BlogHer - Law - Comments

Interesting Post

AnnQuirk — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 16:12:33 -0500

This is such an interesting topic to me....I was somewhat torn between each side. I knew what the woman was doing wasn't anything Criminal worthy of a jail sentance, but it certainly seemed dispicable and immature (just my opinion), particularly for someone long out of high school....I also truly felt for the woman whose daughter committed suicide.

I hope people can remember how (even eletronically) their behavior can affect others (I know we're not responsible for how people see our actions or how they react). Often I think it's just too easy to forget the person on the other side of an email / IM / Blog is actually just that - a person.

Thanks again for another great, thought-provoking article!

- Ann Q (from www.averagebutnot.com)

This was absolutely the

ebyrdstarr — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:02:14 -0500

This was absolutely the right decision by the judge, but it's shameful that he let the prosecution proceed at all. The theory of prosecution should have been rejected from the beginning. This was always a civil matter.

Criminal law needs to be clear so that those later found to have violated the laws had proper notice that their actions were illegal. If a prosecutor has to work that hard to find a statute under which to prosecute someone, it's a good bet the prosecution can't stand.

Preaching to the Choir

So interesting

mashadutoit — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 07:18:49 -0500

Thanks for this thought provoking article. I had lost track of this story. Its very true that we often try to use the law to right all wrongs - and that is often not apropriate. I remember a discussion about laws that make it a criminal offense for people to neglect their aged parents. It really points out the flaws in our society when we try to force people to act with normal decency by creating laws to punish them if they dont. And the fall out is often worse than the problem we are trying to fix.

Facts are facts

giggey — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:47:40 -0500

Hi Kim,

Lets assume the majority of the people of Honduras want Zelaya to continue as president. Even after his term is over. Lets assume his ideals are in the country's best interest and he will do his best to increase the standard of living for so many Hondurans who live in poverty. So lets remove left, right ideals from the equation. Here is what I think are the real questions:

1. Do you think a president should be given the authority to make decisions on his own? Assuming there is no left or right , can the president ignore the other branches of government, if it's in the best interest of the people. I say NO!

2. Yes, Zelaya stated the referendum was non-binding. It was nothing more than a poll, that's it. Congress, the Electoral Tribunal, our Attorney General and our Supreme Court deemed it illegal. How come Zelaya gets to produce the ballots in Venezuela, fly them into Honduras and then say the vote will take place no matter what. How come?? A president should only follow the law when he agrees with it?

It's beyond me how the international community is responding. And I think a big part of that is due to misreporting. Reports of congresmen being assassinated, people being kidnapped, military action and no report of illegal acts by a president. It's beyond me how they are asking for his reinstatement without talking about how he broke the law. Fine, put him back in, but are these organizations going to make sure he abides by our laws. Does he get to simply go back in and continue to make arbitrary decisions? He didn't respect decisions by congress before, do you think he would if he goes back? Why is this only scary for Hondurans? Who will blog, tweet, judge and support us in 5 years when Zelaya is still president? Will economic and political pressures return then?

You can go to Cuba and find supporters for Castro, go to Venezuela and find them for Chavez. You can go to Honduras and you will find them for Manuel Zelaya. Bottom line is what can a country with no impeachment process do when a president defies congress and the supreme court? How far should he be allowed to go? Firing the head of the armed forces and proceeding with an illegal referendum were the last two things he did, there is a list of things before this that no one is talking about.

Help journalists ask the right questions. Remove ideals from the reporting and focus on facts. See what's left.

The reports are conflicting

Kim Pearson — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:36:53 -0500

Diana,

Thanks for your comments. Perhaps you can help me understand a couple of things.

1. If Zelaya's support was so week, what was the concern about holding the referendum? Was there a suspicion that the vote would be rigged.

2. The referendum has been described as non-binding. If that's so, what was the threat?

Finally, why do you think the removal of Zelaya has attracted such criticism from the Obama administration and the OAS?

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

"Clean Coal" was snuck into

suzyjenkins — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:15:29 -0500

"Clean Coal" was snuck into the The American Clean Energy and Security Act right before it passed the other day. "Clean coal", that sounds like an oxymoron to me. Is this how they clean it, by dumping the debris into tanks and letting it spill and leach into our soil and groundwater?

Thanks!

giggey — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:06:13 -0500

Thanks Kim, If there was an impeachment process in Honduras that's what would have happened. Instead the supreme court and congress gave an order to the armed forces to remove Zelaya for breaking Honduran law.

No president should be allowed to make his own decisions, even if he feels it's what the people want and in the best interest of the country. Even if he feels congress is ruled by an elite and not representing Hondurans. He just can't take matters into his own hands.

I'm scared of all the International pressure the Honduran congress is under, I'm scared of what will happen if a man that feels he is above the law is allowed to return and be a president. If he didn't respect congress or the supreme court before, can you imagine if he is allowed to return?

And if he's not allowed to return, then what? What will fe face as Honduras? Embargos and all other sorts of economical pressure from other countries.

