BlogHer - My Take on the Vice Presidential Debate - Comments

Yes Toto, I am right. I'm glad you can admit it.

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:23:34 -0500

Okay, I love your back-handed compliment about me being correct. You say that I'm right and then you post some completely UNRELATED story to the Keating 5 incident. So what if John Glenn is endorsing Obama now? So what if Obama didn't mention it (if that in fact is even true --which I don't take much that Republicans say as fact in this campaign because so much of it is fabrication)? How does this make him a hypocrite? It doesn't. Glenn, like McCain, was accused of wrong-doing. This doesn't change the fact that JOHN MCCAIN WAS ACCUSED OF WRONG-DOING. And just in case you don't get it, John Glenn isn't running for President, but JOHN MCAIN is. That's the key difference between the two.

And I'm not making irrational leaps, you are. You are saying on one hand that you know that John McCain committed wrong-doing, but then you will throw in some off the wall comment that has nothing to do with the REAL ISSUES (like the references to Ayers). And what reform has John McCain achieved in the political system? This is another one of those blanket statements that Republicans love to throw out there as fact -- believing that no one will challenge it. Well, in case you haven't noticed, the American people are challenging. I for one am tired of the generic politics as usual. "Reform" and "working across the aisle" Rhetoric. Nothing more. Period. If John McCain was such a maverick reformer, there would be no doubt to his record. He wouldn't need to tout it himself. It would be common knowledge, and guess what (for a man that has been around as long as he has), it's not! Which speaks for itself. So, what we need is some new blood. Some fresh perspective and ideas. Which is what Obama will bring to the table. Change. By the way, if McCain is such a reformer of the political system why does he have so many lobbyists working for him?

PS What is this reference to Kool Aid? Maybe you drink Kool Aid, but I certainly don't.

Dumbing down America?

Elleuxe — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:14:51 -0500

I agreed with your reflections on Governor Palin's tactics during the debate. I was also appalled that so few people seem to find it singularly inappropriate for someone aspiring to one of the highest offices in the country to constantly use such poor grammer and pronunciation. I spent 25 years in Alaska, and raised three children there. I am mystified on where or how her speech patterns and accent have evolved from; I don't know anyone from Wasilla who sounds like that.

Yes MJ, you are correct.

Toto — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:24:35 -0500

Yes MJ, you are correct, when you Google Keating 5 there are a ton of sources and FACTS about this story. I liked this story the best ...

"You don't get introduced by John Glenn every day," Bruce Springsteen said yesterday at an Obama get-out-the-vote rally at Ohio State University. Former Sen. John Glenn, D-Ohio, was -- along with Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. -- one of the Keating Five, the handful of senators who met with federal regulators to urge them to ease up on the savings and loan owned by contributor Charles Keating. Hours after Glenn introduced the Boss at the Obama rally, the Obama campaign launched a campaign attacking McCain for his Keating Five activities. They made no mention of Mr. Glenn."

Now, stop drinking the kool-aid for a few minutes and stop making irrational leaps in logic about where you think I stand on this issue. Read my post carefully, ... for the record, I believe that the Keating 5 scandal is a legitimate political issue in this campaign. As you can see in my last post, I don't deny the facts of the story. The Keating 5 story involves McCain's judgment and political record, and Obama can certainly raise it as a point for voters to consider.

Like I stated, McCain has never denied using poor judgment in this case and has repeatedly apologized for it. Again, his record shows that he used the experience to commit himself to reforming the political system. In fact, he angered many fellow Repubs while fighting earmarks and pushing for campaign-finance reform. Before you start dismissing this as lies or propaganda, all of this information can be researched and proved to be factual by looking at his Senate voting record. McCain worked across the aisle with Russ Feingold and other Democrats in this mission.

Now let's talk about Obama's Senate voting record on reform, ... oh, I forgot we can't do that because Obama has nothing on record that shows that he fought anyone for reform. Moving on, let's talk about Senator John Glenn ... John Glenn showed very bad judgment with the Keating 5 scandal as well, yet the Obama camp has no problem using Glenn as a surrogate. Hmm, this sure makes Obama look like a hypocrite in raising the Keating 5 scandal, doesn't it.

