BlogHer - Oprah Disappoints When Celebrating Fat as a Beauty Standard - Comments

Thanks to you Maria

vanessa-reece — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 17:35:07 -0600

By opening up this topic Maria you have, whether you intended to or not, raised some debates that weren't on the table to begin with. I enjoy discussions like this because we are all learn and grow from reading what others have to say. That is the way we change things - call me an idealist but I think we can change some of the things that don't balance right from commenting on discussions like this.

I always like to think revolutions begin with one person speaking up - others follow in time. :)

Empowering plus-sized people www.sexyhotfatties.com

Great insights

Maria Niles — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 15:30:08 -0600

Thank you for diving in and adding your thoughts and insights to this conversation, Vanessa. You've expressed well much of the dilemma around this show.

Your experience with your admirers is interesting - I think it shows how screwed up discussions around weight have become in our culture and how it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation in which everyone is judged.

It would be great if we could get to a more accepting and healthier place.

My point of view is this

vanessa-reece — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 20:14:46 -0600

Excellent post by the way and I'm happy to add my tiny bit to the debate.

For my part I am in the media. I do plus-sized modeling and I also am an actress. It's what I do but it doesn't define who I am and that's the key which a lot of people don't understand about Oprah. As Mata so wonderfully stated - Oprah's weight is Oprah's unsolved life issue.

She constantly battles with telling people what they want to hear which ultimatley is to be comfortable in their own skin but she is the least comfortable in hers. I can tell you from personal experience it's not a great balancing act.
I recently let some admirers of my work know I'd lost weight - under doctors orders. I could almost feel the air thicken with distain. I felt they were thinking. Has Vanessa sold out now? Does she crave to be super skinny>

No but I want to live a healthier way and still be comfortable in my skin.

Oprah needs to go back to the good old days when she cried real tears and shared her own experiences step by step. That's what made her famous. No one wants to see the end result of her weight loss they want to see the journey so they can identify and understand they aren't the only ones who have these issues.

In regards to the episode I think someone mentioned how it opens up debate on beauty around the world and different perceptions of beauty around the world. I think judging by the comments the show could have been thought out much better. Some beauty logic from different parts of th world is almost draconian and barbaric but remember we aren't all born of western ideals. That said look at Micheal Jackson and what he's done to his body. Go figure.

Oprah really should now either go back to the drawing board or stop her show because she's losing respect from the very people who put her where she is today. I don't want to sound harsh because I know when you're surrounded by yes people it's very difficult to be objective about your goals and motives.

Empowering plus-sized people www.sexyhotfatties.com

Great insights

Maria Niles — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 14:52:05 -0600

Your comments betray your generous heart, Mata.

I agree that her philanthropy is wonderful but what is even better is that she uses her platform to encourage us all to join in the joy such giving brings.

But you're right that she does get disproportionately criticized and some even delight in seeing anyone on such a high pedestal knocked down even a millimeter. The difference between Oprah and Bill Gates is that Gates sells us tools whereas Oprah sells us herself. We do and buy what she asks of us because she has opened herself up to her audience. If she didn't share her life, her difficulties and the ways in which she is human and like us I doubt she would have the loyal and devoted viewership that she does. It's a catch-22.

So Oprah's tiniest flaws get magnified while Bill's go mostly unnoticed. But I bet you if he screwed up in a big way, the tabloids would eat him alive and many would gladly join in the feasting.

I'm glad she is rich

Mata H — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 09:45:48 -0600

I am always glad when a generous person gets rich. Her world has changed, and she is out of the money-worry slipstream. How great is that? I wish every one who had such a generous heart was free of financial angst. If she was not such a philanthropist I would feel critical of her, but she pours money out.

Oprah only has to make one flub and she gets knocked loud and hard for it. Here we have a woman who had struggled and through hard work has made it to the top of her profession. Yes, she has ego issues and blind spots --- but we also get to see her face them. She is proud of herself. Why do we think that looks bad on her and not bad on Bill Gates? There is another generous rich person -- but we do not clamor to know and crow about his failings and flaws. But man, the moment Oprah screws up, in moments she is held uber-responsible.