MISREPORTING

DIANA FROM HONDURAS — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:50:36 -0500

I am from Honduras and find this article and many others misleading and guilty of irresponsible journalism. Honduras is a democracy. Zelaya was cavorting with Hugo Chavez and wanted to turn Honduras into a Vnezuela-like country. NOBODY in Honduras supports this, and VER VERY FEW people support Zelaya. Most want him out of power. The country is stable and stories of murders and kidnapping are NOT true. Everyone is going to work, to dinner, etc per usual.

So please stop with the sensationalism and I wish other countries would recognize what Zelaya is doing

I hope your friends and family are safe, too

Kim Pearson — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:10:18 -0500

Thanks for the corrections, giggey. I waded into that post with a lot of trepidation because I'm not an expert and I realized very quickly that the reporting was heavily mixed with ideology. Trying to separate out the facts is a challenge!

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

Rumors

giggey — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 10:46:05 -0500

Hi Kim, thank you for trying to inform people about the situation in Honduras. It's a small country and while for Hondurans this our life, most people outside can't really be bothered with things like this.

Unfortunately some of your post has some incorrect information and I fear will bias your readers.

1. A small fact, but worth noting is that Honduran presidents can only serve one term in office. Manuel Zelaya was trying to hold a public consult that might allow him to run for a second term.

2. Congressman Cesar Ham was not assasinated. This is a rumor spread by Zelaya's supporters so that the international community will respond.

3. People are not being kidnapped, they are being arrested for not following the law that has been set by congress and the supreme court.

I can't tell you that I agree that a democratically elected president should be removed by the armed forces (even if they were acting under congress orders). What I can tell you is that a president can not act on his own and he needs to respect the other branches of government. Even if he believe the other branches are incorrect. This is what checks and balances are for. I am incredibly proud of Vazquez, the head of the armed forces, who decided to obey the laws passed by congress and not the ideals of his commander in chief. I am incredibly proud of the other generals that stepped down in support for Vazquez. Instead of blindly following their commander in chief, these men, our congress and out supreme court stood up.

Zelaya marched with supporters to retrieve ballots that had been confiscated, ballots that had been illegally sent from Venezuela. he said this public consult was going to happen no matter what. This should raise red flags for people, that there is more to this and that a perhaps things aren't black and white and Honduras isn't being overthrown by the military. Here is a different story being told by the WSJ http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124623220955866301.html

I don't know what the right step was. Should congress have let Zelaya move forward with the public consult? Or where they right to act? Was there a better way to act, that wouldn't have international communities condemming our actions? Vote was scheduled for Sunday, how far should they have let him go? Should they have let the mayor of San Pedro Sula hold the vote in his city, or where they right to arrest him?

I don't know, I'm watching from Canada and I can only hope that my friends and family are safe.

Agreed

Kim Pearson — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:32:14 -0500

It is very volatile, whatever one calls it, and it could further destabilize a region that is already on the edge in so many respects. Thanks for reading and commenting, AV.

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

It's a very dangerous and

avflox — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 01:27:47 -0500

It's a very dangerous and destabilizing situation. I'm not entirely convinced I would call it a coup, but remain concerned about the volatility of the situation. Excellent summary, Kim.

Perhaps we must agree to disagree

Kim Pearson — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 20:20:17 -0500

Hi Jane,

Actually, I did not agree with the Pentagon's decision to ban photos of the caskets of returning war dead. In fact I blogged in support of the Memory Hole's gallery of casket photos in 2004. To say that there are times when it is appropriate for editors to exercise discretion is not to say that he government should have the right to engage in censorship that is unrelated to national security needs or individual privacy rights.

In this instance, I concluded that it was appropriate to link to the youtube video page rather than posting it directly, so that people can make their own judgment. At that time, youtube had a page up that required viewers to enter their age in order to see the video. I thought that struck an appropriate balance between the public right to know and the need to ensure that the video is not used in an exploitive way.

Peace,

KimBlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

I don't agree with you, Kim

ByJane — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:04:40 -0500

Journalists, reporters, the press are meant to be the eyes and ears of our informed society. We cannot make the decisions we must if members of the press, for good or ill, are deciding what is and is not right for us to know. As far as our becoming inured to horror--no, I think each incident brings it home anew. As it should. I don't fear people being paralyzed into numb resignation. We, the people, are pretty strong, you know, not to mention smart. We don't need to be protected from life as if we were children. I assume from your points here that you were in favor of the last administration's refusal to allow the caskets of returning soldiers to be photographed. I couldn't disagree more. Life is dirty and messy at times, but if we are not allowed to experience that, we are shortchanged on experiencing its polar opposite--the wonders of life.

By Jane

http://midlifebloggers.com

http://byjane.blogspot.com

Great Piece...

SatelliteSister5 — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 11:44:21 -0500

Kim, great summary about an awe-inspiring story. I believe the video is critical to the message.

I'll direct readers here to get a complete perspective. Thanks.

Lian Dolan

SatelliteSisterLian