BlogHer - Why are Women's Bodies Public Domain? - Comments

'women's bodies are much more appealing then men's'

gabi — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:13:39 -0600

I also don't think women's bodies are more appealing then men's. It is ages and ages of showing and describing female bodies, in art, literature, photograpy, movies, which simply has made us used to it. At the same time the male body has been shrouded in mystery (although not in ancient times), and that's why the penis is 'shocking' and the rest of the male body considered less appealing, beautiful, erotic or whatever you want to call it. I am convinced that if we would have seen male nudity just as frequent as female nudity, we would have a different opinion about it.

Just take a good look at the naked male body: his muscles, his bone structure, his veins, the shape of his hips and his buttocks, his legs, his wrists, and his penis, and you will see it is just as fascinating, beautiful and erotic as a female body.

----

Three grand essentials for happiness in this life are something to do, something to love and something to hope for.

www.nakedmenhappywomen.wordpress.com

Interesting theory. I was

AllThingsToNoOne — Sat, 17 Jan 2009 07:44:29 -0600

Interesting theory.

I was raised in a home where I never saw either of my parents nude. My mother was uncomfortable with it However, my brother and I were very close and saw each other's nude bodies all the time. (not in a sexualized way, we were only a year apart in age) For me, at least, the male body wasn't quite shrouded in mystery.

Some posters already made the points about why we bring our young sons into the bathroom with us,so I won't reiterate that point. I did it until my sons were uncomfortable with it. I made sure; however, that I stood outside the mens bathroom until they were done.

I have always been very open with my sons about being able to discuss sexuality and respect for the bodies of others as well as their own. They're teens now and we freely discuss such topics such as nudity, body image, and respect. One thing I have noticed about my sons is that they have a lot more respect for women and sexuality than many of their friends and seem to not care as much about what their girlfriends look like.

Good discussion

ninepoems — Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:37:46 -0600

Wow. This is definitely an interesting topic. I don’t know what to think actually. I don’t have any children and so I haven’t had to consider the options. However, I have been a woman in a bathroom annoyed that there were little boys in there. Truthfully though, I think my annoyance was at the fathers. Assuming, and that’s a big assumption, that they were there to help with the task and chose not to. I’ve seen that before (while not in the bathroom) where moms are taking their boys off to go potty while the dad just hangs out. For whatever reason that just angers me. But I digress. I definitely grew up in a household where my brother and I saw my mom naked, but never sawmy dad that way. For whatever reason the double standard pissed me off as I grew older. NOT that I really wanted to see my dad naked, but you get my point. Furthermore, I always found it completely ridiculous that my father made a really huge deal out of not being able to take my little sister anywhere alone in case he or she had to go to the bathroom. She grew up in the 90s, before we had family bathrooms. It completely interfered in our lives. I had to gowith him or mom, or it just wasn’t possible for them to go at all.

There was discussion above about breastfeeding that intrigued me. There is definitely a contradiction in our society about breasts. Suzanne’s post makes a lot of sense about how women’s bodies, because of childbirth and culture, is the public domain, but the second you try to use your body for what it’s really for in public, people have a problem. I think that’s because while breasts are obviously very functional the general public doesn’t perceive them that way. They are still sex objects. I bet that if a woman was to run through the mall topless people would more likely laugh and feel more at ease than they would watching a woman plop a boob out and feed her baby in the food court. It’s very strange.

Rochelle | Nine*Poems Blog | Twitter

I can't believe how

biggirlblue — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 23:43:00 -0600

I can't believe how absorbing this post and comments are. It has definitely given me some insight into my own beliefs.

I have been interrupted in bathroom stalls by young boys and girls. I never thought it was out of curiosity. I just assumed their parents hadn't taught them proper public bathroom etiquette yet (knock to see if someone is in there and not look).

As for bathing with children, I have my own trust issues I guess with that and don't think it should happen after a certain age. Yes, more men than women. No one thinks it will happen to them, until it does. Someone mentioned that the incidence is "less than 1% of the population". I somehow think this is inaccurate; perhaps it less than 1% of those convicted of these crimes are interested in p-p children. And considering how many probably never get reported I imagine it is much higher.

We watch a lot of late evening tv and I'm always amused how bums are blurred but women's breasts are perfectly acceptable.

This is definitely an interesting discussion.

Moe
Big Girl Blue, M.E. Wood lens,
Large and Lovely, Five Favorite Things

nude into teenage years

janarayne — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 07:34:35 -0600

This has been a very interesting discussion. My husband and I were comfortably naked around our two daughters and they with us all the years they were growing up. Only during their puberty years did they cover up but then relaxed again once they were comfortable with their new figures. They are now young adults secure with their bodies and their sexuality and comfortable with women's place in society sexually. I concur with April; we never really thought of it as an issue and all turned out well. Jana Rayne www.awomansgoodnight.com

great post

MommyNamedApril — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 22:03:08 -0600

My husband and I are very naked people. We equally dress, undress, shower, etc. in front of our kids. We both take the kids into mens/womens' restrooms, depending on who's available, with no real preference for one.

