BlogHer - K-12 - Comments

It wasn't just young men...

MLOKnitting — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:29:41 -0600

Though I do not agree with Newt Gingrich's politics, he is a very respected and learned historian. Most people do not realize that young women would be apprenticed to other households to learn the ins and outs of running a house in the same strata as their likely mates. Remember, the major difference between then and now is that it was assumed a wife would be running the internals of a business just as much as her husband - thus, she would be apprenticed to the "management" side which included managing the male apprentices.

I for one think it would be good to end the ridiculous and non-biological extension of adolescence. Young men, especially, are making bad choices that are affecting not only their futures but the women in their lives futures as well.

MLO / Melissa

Shakespeare lover here

ebyrdstarr — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 09:54:32 -0600

Oy. Thank you, Elizabeth, for responding the way I want to.

Shakespeare isn't hard, his language isn't impenetrable. Have you ever read the famous paper once written entirely in famous phrases that Shakespeare wrote? It's amazing how many of the everyday phrases we take for granted come from his works. And he's so fully understanding of all things human, especially those very human emotions that drive us. That's why his works have remained at the forefront of literature for over 400 years, because we still connect to the basic themes and the characters. Then there's the issue of just how many of his stories provide the heart of so many modern works you might profess to enjoy. "10 Things I Hate About You", Amanda Bynes' high school soccer classic "She's the Man", "O" just to name a few.

I've been to high school productions of all kinds of things that made me want to bore my own eyes out, but I've also been to a few that were excellent, even one that was sublime. I would suggest that the audience's reaction to the high school production of Romeo & Juliet has a lot more to do with the quality of that production than the quality of the playwright.

So Shakespeare devotees are

EKSwitaj — Sun, 16 Nov 2008 02:54:35 -0600

So Shakespeare devotees are not people? Or we only pretend to enjoy Shakespeare?

You are observing what a particular group of people under particular conditions do not enjoy, not what People full-stop "actually like". Note, too, that reaction to a high-school production hardly seems like a fair way to gauge an author's ability. As a writer, I know I wouldn't want to be judged that way. Yikes!

You state that people bother with Shakespeare "because authority tells us to", but which authority are you talking about? I would argue that there is an equally powerful anti-intellectualism in society which encourages people to dislike that which is difficult.

Shakespeare's language may be outdated, but his storylines and characters are not. I'm only 28, and in my teenage years, my peers and I identified with Hamlet. No less a contemporary figure than Maya Angelou has been influenced by Shakespeare, too.

Elizabeth Kate Switaj
www.elizabethkateswitaj.net

For Your Sake, I Hope Not

JC — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 16:14:12 -0600

Actually, you don't since they reside in Arizona. Sweet but not the brightest bulbs (the apples don't fall far from the tree.)

I have a niece who's been teaching freshman English for the past three years and she's had some real horror stories. Her first year out, they gave her the at-risk students (those on the verge of continuation school). Talk about a birth by fire. I've heard her stories and it's unbelievable but true. There are simply parents who don't care.

Then there are the students who are actually motivated and probably make all the difference to you (I hope).

http://www.storyrhyme.com/jcsblog

It's Always the Teacher's Fault

rebellious thinker — Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:51:11 -0600

JC, I've attended parent-teacher conferences (which must be with a counselor present) when the parents seem shocked that I am an actual person, who is not frothing at the mouth as she spit-speaks. They expect to see a fire-breathing dragon or at the very least a teacher like Miss Trunchbull in Mathilda. It's as if they are confronted for the first time with the possibility that their darling is stretching the truth just a bit.

I wonder if I have your aunt's children's children in some of my classes.

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com

But It's So Much Easier to Blame the Teacher

JC — Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:39:44 -0600

Rather than take an honest look at our child/home situation, turn off the television, take away the video games. I had an aunt that used to rail against the school system in her town (even at age 12 I was a bit skeptical). One out of four of her children actually graduated high school. Hmm, school's fault? I think not.

http://www.storyrhyme.com/jcsblog

Don't ban it, just save me from it!

