BlogHer - nursing - Comments

What are the next steps?

juliryan — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:48:33 -0500

I agree with you, Jill, that the problem is what to do now, after the Ohio Supreme Court's decision. It is definitely a case of gender discrimination. If a legal defense fund were created, I wonder if the breastfeeding mother LaNisa Allen would appeal? For example, it has come out that employees at Totes/Isotoner took unauthorised smoke breaks and bathroom breaks (and those employees were not fired). And I'm confused and saddened about by the response from Totes (eg, there were "other issues" that led to Allen's termination). It sounds like Allen did approach her boss before taking her "unauthorised breaks". Totes/Isotoner insisted that she take her break at 11, instead of at 10 (when she needed it). Protections clearly need to put in place in all states for our breastfeeding mothers. More protections are also needed for temporary employees like Allen (eg, paid maternal leave for temporary workers).

Agreed

Jill Miller Zimon — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 10:35:30 -0500

The only part of the idea of boycotting that is slightly tough is that it is really the Ohio Supremes per curiam opinion, in addition to the stance totes' attorneys took, that sealed this ridiculous outcome. We do vote them in and out, but they are TOUGH to unseat.

Jill Writes Like She Talks

Wow. Sounds like a good reason to boycott Isotoner to me....

LawyerMama — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:05:37 -0500

Reading the blurb from the court's decision, "Breastfeeding discrimination does not constitute gender discrimination," my husband said "Only a man would write that."

Enuf said.

Lawyer Mama

http://lawyermama.com

http://momocrats.typepad.com

http://dcmetromoms.com

So how does this work for

She Who — Fri, 29 May 2009 01:10:47 -0500

So how does this work for PPD moms who breastfeed?

I used to be one of the 'survivors' on a PPD board. Some of the posters were bottle feeding, some breastfeeding. Some had family or spousal support, some not. Some were experiencing PPD for first babies, some for later. Some had experienced depression before. Some not. Some actually had really miserable lives. Some, not so much.

One poster was younger, and single. She was pretty close to having nothing to call her own, including a way to finish high school. But she was very attached to breastfeeding. She'd persisted with it, and was proud of that. For her, it represented a step she had taken to take care of her baby.

It's another step to take care of ourselves and our babies to say, "Nope. Everyone here is miserable, a bottle works better for us." That's a great solution for some people.

So, it's the adversarial part I don't get. Depression is a bully, really. The things depression tells us are mean. Depression tells us we're inadequate, unattractive, unlovable...never says anything nice about us. But the counter to that is not to copy it, not to spread the misery. The counter to it is to see it as it is, small, and nasty, and ultimately a wannabe who doesn't exist without OUR support.

When you cast the feeding choice 'debate' as a win or lose proposition, and you have to WIN, you're playing by the rules depression sets. You're setting yourself in a universe of scarce resources, and the only possible outcome of that is a fight to get your slice. It's not the only reality you can create, however.

Was the girl I talked about wrong to be proud of her breastfeeding? Was she right? I'd say, neither, both. Just as one woman might be proud to lose 5 pounds and one might be proud to gain 5 pounds, and both be right, women are entitled to be proud of their healthy choices around baby feeding. Healthy for THEIR family.

My sister intended to breastfeed. She didn't want to talk to me about it, mostly because I'm her big sister and cast an annoying shadow. It seemed to me that her plan (which involved a pretty much instant return to a demanding job, pumping, complicated daycare and a completely unsupportive husband, just for starters) had a small probability of success. My utterly fabulous neice THRIVED on formula, but it took my sister almost killing herself (hospitalized with severe mastitis) before she was ready to embrace that option. That's awful, and I'm glad it didn't go any further wrong.

I don't consider either of these women 'failures'. Both made decisions they knew were best for their families...not because they had particular support for their choice (the younger one knew NO one who supported breastfeeding, except online) and had the experience of getting what we all want...happy families.

This debate isn't the root of the problem in ppd. It's a symptom. A distraction. Rather than extend this "mommy war" by continuing a debate between women justly proud of their choices, whatever they are why don't we just congratulate ourselves for making it this far? :)

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

I know what you're saying,

katstone — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:17:16 -0500

I know what you're saying, but from my perspective, which is the perspective of women who are going through postpartum depression, we are, in fact, that fragile. The breastfeeding vs. not breastfeeding thing may roll off the back of most moms, but it deeply affects suffering women. And since suffering women often don't tell the people around them what's going on, they go to the internet looking for answers. This is why this matters so much to me.