I do think what she said on the show was way out of line, and have emailed her. I figure she'll get to take that seriously. But is seems to me that some people (not you, Maria -- I think you were on point) want a chance to dislike her.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

Very true

Maria Niles — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 23:51:27 -0600

She definitely no longer knows many of the worries she once had and that anyone who is not a billionaire feels in the pocketbook. And it does seem sometimes that she no longer can relate. But I was impressed that this year instead of doing a show about her "favorite" material things because it would be so inappropriate given the state of the economy, she instead highlighted gifts people have given and received that cost virtually nothing yet are the wonderful presents people never forget receiving and cherish.

vodkamom

vodkamom — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 16:19:51 -0600

I just can't watch Oprah. She cannot speak for the average every day woman. Not when she's worth a GAZILLION dollars. She does not know my pain. no way.

Apologies not necessary

Maria Niles — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:22:56 -0600

You're right - Oprah is everywhere and inescapable even if you don't watch her show :)

Somebody will always be put off no matter what she says or does so, as long as she does not see her remarks as conflicting with her values, any apology would be hollow. Personally I'm still watching apology or not, I wear a watch from a company I learned about on one of her shows and I continue to bug my hairdresser to give me her style (even though I realize the folly since I can't employ her to come set and curl my hair daily).

I guess I was just surprised because I think I know her values and her remarks didn't seem to square. But ultimately it is up to me to recognize and express mine and if my outrage were sufficient I could turn off my television.

Thanks for your comments, Carla!

Making up our own minds

Maria Niles — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:15:46 -0600

Excellent reminder, Belinda. All television should be watched with an eye towards viewing everything through the filter of our own values. Thanks!

wow

greenandchic — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:02:32 -0600

I haven’t watched the Oprah show in about ten years due to working a 9-5 (no daytime TV here!) almost consistently; and I can say that I am shocked and disappointed by what I’m reading – about some of the things she has said and done.

On the other hand, Oprah is probably one of the most public figures in our time, so everything she does, see, feel, eat is going to be known to those who follow her and to those of us who doesn’t.

I would think more of her if she were to apologize for some of the things she has said, but at the point in her career, I can see why she wouldn’t even feel the need.

Carla

www.greenandchic.com/blog
www.greenandchic.com

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Human After All

Creatively Belle — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:35:11 -0600

I'm thinking at least this sort of mistake shows her to be human after all and not some sort of unattainable uber woman!

With a dash of common sense you can tell that these things - unrealistic skin care, weight management etc - are simply silly and although cultural sensitivities are needed they don't need to mean we all follow other trends - we are, after all, capable of making our own minds up. :)

All the best,

Belinda

Great Earring Holders - great Christmas presents and no more messy jewelry tangles!

Perspective

Maria Niles — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:28:23 -0600

Thanks, as always, for your patented loving perspective, Babz.

And you make a very good point here:

I control when I watch her, not the other way around. I take whatever she says with a grain of salt as I do anybody and everybody.

O is cool with me.

Lovebabz — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:21:08 -0600

I don't look to O to tell me who I am. Her show is entertaining. ENTERTAINMENT. If you like her...you like her flaws.

We all got them. Do I wish her to be more of something? NO she isn't elected to office. I control when I watch her, not the other way around. I take whatever she says with a grain of salt as I do anybody and everybody.

She is powerful and has a captive audience. But at the end of the day you get to decide if you want to be influenced or not. She makes being rich seem do-able. I like that very much. She struggles with her weight. I struggle with my weight. Do I wish I would let go of that illusive skinnier size...some days.

If we could do as much good in our lives and in our circles as she does in hers, this would be a different conversation entirely. Then what annoys us about her, would be much smaller and put in it's place...back on us.