Virginia DeBolt — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:01:04 -0600

Back when I was teaching middle school English this might have sounded like a good idea. Or even last Sunday, when I bought jeans for my 12 year old granddaughter and the size slims which had previously almost slid off her hips were now clinging tightly. She's getting hips! Save me.

Virginia DeBolt
BlogHer Technology Contributing Editor
Web Teacher
First 50 Words

Female says, "Here Ye!"

JulietR — Tue, 11 Nov 2008 09:05:48 -0600

Female opinion? I completely agree with the principle... teenagers need to take on more responsibility, but I don't think you can necessarily expect them to forego the ups and downs of adolescence. It is very biological, and this is coming from someone who rode an emotional roller coaster for many years. Yet it didn't stop my parents from expecting me to keep up with life. It was not an excuse to bail out of school or a job. Life goes on. When life began to stabilize again, I started where I had left off with the emotional and physical scars to remind me why my journey was different.

Society has created a social standard for teens and surrounded them with the pressure to achieve and maintain it. Why do we not have a standard of responsibility? Why do our parents and grandparent hold their pride in their accomplishments while teenagers now are more proud of their new [free] car?

We are lacking a sense of appreciation for the lifestyles we maintain and there is no one to blame but parents who support it. Parents are quick to bail their kids out because 'they can' but then will expect at some point for them to take on this chore themselves. Yet if these 'kids' never hit bottom on their own, how will they know how to pick up the pieces?

When did the concept of parenting trade in life lessons for new iPods and laptops?

Adulthood is unpopular

Lisse — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:19:08 -0600

I have a close friend who frequently complains that no one in our society grows up until their thirties, if ever. The more conservative side of me agrees with him.

People strive to stay as young as possible for as long as possible. We put off marriage, parenting, sometimes even college. We often dress like children, even at work. And of course, there's the profound sense of entitlement that comes from not having had to work hard from a younger age.

Any employer will tell you that the entry-level employee who has worked since high-school comes in far better prepared to contribute than the one who never had a job.

Adolescence is supposed to be a transition to adulthood, and although physically, it will always be with us; societally, we can make far better use of the time our young people have with adults as guides into the next stage.

-Lisse

@ Home in the World

I agree with the commenter

cooper — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 21:15:11 -0600

I agree with the commenter above.

I have great respect for my peer group on many levels.

I
will say I find this thinking people over 21 are still youth is
ridiculous. I often wonder why people my age are still blogging and
talking about their "best hangover" long into their twenties as if 5
years after college they have nothing else to live for or feel no
responsibility toward anything.

I'm not sure if it come from so
many parents of kids controlling them excessively during high school.
It seemed to me some parents I knew became almost excessively involved
with their child's life to the point it becomes their own and they
actualy foster that "your still young " attitude because they don't
want to lose that.

I saw a lot of parents who
virtually lived for their kids soccer and lacrosse games. Other parents
I called "the usual suspects" would constantly ask me if my parents
were coming to my soccer games and look at me with that "poor girl
look" when I'd say no not today . As if it was some unwritten law of
the parent gods that a parent must be at every function their child
takes part in until they are gradauted high school.

I
think the nature of kids not having to work, having so many luxuries,
time on their hands, and parents willing to buy into wanting to make
it so much easier for their children than it was for them is part of
it.

My parents thought the way they were brought up was fine,
and did not damage so I was lucky in that they didn't bother following
the mantra of the day they followed the mantra they grew up under.

Allow responsibbilty and independece and expect it earlier, fun is nice, but too much fun and idle time leads nowhere.

cooper

A Happy Medium

Colormepink — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 10:11:31 -0600

While I don't necessarily think that pushing a 13 year old into the work force is in any way a good idea, I do feel that as a nation we're allowing our children to spend years idle and not accountable. We're obviously doing something wrong - the problems that our children face are pandemic.

We've been having this sort of conversation in my house for a few months now. I have a 13 year old son and a 10 year old daughter. The son feels that he's entitled to be treated like an adult and the lesson that I'm trying to teach is that you don't just magically reach an age where your privileges are equal to an adult without proving that you're responsible enough to handle them. We have given the children responsibilities that allow them to earn their privileges. They have the right to healthy food, an education, a warm place to sleep and clothes on their back. Everything else must be earned. Harsh? Maybe... but once they're on their own, those basic rights that they have with me are not guaranteed in a cold, harsh world. No one knows what tomorrow brings and I know I want them to be able to survive in the event that something happens to their father and me.