To quote Ed Morrissey, "If Glenn is clean, then so is McCain. If McCain is tarnished, then so is Glenn. Obviously, Glenn helps Obama in Ohio, so Obama has no real complaint over the Keating 5 scandal that outweighs his desire to win the election. Like so much of Obama's reform rhetoric, his faux outrage over the Keating 5 scandal shows him as nothing more than a poseur."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/a-different-mem.html

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/06/obamas-keating-moment-glenn-stumps...

And? And? Did Obama build a

shelleyp — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:55:16 -0500

And? And?

Did Obama build a bomb? Did Obama condone what Ayers did? Did Obama ever advocate violence? Has Obama ever come out in support of anything that any of the radical groups did when he was a little kid?

We're not voting for Ayers, and Ayers is not going to be on Obama's cabinet. Nor is Ayers an influence on Obama -- unless we want to think that Obama in his 40's isn't capable of knowing his own mind.

I still stand by what I said earlier -- if you're going to condemn Obama than you're going to condemn the University of Illinois, Columbia University, the state of Illinois, and most likely most of the educators in this country because they all shared space with Ayers. If you want to blanket convict a person by association, then it's also fair to open season on Todd Palin, who is actually married to one of the candidates, and belonged to a party advocating succession from the US. The man is still not a registered Republican -- he still supports his old party. He's not in this for the country, he's in this for his own agenda. Just hoping his wife gets into office so they can destroy ANWR and profit from all that oil money.

Finally...Keating...Keating...Keating...for every Ayers you play, I'll see you a Keating and raise you a Graham.

Ayers was not convictided, but he connfessed.

Paddycake — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:11:31 -0500

FACT: Ayers confessed to bombing the pentagon.

FACT: Ayers held a political fund raiser at his home for Obama.

The Obama–Ayers controversy arose during the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign regarding Democratic Presidential nominee Barack Obama's contact with Bill Ayers, a Distinguished Professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a former leader of the Weather Underground.[1] He served on two nonprofit boards with Barack Obama. Both Ayers and his wife, Bernardine Dohrn, hosted a meet-and-greet for Obama at their home in 1995, where Alice Palmer introduced Obama as her chosen successor[citation needed] in the Illinois State Senate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Ayers_election_controversy

Woo Hoo! More slanted news

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:11:41 -0500

Woo Hoo! More slanted news coverage! Maybe Geraldo will come over from FOX and they'll dig up a 2-headed love child between Ayers and Obama! Now that would be a story! Who needs to focus on the issues when you have sensationalism?!!!!!!

Which cand. was accused of poor judgement? Oh yes, McCain

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:50:28 -0500

You don't like Wikipedia? Okay, google Keating 5 -- there are a ton of other sources out there to pick from that all tell the same story. It doesn't change the facts! FACTS! You do know what those are, right? Um, never mind. Maybe you don't. I only included portions of the article, because it is HUGE and I wanted to make sure the most important parts were included here. To save everyone else the work from looking it up for yourself.

Keep spewing your garbage about Obama (the Ayers story, etc., Truth Squads, whatever). It's all propaganda and lies. It must be terrible not to have a leg to stand on. Wait! Which candidate running for president wasn't accused of wrong-doing and poor judgement? Oh yes, that would be Obama. So, the question is why are you continuing to yell about Obama's connections, girl? This article is proof of wrong-doing by the Repub candidate -- sorry for his actions or not. By the way, boo hoo. Can we trust that there won't be anymore wrongdoing if we give him the highest appointment in the land? HMMM... Let me think about that one. No. No, we cant.

ALERT: CNN

Toto — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:50:09 -0500

Wow, CNN is finally doing some actual investigative reporting on the Obama and Ayers relationship! The end must be near! Lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvROBLortBQ

Wikipedia isn't exactly the

Toto — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:30:58 -0500

Wikipedia isn't exactly the best source to use since anybody can post information on it and claim that it's a fact. Interesting how you left out a lot of important details in your cut and paste about the fact that McCain was exonerated of any wrong doing and was censured for using 'poor judgment'.

Facts about the Keating scandal, McCain was investigated extensively and exonerated. None of this history is a big secret. It's a fact that McCain was never implicated in any wrong-doing. McCain admitted poor judgment and he is on the record for saying, "it was the biggest mistake of my life."