Katherine Stone Postpartum Progress http://postpartumprogress.typepad.com

Where is everyone getting this? Mommy wars?

She Who — Wed, 27 May 2009 16:26:48 -0500

Are people living in such a highly critical environment...and if so, why?

Everyone knew I breastfed, and I can't recall anyone in real life who cared, at ALL. Likewise for my many friends who bottlefed. I've had friends who suggested a bottle would make my life easier (or my babyweight drop off faster) and friends who asked me for help or suggestions, but judging? No. Who does that to friends?

Online, sure. To judge by message boards and blogging sites, the world is divided into warring camps of sahm v wm, breast is best v bottle feeding, and homeschoolers v everyone. Of course, to judge by television there are no adoptive families and policewomen wear stilletto heels. I'm kinda hoping that we all realize these pictures of reality are incomplete.

Don't we? I hate to think everyone is so fragile.

http://www.blogher.com/blog/she-who

Breastfeeding is a Man's Job Too

lauriepuhn — Wed, 27 May 2009 10:34:05 -0500

I appreciated Griffin's article for the honesty she showed in sharing her experience. I think it also deserves to be noted, that though she didn't mention this, men play an important role in breastfeeding, making it easier or harder for the mom. BF'ing should be a real discussion between both parents, not just among moms and her friends. I do think men should be more aware of the challenges women face and how they can be more supportive. I wrote about this on my blog at www.expectingwords.com. Here's the direct link to the blog post: http://expectingwords.com/breastfeeding-is-a-mans-job-too

I do agree that women

phdinparenting — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:59:00 -0500

I do agree that women shouldn't have to explain themselves, but I completely disagree that that is what the article points out. In the Case Against Breastfeeding, Hanna Rosin makes numerous false and disparging comments about breastfeeding:

She minimizes the health benefits by picking and choosing a few studies instead of focusing on the most comprehensive metastudy done.
She claims the breastfeeding is an instrument of misery that keeps women down, that they cannot breastfeed and work in a meaningful way, that you cannot breastfeed and have an equal marriage, etc. While that might be true for some women and some families, you cannot generalize about it and it certainly wasn't true for me. I responded to her remarks here: The Case Against Breastfeeding - Is it Anti-Feminist?

I don't think it is useful to anyone to say that if you breastfeed you are a good mother and if you don't you are not. However, that doesn't mean that we need to minimize the benefits of breastfeeding or pretend that it is anti-feminist. It may not be right for everyone, but that doesn't make it evil.

PhD in Parenting - http://phdinparenting.com

Feminism and Motherhood

fitzgeraldpowers — Tue, 19 May 2009 12:14:26 -0500

This was a very valuable article in feminism today. I agree with the original author's statement that said, "The Case Against Acting Like Breastfeeding Is the Only Way to Be a Good Mom." Women, for one reason or another, have drawn a line in the sand to define what a good mother is. And today, breastfeeding makes a good mother. It is so important that we examine these lines in society and have the freedom and the choice to cross them and not be ridiculed. Choice is what feminism is about. We have the freedom to choose formula or breastfeeding, daycare or nanny, at home or away from home, to cry it out or not to cry it out, etc. As mothers we can choose everything for ourselves and our children.

Many women I know get very defensive about breastfeeding. When I say that I breastfeed it is not an announcement. I do not put on my "Good Mother" sash and parade about the town, and yet many mothers have felt the need to explain their situation: I had a surgery and couldn't, I had no milk, I couldn't do it, It was too hard.

It's okay if you don't. It's okay. You will be a good mother. You will do your best.

We shouldn't have to explain ourselves. That's what the article points out and that is what we women must work on accepting.

http://letthewildrumpusstart.typepad.com

Oh yeah the answere to the question

soldier85 — Tue, 12 May 2009 15:56:45 -0500

Here I am blabbing away but forgot to answere the question. In my honest opinion I don't think it will ever end. There will always be a battle between natural and formulated and that's just what it is. In my opinion do what you think is best and ignore all the nagging voices. Those voices caused my depression so if I have another baby I know what to do and my life will be so much better because I know that.