I feel that we're not doing anyone a service by allowing our children to barely scrape by in school, having little or no accountability in the home, eking by for 4 or 5 years and then throwing the doors open wide at 18 and expecting them to "get it".

My adolescence was atrocious. I was forced to grow up way before I was ready with no guidance at all. A mother who didn't want me and so just changed the locks at whim and a court system that kept putting me back in her house. There should have been another option. I couldn't wait to be "of age" so that I could make my own decisions and be responsible for myself. Unfortunately when I did reach that age, I had no foundation to make those decisions and let's just say I'm lucky that I've turned out as well as I have.

It's an experiment in our house and I can only make decisions and
implement ideas based on my experience and the love I have for my children. I hope that I'm doing it well,
but I guess we won't know until they actually do venture out into the
world.

Christine
It's My World. Welcome To It.
Blog: http://www.colormepink.com
Homeschool Blog: http://web.mac.com/colormepink/
Jewelry Blog: http://www.starbrightjewels.com/blog

first adolescence in your 30's

hjordys — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 06:49:51 -0600

my 'teen' adolescence was never properly completed, or 'worked through', in terms of psychosocial stages of development. several friends have agreed we all just finished working through some of those key milestones in our 30's. i think for the more introverted and delayed collection of us, who were not smoking in the bathrooms and engaging in other recreational activities our parents would have frowned upon, had to play catch up. so abolishing the teenage one, is really putting off the inevitable. Disa Fedorowicz

I really thought

lesbiandotpro — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:15:58 -0500

I really thought Candelaria's response was well written. It's easy to be 'infuriated' by the loss of personal choice, especially when it comes to the rights (or lack of) with children. Parents don't always make the best choices (with the best of intentions) and whilst immunisations can be harmful, they also save lives.

I was only born in the '60's and can remember classmates wearing callipers due to having caught polio. People also can die of the 'lesser' measles etc. The bottom line is that people die en mass from very awful pandemic diseases without immunisations.

I agree with the sentiments on the flu vaccine, that is rather hit and miss and should never be compulsory (IMHO) - however those parents who object to their children not being immunised against the big ones (rubella, polio, TB, HepC etc) are really only getting the luxury of thinking their children don't need it b/c of everyone else's vaccinations.

It been years but it still spooks me

fmchick — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 08:15:59 -0500

Many years ago, when I had to have my daughter vaccinated for measles, she became so ill from the effects, I had to bring her to the emergency room and I was convinced she was dying. It was so traumatic that when it came time to vaccinate her again, I resisted. I know they're necessary and I understand the reasons for that necessity, but to me it felt like Russian Roulette and I didn't want to play that game with my daughter's life.

Of course, you can't get them into school without the appropriate paperwork/forms/etc. so eventually I gave in. Thankfully she made it through with some effects, but overall, just fine.

Until the menengitis vaccine for college. Not mandatory but I felt pressured into letting them give it to her. The dire warnings the nurse gave me made me feel like I was being a bad mother if I didn't give them the okay.

It went into her arm and she hit the floor. Passed out right in front of me. She was fairly lethargic for most of the day.

I don't know if it was the vaccine or the "nervousness" (which is what the nurses told me) but I'm never, under any circumstances, allowing anyone to put any unnecesary anything into my child again.

http://www.fortmyerschick.com

Thre's a good article...

Candelaria Silva — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:51:48 -0500

bMonday's Boston Globe had a great article on vaccinations and the costs t society when people decide not to vaccinate. It was in the health column. The jury is still out for me on the HPV vaccine - I do think that should be parental choice, but other childhood vaccines are important and have irradicated diseases that were devastating to large parts of the population.

Parental rights seem to make sense but not all parents make the "right" choices. Parents have a right to discipline their children yet some parents thinking beating is the same as discipline...I think there are societal rights. It's all a fine balance between individual and family rights and rights for the larger community.

log.candelariasilva.com

Good and plenty!