Be loving & Be in LOVE

Tough balancing act

Maria Niles — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:41:18 -0600

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Abby and Mandy. I am sure you are not alone in your reaction and it totally makes sense. I wonder though if there is a point of perfect balance. I suspect that she would turn off some who want confidence (even arrogance) from aspirational celebrity (as others have noted above) if she sought to project more humility. I can't imagine how hard it must be to figure out how to craft your personality for a TV audience. Overall I think Oprah has struck a balance that works for her but certainly is not going to work for all viewers.

Thank you, Christine

Maria Niles — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:34:33 -0600

I appreciate very much you adding a different take on the show than mine and many of the commenters here. It is important. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to blog about my reaction - to get some perspective on my reaction so your comment is valuable to me.

While it is good to remember that Oprah is human like the rest of us, by offering her words for public consumption to millions she has to expect some scrutiny (just as I would expect as a blogger). I think she can handle and even appreciate critical (as in examining but even as negative) feedback. For all of us it helps us grow and get better at what we do even if it stings.

Oprah Disappoints When Celebrating Fat as a Beauty Standard

Maria Niles — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:48:14 -0600

Reportedly Oprah is considering retiring from her daily talk show when her current contract ends in 2011. Maybe she worries that there is nothing new left to talk about or that she is on auto-pilot rehashing lessons already learned. If today's show is any indication, sadly I wonder if Oprah has already mentally checked out.

I have a great deal of respect for Oprah's success, intelligence, business savvy and her philanthropy. However she rubs me the wrong way when she idealizes skinny as the holy grail, on those days she offers ball gowns as the antidote to "shlumpadinka" jeans and t-shirts or when she follows up a show chastising foolish spenders with a show extolling the fabulousness of shoes that cost several hundred to thousands of dollars. Even those days when she uses her platform to launch the careers of her "friends" like Dr. Oz and now Peter Walsh, I can admire her mad brand and empire building skillz.

But on days like today, I fume.

The topic seemed benign enough: Beauty Secrets from Around the World. But my jaw dropped increasingly lower as certain practices went by unchallenged with no critical questioning or commentary applied and, even worse, giggled at and extolled.

Certainly there are cultural practices that are in some cases thousands of years old and have roots in beliefs that are very different than ours in the United States and the West. And there are deep, nuanced discussions to be had about those practices and how we consider and judge them. But, yes, bird poop facials are funny and I think it is OK to laugh at times.

However, it is stunning that when you are showing women of color around the globe seeming to fetishize some Nordic porn star ideal by straightening their hair, adding extensions, dying it blonde, whitening their skin, enlarging their breasts, skinny-ing their noses and valuing aging while sexy as long as you stay under a size 12, you don't even raise an eyebrow or acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, this might be the teensiest bit problematic.

But wait, it gets better. Oprah had a woman on from the African nation of Mauritania. The young woman talked about how Oprah might think her fat (Oprah protested "no!" as the woman was still smaller than Oprah) and how she wanted to lose weight but was discouraged to do so by the women in her family. Video was shown of how bigger women are considered more marriageable in Mauritania. In some rural parts of the country, much like geese for fois gras, girls are force fed to fatten them up. We watch as young girls are taken to "fat camp," fed starchy grains and fatty camel's milk until they can stand no more and vomit at which point the feeding resumes. To which Oprah responds with glee to the fact that big butts and stretch marks are valued and plans to move there.

Sigh. No mention of the fact that Mauritania currently lacks a functioning government because the democratically elected officials have been overthrown, slavery flourishes and terrorism is rampant.

Look, I know that the Oprah show is probably not the forum for a nuanced discussion of such global concerns. And a daytime television talk show, even Oprah's, would quickly lose most of its audience if the focus were such a downer. But, really, I am shocked that her producers did such a poor job of doing even a modicum of research before writing up Oprah's cue cards. However, I'm even more shocked that a smart, perceptive, talented woman such as Oprah would react so shallowly.

Oprah, if you're that jaded and married to an advertiser-driven world view, maybe it is indeed time to bow out gracefully and focus on building your brand through surrogates and network owner moguldom.