-*soldier85*-

Pft Do Whats best for you and your baby

soldier85 — Tue, 12 May 2009 15:41:44 -0500

I absolutly support breastfeeding I really do. I was only able to breastfeed for 2 weeks due to lack of milk supply. I took supplements, seen lactation consultants and I wasn't going to let my baby starve just because I wanted to feel that bond or because it was "morally" correct. I think judging those who can't or don't want to is wrong. Some of us have jobs and are very busy people these days. Breastfeeding can be hard when you work long hours and you can't always keep your ownself fed so what good does that do to that baby anyway? Just like some who've had c-sections it doesn't mean you failed but your baby came out just as healthy as those born naturally. So just because you formula feed your baby deffinently doesn't mean you've failed as a mother. It's just what works best for you and that's fine. I was fed formula and my son was as well and he's a perfectly healthy 4 year old and is even smarter than 95 percent of the class.

-*soldier85*-

While I can understand and

phdinparenting — Tue, 12 May 2009 15:16:23 -0500

While I can understand and even agree with some of Rosin's assertations about the "pop culture" issue, she completely misrepresented the medical literature. She picked and chose a few studies about a few of the "benefits" of breastfeeding that are not that significant and ignored the rest of the more significant benefits to the mother and the baby's health. She ignored the most comprehensive review of scientific literature on the benefits of breastfeeding, which can be found here:

Breastfeeding and maternal and infant health outcomes in developed countries

That said, although it is clear that breastfeeding is scientifically the best option if all other things are equal, I do understand that other things are not always equal. Some women don't want to breastfeed, some can't breastfeed, some get horrible advice, some are dealing with the postpartum depression issues that you described.

I think it is too bad that some breastfeeding advocates feel the need to belittle moms that formula feed. I also think it is too bad that some formula feeding moms or moms considering switching to formula feel the need to downplay the benefits of breastfeeding in order to justify their decision.

I know it would be healthier from a pure nutritional standpoint if I put a homecooked meal based on whole grains, vegetables, and healthy proteins on the table each night. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible and I need to balance the need to feed my kids well with my need to earn a living and spend time with my kids. However, I don't feel the need to write and publish an article that claims that the nutritional benefits of a homecooked meal over takeout pizza are minimal at best (like Rosin did with her "Case Against Breastfeeding").

In relation to some of the issues you brought up within your post, I read recently in this post that you should:

- Never overestimate a mother’s desire to breastfeed her infant.
- Never underestimate a mother’s desire to breastfeed her infant.

That is the delicate challenge of trying to support a mom that has PPD or even a mom that doesn't have PPD and is considering her feeding choices and/or dealing with breastfeeding issues. Some women are looking for any excuse possible to not breastfeed and to justify their decision not to. Other mothers will move hell and highwater to breastfeed and will knock over anyone that suggests that they switch to formula and will feel like a huge failure if they are not successful. This is more about the mother than it is about the baby's health, but it can be a significant factor.

Annie

PhD in Parenting - http://phdinparenting.com

My son had jaundice and the

katstone — Tue, 12 May 2009 12:36:38 -0500

My son had jaundice and the nursery gave him formula from a bottle without ever even telling us. Breastfeeding had started out great, and then after a few days he just refused to breastfeed at all. I had no idea why until we figured out what had happened. I tried everything, but he never wanted to latch on after that, so I pumped for several months. I think hospitals need to work with moms on this rather than make decisions without their input. I deserved more help.

Katherine Stone Postpartum Progress http://postpartumprogress.typepad.com

Well I never thought about it that way...

Michelle McKinley — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 18:22:52 -0600

I just think of all the mom's perks as fringe benefits :)

http://superfabuloushousewife.blogspot.com/

Neither I think

EllieAndMe — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:38:34 -0600

I don't think it's either/or for me.It's just a natural part of being a mother. The same question can be asked about having a child in the first place.

I do agree with you that breastfeeding and how important it is to you makes you reevaluate everything else in your life. I too quit my full-time ob and started working from home. Wanting to breastfeed was deinitely a contributing factor in that decision.

Irina

http://amomswhatsnextblog.blogspot.com