So far we have two boys, and they're both young, but I suspect things will remain as they are even when the kids get older and if we have a girl. I believe that this comfort level (which includes public breastfeeding) stems from both our families having been very comfortable with nakedness and sexuality. I am glad for it, and really didn't much think of it as an issue until reading your post.

Thanks for the enlightenment :-)

April

www.AprilsLittleFamily.blogspot.com

Yeah, my three-year-old goes

Super Jive — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 14:45:59 -0600

Yeah, my three-year-old goes into the men's room with her father quite a lot. I am not worried about her seeing penises (which I think is rather unlikely anyway), but if she did, I don't think it would freak her out too much. She knows that men have penises, and that they pee out of them. Of course I trust her father to protect her from someone who is acting "weird" the same way I would protect her in the ladies room if someone was being inappropriate in there.

Blogher Pop Culture Editor | I, Asshole

Natural Selection

Bill Cammack — Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:28:01 -0600

Women's bodies have to be "promoted as sexy and sexual", because that's how men choose women for dating. I've never heard any guy EVER say that he selected a woman to be his girlfriend SPECIFICALLY because she was so physically unattractive to him. :)

What I'm "enjoying" about this conversation is that the 'facts' behind this phenomenon are so deeply ingrained that I can't find the right words to explain it to y'all. :D It's like trying to explain to you how I breathe. I don't know. I just breathe. I don't TRY to breathe.

If you look at prostitution, there's a booming industry for women to receive money for having sex with men. There's almost ZERO industry for men to receive money for having sex with women. Explain that. :)

You just can't find equality in every single aspect of life.

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

Hazing in boys' locker rooms is serious

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:56:56 -0600

Not that I can share a personal experience with this, but I have to strongly disagree with your friend's thoughts on boys growing up seeing each other nude in the locker room. Maybe jocks and other very strong men were comfortable wandering around, but boys face body pressures, too - they are just different from women. Plus, I think there's rampant concern with adolescent boys and nudity in terms of being labeled "homos" and bullied. A locker room is the "nerdy" boy's WORST nightmare. My husband (and many of his friends) confirms this.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

I love this discussion!

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:50:56 -0600

It's gone in so many ways and brought up so many nuances and permutations. It's really exciting to read everyone's comments and reflect on the different (and similar) perspectives.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

This post is so fresh

ramyana — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:29:40 -0600

Made me think in a total different perspective. Thought provoking.

http://brightbeginnings-rayma.blogspot.com/

I totally agree

ramyana — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:25:23 -0600

Exactly the same for me. With two young children, I don't have privacy to do anything on my own. While my husband enjoys his privacy in the morning, I pretty much do everything in front of kids before getting ready to work because I am multi-tasking getting them ready in the same time. Same with the public restrooms and everything else.

http://brightbeginnings-rayma.blogspot.com/

Women's rest rooms safe than men's?

Nordette — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:25:18 -0600

Dana, I remember when my son was under seven and I was still married, I drove from Atlanta, Ga., to Augusta at night without my husband and had to stop at a state rest area. I was walking into the women's room with my son when the male attendant at the rest stop told me the bathroom was for females only and it was against the law for me to take my son in with me. I was livid. I had to send him into the men's room alone and was probably made more edgy by the creepiness of the male attendant who insisted he go alone. Like you, I thought the women's bathroom would be safer for a young boy, especially at night in the middle of nowhere and if he were accompanied by his mother. I've probably seen too many crime TV shows.

Nordette is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is WSATA, and she's finally taken the dive into Tw

You make me think

Nordette — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:16:15 -0600

As I read this excellent post, Suzanne, I recalled an article I read back in the 80s in Omni Magazine, don't know if it's still around, that society is so conditioned to viewing women as sex objects that it's not uncommon for young girls to feel aroused not by male bodies but by female bodies because that's the body promoted as sexy and sexual. The female body is the one associated with sex.

Maybe it's an unexplored facet of what's behind the bishonen craze phenomena. Bishonen look more like girls, and while they are associated with Asian girls, I've written before (when I was the Jerseygoddess) that it's similar also to teenage girls liking teen boy idols who are feminine. Remember how crazy young girls went year before last for the girlish Sanjaya during American idol?

As I write I'm considering your thoughts on the female body being everywhere in various states of undress.

I've noticed that sometimes in movies a woman's body may be completely exposed, but the male body is never seen in that same movie below the waist, and so I've wondered, as you have in this post, is there something that we're supposed to think is traumatizing about seeing male genitalia?

What we see instead is the undercover penis, phallic symbols everywhere, the assertion of male power through subliminal messaging perhaps.

Ooh, let me stop.

Nordette is a Contributing Editor with BlogHer.com whose personal blog is WSATA, and she's finally taken the dive into Tw

Sexual Predators Rarer Than Most Think

MLOKnitting — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:18:33 -0600

While I was in college I did an internship with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The reality is that less than 1% of the population is predatory towards pre-pubescent children. (Adolescents are a whole other matter with cultural confusion as to this.) Because it is so rare, the news gloms onto it. There are actually more real dangers to your children than this one. The group most likely to be victimized by strangers are runaways / throwaways.