However, McCain was censured for showing "poor judgment" in setting up a meeting. McCain has never run from this record; at the time he was very open with the media and answered many questions for the press until all questions were exhausted.

In fact the Keating Five Scandal is what prompted McCain to make campaign finance reform his signature issue - he admitted his mistake and then worked (successfully) to amend the culture that encourages that sort of cozy lobbyist-lawmaker relationship.

Unlike Obama, McCain doesn't hide from his own record, and he doesn't try to silence people when they say negative things about him, (Google Truth Squads). Obama not only doesn't want anyone looking into his past relationships with known radicals he also tell flat-out lies about those connections.

McCain was exonerated of any wrong doing. Therefore, as far as this election is concerned, the Keating affair is a non-story. But if you want to continue yelling about it, you go for it girl! If Obama wants to waste time and money on a non-issue that's fine with me.

One more comment -- just in case you happen to miss it in

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:54:02 -0500

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981,[11] and McCain was the only one of the five with close social and personal ties to Keating.[35][36] Like DeConcini, McCain considered Keating a constituent as he lived in Arizona.[28] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[37] In addition, McCain's wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating's expense, sometimes aboard Keating's jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating's opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[7][38] In 1989 Phoenix New Times writer Tom Fitzpatrick opined that McCain was the "most reprehensible" of the five senators.[39]

AYERS IS IRRELEVANT. THE KEATING 5 HOWEVER IS NOT!

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 12:34:09 -0500

I am in agreement with Shellyp. And for the record, Ayers wasn't convicted, but Charles Keating (of the Keating 5 -- a close associate of John McCain's) served 5 years. And this was a scandal that John McCain was directly involved in. Here's the link for you to read about it yourself -- Wikipedia -- Just so no one can say it is a SLANTED source. NO SLANT in Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keating_Five

The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s. The five senators, Alan Cranston (D-CA), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), John Glenn (D-OH), John McCain (R-AZ), and Donald W. Riegle (D-MI), were accused of improperly intervening in 1987 on behalf of Charles H. Keating, Jr., chairman of the Lincoln Savings and Loan Association, which was the target of a regulatory investigation by the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB). The FHLBB subsequently backed off taking action against Lincoln.

Lincoln Savings and Loan collapsed in 1989, at a cost of $2 billion to the federal government. Some 23,000 Lincoln bondholders were defrauded and many elderly investors lost their life savings. The substantial political contributions that Keating had made to each of the senators, totalling $1.3 million, attracted considerable public and media attention. After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings, with Cranston receiving a formal reprimand. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".

Focus on Economy !

The Great and Powerful Oz — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:54:53 -0500

Lets keep the focus on the economy and judge the candidates on what really matters , What have they DONE ?? Has anyone ever been to the South Side of Chicago ??? I have - many times .
The residents there have been surviving in sub-standard conditions for years . There are no jobs , crime is rampant , and the housing conditions are so poor it is a complimentary exaggeration to call them slums .
The word ‘projects’ indicates a work in progress , but on the Chicago’s south side it takes on a different meaning - a stagnant , decaying slum . 11 of these deplorable buildings on the south side are owned by Obama’s friend Tony Rezco .
Obama funneled State money to Rezco to ” improve conditions in those buildings ‘ - never happened .
Obama also funneled $100,000 for a ‘ let them eat cake’ gazebo on the south side . The gazebo was never built even though I am sure that those families who are living in falling down buildings in crime infested neighborhoods were really hoping for a freaking gazebo .
Sen. Obama handed his wife’s employer a 1 million dollar earmark . He requested 3 million to update a projector at the Sky Theater .
Trinity Church and Rev. Pfleger benefited from the 100 million dollars Obama doled out for the Annenberg Challenge which was SUPPOSED to have been used to help the failing public school system .
Some of the programs Obama turned down for grants were : The Chicago Algebra project , and The District 5 Math Initiative - both are worthy projects that the public school system desperately needed to finance . Meanwhile , Obama’s buddies , and radical groups received millions .
When you go to vote this year , I would encourage you to check out the South Side of Chicago , Obama’s own Senate district . See what “Change” Obama has brought to his own district . Take a look at how his ‘leadership’ has ‘improved’ his own community , and then ask yourself , ” If Senator Obama doesn't care about his own community, what will he do for me ?” Talk about a " Housing crisis " .....

and a technicality let him walk free

LeeAnn — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:22:54 -0500

Please Shelleyp, let's get our facts completely straight here. Regarding William Ayres, he was released due to a technicality. There is absolutely NO DOUBT that he was responsible both directly and indirectly of the activities of the weather group; he is self-confessed to those crimes, therefore, there really is NO question that he is guilty of those actions.

