodern and queeer theory be a part of the curriculum? And what about courses in the systems that are oppressing most of the students: race, class, and age? Add that to what's working at The Alliance School, and Hetrick-Martin, and THAT would be a hot high school.

That would give the students the tools they need to deal with their life situations and what's really oppressing them. Or am I just dreaming??

Again, great discussion. I'll try to check back here for more comments, but I'm on a major deadline crunch for a new book, so please forgive me if I don't show up. xoxo K

If only Lawrence King would have had this option...

RightistWrongs.com — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:45:33 -0500

I agree that this would be a bandaid and not part of a long term solution. But, kids are being harassed, bashed and yes, even killed in school for being gay. If only 15 year old Lawrence King would have had this type of option, perhaps he'd still be alive. Earlier this year, little Lawrence was shot at school by a classmate. The boy killed him because he was openly gay and asked the boy to be his valentine.

Sometimes a bandaid is needed. Maybe the kids who most need this type of school would have the courage to come out to their parents just to make the request. I think its a great short-term solution. The new generations are less and less homophobic and I hope this will be a non-issue soon.

It's hard to move people on the issue of homophobia and protect our youth when there are so many bigoted groups advocating hate. Groups that should bring positive perspectives are doing serious damage, like the Boy Scouts who imply homosexuals are child molesters or unfit to be around children with their rules barring them from being scout leaders. Also (many) churches that continue to preach hate towards homosexuals. I don't understand why homosexuals are the prime target, they don't preach the same hate towards adulterers or other classes of "sinners." And while the churches are working so hard to add discrimination to our constitution with laws to keep gays from marrying - how can homophobia ever be erased?

The school is a good idea for now, but we have to get to the root of the problem.

Tina Righter

www.RightistWrongs.com

Not quite.

GreyDay — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:53:24 -0500

Not quite "separate but equal". Black people didn't have a choice. When you talk about segregation you are talking about LAWS and HUMAN RIGHTS. During segregation Races were separated to "protect" white kids from black kids. The whole idea was based on hate. The Lgbt school would be for the benefit of the students so as a black woman raised in the south I don't think that's a good example.
There were also separate water fountains, stores, denied rights, the civil rights movement...

I'd like to know the opinion of gay teens on this one. I was an educator for 16 years and if I had a dime for every time a gay kid ended up in my office confused and depressed I would never have to work again.

Also, there are all black colleges and universities where blacks that may not NEED to go do because it is a supportive environment. I doubt Toni Morrison or Oprah needed to go to all black schools, but they it certainly did and it certainly helped.

You also assume all that's needed is awareness and training. You want to give schools "resources". You will not get rid of Homophobia with awareness training. Most Homophobe are aware they hate gay people and why. I wish I had faith in human nature on this one but I don't.

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Chicago thinking about LGBT high school. Good idea?

no_I_am_zoe — Thu, 18 Sep 2008 03:31:23 -0500

Are GLBT schools are good idea? That's the question I've been wrestling with since I read that the Chicago public schools are considering opening an LGBT school, The Social Justice High School-Pride Campus. The school would be open to any student wishing to attend, LGBT or not. Officials expect to serve 600 students.

My initial thought about opening a GLBT school was that it's a bad idea. Bullies and homophobes exist everywhere, not just in schools. We have to learn to stand up for ourselves and deal with those who bully us because we all have to exist within the same society. We have to figure out how to fit in, find our niche, and be a part of it, not exclude ourselves from it. If we start to exclude ourselves, the bullies win. We should be out and visible, putting a face to the GLBT community. We are everywhere after all.

But then the I started thinking about if from the other side. I started thinking about how I would be asking more of someone else than I was able to face at that age. I didn't have the courage to be out until I was in my late 20's, when I had had lots of time to become pretty confident in myself and build a large support network. I also had benefit of transferring to a very large high school my freshman year. I knew very few people when I transferred and I had the ability to just be. In my high school years, I didn't know yet that I was gay. I knew I was different and certainly didn't feel like I fit in. I was fortunate enough to escape ridicule. Not everyone is so lucky.