As to when the shift from women being sexual creatures? The Victorian Era had a great deal to do with that particular issue of repressed female sexuality.

The truth is that much of American culture (much of this is not true in non-English speaking cultures) is completely hung up on nudity and sex. Because of this hang up we are suspect of men when we should not be. And, there is a growing tendency to be wary of women as well.

Personally, I think that American culture makes "dirty" both men and women's bodies in different ways - and have been pushing sexualization younger and younger to feed unfounded fears in the population.

MLO / Melissa

Why are Women's Bodies Public Domain?

Suzanne Reisman — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 11:49:23 -0600

A few years ago, as I waited in line for a stall in a public bathroom, a mother came in with her young son. No big deal; this happens all the time. However, I was beyond dismayed when my turn came and the kid stuck his head under my stall door while I used the toilet. His mom immeidately yelled at him to get back over to the sink so she could wash his hands, and a thought process unfurled itself in my head: Perhaps one of the reasons that women's bodies are always on display Western culture while men's are private and guarded fiercely has as much to do with childhood as it does with the patriarchal sexualization of the female figure.

Think about it: when children grow up, they tend to be with their mothers. Boys and girls enter women's bathrooms, women's fitting rooms, and women's locker rooms. They are used to being around all kinds of women in various states of undress, even if they don't always see them. At the same time, since fathers are not generally the primary caretakers of children, girls rarely enter men's bathrooms, men's fitting rooms, and especially men's locker rooms. In fact, if a dad brought his daughter with him into some of the places that a mom would bring her son, people would react with horror, as though the idea of a girl (accidentally) seeing a naked men is somehow perverse although if a boy (accidentally) sees a naked woman, people just shrug. More commonly, I notice desperate fathers with daughters beg perfect strangers to bring their daughters to the women's bathroom if they are out and their children need to use a toilet. I concluded thus that everyone accepts nude women as a fact of life and that's just how it is. Female and male, we grow up comfortable with female nudity. Male nudity, on the other hand, is not public domain and is not for everyone's eyes to consume.

As I read the latest exploits of my friend Alex and her two kids over at Formula Fed and Flexible Parenting, I came across the following aside:

Meanwhile the boys had gotten dressed and popped into my room. Fortunately any sense of privacy I may have had disappeared when I had that first transvaginal ultrasound almost exactly 6 years ago. Perhaps in the checklist... I [was] given in our pre-conception appointment there needed to be a question that read, "Are willing to have an audience when you get dressed for the next 5+ years?"

Aha! This is exactly what I've been thinking. Motherhood itself really takes away that aspect that women's bodies are our own. Just being pregnant and then the act of childbirth itself requires many people to look at and into our genitals. (In fact, when my sister told me last week that she was pregnant, I asked her if she planned to breastfeed. She said she wanted to, but was afraid that it would be hard. I assured her that there would be lots of people who could help her so she should at least try it, and then she snapped, "I don't want strangers seeing my boobs!" We both cracked up at that, as she realized that everyone and his/her uncle would be poking and prodding her in the next few months and by then, who would care if yet another person gazed upon her bosoms?) Then, as women spend time doing every day chores and other activities with kids, they get used to seeing their mom (and maybe other women) changing, as I rambled about earlier.

Throw race and ethnicity into the mix, and we see how the public domain of women's bodies becomes even more entrenched in a negative way. Diary of an Anxious Black Woman cites a post by Michael Anthony Noir at the Vibe blog Critical Noir about a Salon.com article by Erin Aubrey Kaplan about Michelle Obama's butt. In both Noir's post and the discussion ensuing at Diary of an Anxious Black Woman, writers point out that the history of black women's bodies includes the idea that "the idea that black women's bodies were accessible and available to any--and all" (Noir), or more succinctly, as one of my favorite former bloggers Pseudo-Adrienne said at Diary:

Yeah, nevermind her Ivy League education, her career, and her devotion to her children and husband. NO! Let's belittle all of her educational, professional, and family accomplishments (and her *humanity*), and gossip over her ass, as if she's no different than the nearest video-girl! (eye-roll) Ah, another shining example how women's-- especially WOCs'-- bodies are public domain...thanks ingrained, societal misogyny and racism!

The combination of benign familiarity and toxic sexism, misogyn, and racism interact in ways that lead many (but not all, obviously) people to encourage children's natural curiousity about female bodies and shame them when they inquire about male bodies, create further stigmas around male genitals, engender a respect for male privacy but not female privacy, and at worst, cause people to believe that they have a right to see women naked that can lead to horrific violence against women. I wonder if it is why men are supposedly more visually stimulated by naked women than women of men (although the truth is that women are increasingly equal consumers of porn - it is just that we often must make use of porn that is designed for men and not women since few people bother making feminist porn).

No one's body belongs to the public. It would be interesting to see what the world would be like if male bodies were normalized to the natural comfort level we have with female bodies, and how that would affect how we treat women's bodies. Or am I overthinking this?

Suzanne also blogs about life at Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants. Her first book, Off the Beaten (Subway) Track, is about unusual things to see and do in New York City and makes a fine gift for those who love NYC, stories about unusual people and places, or both.