I personally do not want to do anything so ridiculous as to condemn other teachers in the school for which he has worked; or students attending his classes, nor would I surely condemn stores where he has shopped, etc., but I MOST assuredly do condemn him for his actions then. There are other members of his group who are in prison; fortunately they did not get off on a technicality. What I question is that his political views (Ayres) were and are radical and he espoused violence, actually terrorism to his own country. I question since the things he says indicate that he is still of that same mind set what kind of attitude he teaches, but I hope that those who are in charge of overseeing the college that he works for to make sure that he does not teach those same attitudes to his students. As to what actions and philosophies he espouses privately and in discussions with others who are in his home, etc., I would fear that he would be of a mind to influence others of that same philosophy.

What you are not looking at, in my humble opinion, is that there are many examples of people who have been an influence on Senator Obama who do not love this country and William Ayres is only one of them.

LeeAnn

"Nameste"

Propaganda -- The Script for Liars

MJ2007 — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:32:47 -0500

Simply yelling liar is enough, and everyone knows it -- including you. When you're ready to have a real discussion (which by the looks of your posts will be never), I'd be glad to show you where the errors are. Until then, keep spewing propaganda, and I'll save my breath to campaign for Obama.

You know John McCain voted for 477 tax increases, right?

zchamu — Tue, 07 Oct 2008 08:01:27 -0500

You know John McCain's tax policy would not provide any relief for working families but would rather give tax breaks to the wealthy, right?

You know your numbers are utterly incorrect and all spin, right?

Don't take my word for it. It's all in black and white here.

Visit my blogs at ThreeSeven (all that's irrelevant and amusing) and
ecochick (all that's green, cool and Canadian).

My Take on the Vice Presidential Debate

Jo Ann Davidson — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 09:20:19 -0500

On Thursday night, millions of Americans tuned in to watch the first-ever vice presidential debate featuring a Republican woman discussing the most important issues of the day with her Democratic opponent. It was a historic event, and as the Co-chair of the Republican National Committee and someone who champions the involvement of women in our party and our political system, I was extraordinarily proud of Gov. Sarah Palin. Not only did she show the country what a dynamic and intelligent candidate she is; she also showed her tremendous energy for, and commitment to, bringing reform to Washington — something that John McCain has championed throughout his career, and the major objective of the McCain-Palin ticket.

Her desire for reform coupled with that of John McCain is a recipe for turning Washington on its head and bringing real change on behalf of the American people. That’s because Gov. Palin has a lot of experience in bringing much needed reform to government. In Alaska, not only has she stood up to members of her own party and taken on corruption within it, but also signed into law a comprehensive, landmark ethics bill. In just two budgets, she has cut nearly $500 million (no small sum) in wasteful spending. Yet rather than focusing overly on past achievements, on Thursday night, Gov. Palin clearly focused on the future, while Joe Biden appeared more interested in re-litigating past debates. I was glad to see her deftly point out inaccurate statements he made with regard to Barack Obama’s foreign policy positions, and call him out for dubious claims, such as his assertion that paying higher taxes is “patriotic.” She handled herself well, and showed herself to be smart, and prepared.

The bottom line regarding Gov. Palin’s performance, however, is that she is ready and eager to shake things up, just like John McCain, whose track record as someone devoted to changing the way business is done in Washington is well-known. Gov. Palin didn’t just win it Thursday night, she nailed it — and in the process proved herself to be a real breath of fresh air in American politics.

My hat is off to her.

Jo Ann Davidson is the Co-chair of the Republican National Committee and a former Speaker of the Ohio House of Representatives.