Related reading:

Sharon LaFraniere at the New York Times "In Mauritania, Seeking to End an Overfed Ideal"

Oprah's community discusses the show

Bloggers are blogging:

Some share my outrage:

Living Oprah writes Frowning causes wrinkles ... but I can't help myself today.

Be forewarned: I was incredibly upset by this morning's show. You may wonder how on earth I could let an episode all about beauty secrets from around the globe get under my skin. Well, I'll tell you...but first, I want to temper what I'm about to say by admitting that over the course of this project, I've developed a deeper respect for Oprah as an entertainer-interviewer. But today, boy oh boy, did I think she missed the target by a mile.

Kathy Khang at More Than Serving Tea says What in the World?!? - Oprah, Shame on You

The segment I’m referring to was on Japanese women and how they value smooth porcelain-like skin. Oprah held up a sample tube of a popular whitening cream, looked at the name and because Oprah doesn’t read kana or kanji she made up what she thought was an “Asian” sounding series of sounds. NOOOOO! Argh. The audience laughed. The Japanese woman who was on live feed through Skype giggled and corrected Oprah and correctly pronounced the name of the product. Oprah then went on to say, “That’s what I said.”

Wrong.

There were good lessons to be learned because even as the audience (and I include myself in that generic label) could laugh or look in horror at what other women will do to achieve their culture’s standard of beauty we all know our own dirty little secrets. The show was actually something I could see using as a springboard for cross-cultural conversations about beauty, race, ethnicity, gender and class. The reporter, Mara Schiavocampo, talks about how she was surprised to learn that Asian women straighten their hair (long, black, straight hair = Asian/Asian American woman stereotype). One segment touched on hair weaves - how much American women will pay to have real hair weaves, how some some of that hair comes from women who sacrifice their hair to temple gods, and how some of those women live in poverty.

D at Bella Inspiration asks what is the Standard of Beauty?

Why do women subject themselves to these kinds of torture? To attract a partner? Do some women see in themselves as being so unworthy that they resort to all kinds of things just to be notice and receive some attention? How many anti-aging products do we see when we walk down the beauty aisle in a drug store? Why is growing older such a bad thing?

Others enjoyed the show:

Dorsey at Searching For My Inner Skinny is ready to book a seat next to Oprah and says Mauritania here I come!!! (though I suspect she might just have her tongue planted firmly in her cheek):

Who would have thought a place this wonderful even existed in this day and age? Are they also as forgiving if you go more than 2 days without shaving your legs? hehe Oh, and the icing on the cake....(and you thought THAT was good enough) is that men who have a few extra pounds are NOT seen as desirable. That's right, men need to be thinner and women can have junk in the trunk. "There is no such thing as a butt too big" Oh these words sounded from the lips of the guest like a glorious symphony!!

So like I said, I think I need to go finish packing my bags and convince the hubby to transfer to Mauritania. Sounds like a wonderful place to me!! hehe

Tifani Vallejo at Captivating seems to have done a better job than I in putting the differences into perspective:

This is extremely fascinating to me how so many different countries view beauty differently. It's kind of funny how extremely opposite America is compared to some of the countries mentioned. For example, pale skin? I like tan skin. Fat? Definitely not...plus it's not healthy. Covering our bodies? No I'm not saying dress skanky but come on. Funny stuff.

And, Tinaya was at the taping of the show. Read her Oprah Show Deets and think about whether or not you want to try for tickets when you're at BlogHer in Chicago next year.

Did you see the show? Even if you didn't, I'd love to know what you think. Am I overreacting or properly aggrieved?

When BlogHer CE Maria Niles recovers from the realization that she now will never appear on the Oprah show and may have ruined her chances to work for Obama, she'll write up what it is like to go to a TV show taping (as she's been to dozens), Oprah's specifically (Lionel Richie is just a boring talking as he is singing, just saying) and why glamorous is rarely what it's cracked up to be on her personal blog Beyond Help.