The teen years are rough enough as it is. And as a gay teen, it's worse. As a teen you go through all kinds of pains and struggles with becoming your own person, independent from your parents...well hell, we've all been through it. I think we can all remember what it was like. Try adding on realizing that you don't fit the expected model. Add on knowing that you'd rather kiss girls than boys (if you're a girl), when you're family is telling you it's wrong, and your church is telling it's wrong, and you don't dare tell your friends because, well, they're caddy insecure teenage girls who you have to share a locker room with. There's so much pressure to conform. Now pile being picked on and bullied for it. Called names because of it. Shoved in the hallway because of it. And hope that that's as bad as it gets. What's worse, kids don't even need any sort of proof that you're gay. If you're an effeminate guy or tom boy girl, you're suspect.

Gay teens are at much higher risk for attempting suicide, dropping out of high school, becoming homeless, becoming the victims of violent crimes, and of using drugs and alcohol. It is estimated that gay youth is 3 times more like to attempt suicide than heterosexual youth, and over 30% of successful teen suicides were of gay youth. More than 20% of gay teens drop out of high school do to uncomfortable school environment (statistics found at PFLAG Pheonix). The national average drop out rate is around 10%. I don't know why there isn't greater outreach to this group of kids.

Victoria Brownworth wrote a moving piece on teen suicide and the feeling of hopelessness among gay teens today, even in the face of greater acceptance today than 20 years ago.

But while 54 percent of Americans think that being queer is acceptable, the other 46 percent does not. And the pressure to conform, to be heterosexual and to reject their own gay or lesbian identities remains strong for LGBT teens.

What's more, conservative and anti-gay groups have focused attention on teens, denying that any teen has a true gay identity.
Traditional Values Coalition charged on its disturbing website that the "claims" of high rates of LGBT teen suicide are "bogus" and nothing more than "recruitment techniques" to force schools to address homosexuality in the classroom.
-read Killing ourselves with hate

While most everyone would argue that schools should be working to build safe learning environment for all students, and that bullies should be dealt with, the reality is we don't live in a perfect world. What should be in theory, isn't always what is in reality. Teachers, staff and administrators can't be everywhere, all the time.

The reality is that most kids who fit in these categories are not so excited about school. They are returning to an uncomfortable, sometimes hostile environment. And the schools themselves don't have the tools to handle the kind of atmosphere queer and non-gender conforming kids, as well as kids with LGBT parents, have to live with every day. Teachers do not confront anti-gay bullying - some even foster it themselves - and administrators see the problem as "kids being kids."
-read Cathy Renna's post Back to school...

And even if teachers and administrators are there, some just let there personal beliefs get in the way of what's right. A story at The Olympian reports, a female student at a Florida high school who was being harassed about her sexuality, decided to go to the principal for help. His response was to tell her homosexuality is wrong, out her to her parents, and tell her to stay away from children. Not exactly a response that makes you want to come back to school the next day, is it.

Supporters of the initiative to open Pride Campus say this is only one part of the solution for GLBT students. The real goal is safe learning environment and inclusion of all students in the CPS.
One member of the proposed project's advisory board said

"I think it's important this isn't seen as a sole solution to LGBT inclusion in CPS schools, but one of many solutions," said Joe Hollendoner, director of Broadway Youth Center.

A member of the schools proposed design team said

"We don't look to this as an alternative to CPS making all schools safe," Greaves said. "In fact, we hope this venue will further the process by providing a venue where policy and practices supportive of LGBTQA students can be formulated and spread throughout the rest of Chicago Public Schools. Those practices and policies would be put in place by the participation of LGBTQA students."-read Amy Wooten Gay High School Planned

In thinking this over I still am not sure whether or not I an LGBT high school is a good idea or not. I could see how removing the stresses of being bullied and picked on could lead to greater academic sucess. I guess if opening an LGBT high school provides a school for kids who would otherwise drop out, that's probably a good thing. And if the goal is for this school to be sort of last resort for extreme cases, or a policy testing grounds for the rest of the schools in the district thus leading to all schools becoming a safer and more tolerant place for all students, then I think it's probably not such a bad idea.

For students with out the option of a GLBT school, they could join a Gay-Straight Alliance (GSA), or start one, to help promote a better school environment for all students.

Other interesting posts and resources on this topic:
Issues Facing GLBT Youth, posted Megan at Daily Dose of Queer
GSA Q and A, posted by Meg at Randomness
The Gay, Lesbian,and Straight Education Network GLSEN site
How to Start a GSA, GSAnetwork.org

So, what do you think? Is an LGBT high school a good idea?