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True.... But

alyssaroyse — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 19:17:43 -0500

I TOTALLY agree that it's apples and oranges. My issue was the assumption that kids are doomed to suffer long-term damage as a result of the separation. I just don't think that's a safe (or fair) assumption.... These babies are going to be fine. Unless, of course, their parents continue to make such decisions. But it's not gonna be those 3 days that do it, it's gonna be a lifetime of decisions like that.

Honestly, I question everything about the parents who handed their babies over for this. I don't think it really harmed the kids, but I get super judgmental (which I try to keep in check) about the parents. Not a choice I would make.

That said, I feel pretty confident that NBC and all of it's affiliates and insurance people and lawyers probably made sure those kids were so well cared for that it would put any daycare center to shame. I am totally certain there was way more parent contact than we saw....

All I was saying was that saying the parents are knowingly harming their children isn't quite fair. They certainly didn't intend to harm the kids, and I don't think it's safe to assume that the kids will be harmed. Our collective intelligence as a society on the other hand, continuing it's plummet.

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: A Web Site To Save The World

Start Her Up: A Blog for Women Entrepreneurs

Apples and oranges

amygeekgrl — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:52:30 -0500

I feel fortunate that I was able to be a SAHM since the birth of my first child. I didn't look into any kind of childcare until my daughter was 3 and I decided to enroll her in preschool. When that time came, I first got some recommendations from friends and then visited the preschool to see how the teacher interacted with the students. After that, my husband and I met with the teacher for an interview to make sure that she was a good fit for us and that our daughter was a good fit for the school. It was then that we decided it would be a good place to send our daughter.

I think most people, when they sign up for daycare or preschool for their child, go through a similar process. They want their child to be in good, experienced hands. They check credentials, they interview, they sit in to observe. All of this is in stark contrast to what happened on The Baby Borrowers when parents let their babies go with immature, self-absorbed strangers that had little to no experience with babies - certainly no formal training.

Also, as "amamasblog" pointed out with daycare there are often trial runs, and the baby gets used to the caregiver gradually and the caregiver to the baby. It's possible that this happened behind the scenes w/ the TV show, but as far as I know, we can't confirm that and they certainly didn't elude to that taking place. With a gradual introduction to daycare, baby begins to see that it is a routine and that mommy or daddy will come back for them each time. Whereas with The Baby Borrowers, the parents were to leave the babies for 3 days. Yes, they were watching them on nannycams, but the babies didn't know that. And yes, they could stop in whenever they wanted and we don't know how often that really happened, but it still does not feel the same to me as a daycare situation.

It is because of these things that I don't feel it is fair to compare The Baby Borrowers to daycare. They are apples and oranges.

Amy
Crunchy Domestic Goddess
BlogHers Act contributing editor

love the local

AdrianaWA — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:29:05 -0500

Hello!

That's funny -- my son wanted to be held all the time, too! And he refused to sleep alone. Now he's a very independent, though still cuddly, four-year-old. It gets easier.

I love eating locally and post recipes on my blog, What I Made for Dinner (ack link function isn't working on my laptop, so http://whatimadefordinner.blogspot.com). I just went to a strawberry luncheon featuring grilled lamb with a strawberry sauce! Kind of a complex dish for a family with a newborn, though.

If I were you, I'd start out simple: snack on the local strawberries, which you can probably wash one-handed ;) Have one of those free-range eggs poached for breakfast with whole-grain bread from your local bakery.

If you have a little more time to cook, or if you can get someone else to cook for you, asparagus buckwheat crepes are pretty good.

Sautee mushrooms and chopped asparagus with garlic in olive oil, thyme, salt, and a leetle red wine. Set aside.

Combine 1/2 cup water 1/2 cup buttermilk, 2 eggs, 1/4 cup buckwheat flour, 1/3 whole wheat flour, 1/4 t salt, 1 1/2 T melted butter. Let batter sit at least 1/2 hour.

Ladle batter into hot, buttered pan, making sure it spreads to all sides. Cook, then flip. Add some of the asparagus mixture to the center, top with grated local cheese, fold over crepe, and enjoy!

Crepes take a little practice, so make sure everyone is in a good mood, first.

Is Daycare the Same Thing?

amamasblog — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:33:12 -0500

I have read some other comments about this show being pretty much like daycare in that a baby is left with a stranger for most of the day, five days a week.

I refuse to watch any of this show, so I don't know if the teens and the babies were given time to know each other before the switch was made or not. But, I don't think you can compare this show to daycare.

Most people who work in daycare are VERY experienced around babies. Some daycares won't even accept infants, if they are not prepared for them. Daycares in general have rules and regulations and training for the staff who will handle babies, and usually use the same person day after day to care for the babies. Furthermore, many daycare workers have degrees or some education in child development.

I have never heard of a daycare center accepting a baby either, without a few trial runs. Most providers want you to start daycare a few weeks before, and leave the baby for a half-an-hour at first, then an hour, etc. to work up to gradual time the baby will be left. And the parents are always back with the baby after work.

My biggest complaint with this show and comparing it to daycare is most people who leave their children and daycare for 8+ hours a day HAVE to- they have no choice. And I am assuming most of these parents strive to find the warmest, most caring, and loving setting they can find. Of course babies can bond to more than one person, and this often happens with a daycare provider long term, and the process can be quickened with someone who is experienced in caring for babies.

In my mind is morally wrong to leave babies with strangers for mere entertainment for a TV show! There is a big difference in having to leave your baby with a care provider if an emergency comes up, or you have to work. But to hand your baby over, to try to teach teens a lesson about the "reality" of babies, is wrong. Why not just turn the babies over to teens right when they are born, so they can see what having a newborn is like?

The bond between a parent and their baby is sacred. It is the cornerstone and foundation for building a secure and confident person- and is a basic element for the building blocks of our society. Messing with this bond on purpose, and dumping your baby off to teens, who are not fully emotionally developed themselves to handle the demands of a baby, for a TV show is wrong.

It scares me to think what people will do for fame- obviously nothing- not even the bond between a mother/father and their baby- is sacred anymore.

Reality Check

alyssaroyse — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:52:26 -0500

Let me start by saying that Baby Borrowers really bothered me and I do think that it was remarkably poor decision making on the part of NBC. (Except that we're all sitting here talking about it and more than a few people who didn't see it last time will probably tune in next time. Well done, NBC!)

Using babies as pawns for ratings is gross. Yes, it's worse than other lame reality TV shows.

But, before we assume this children will have lifelong scars as a result, let's step back and be careful that we don't inadvertently demonize every parent who has left their child alone for an extended period. (Again, NBC, tasteless.)

I know that when my daughter was 6 weeks old my appendix burst and my daughter was suddenly without me for a week. For that matter, there wasn't a drop of breast milk ever again after that. Oh, and she never needed to sleep with me through the night again. And she's fine. (Actually, the age of 10, she's about to pack up and head to sleep away camp for 6 weeks. Her choice - I'll be a wreck.)

Children all over the country are dropped off at daycare for 12 hours a day. Most of them are fine.

Indeed, none of us knows what decision we make in our children's early childhood that will land them on the therapist couch later in life. (Mine recently assured my that my insistence on singing loudly to the radio in the car will scar her for life.)

I know that when I chose to put my daughter in daycare while I was working I was told she would be scarred due to the separation. Likewise, when I quit work to be a stay-at-home mom, I was told she would be scarred because she wasn't being socialized. Call me crazy, but I think that most parents make the decisions that feel right to them at the time. You may not agree with someone else's decisions and they may not agree with yours. No one is right.

As for the birth control impact? I dunno. I had forgotten how hard those early days were and one episode of Baby Borrowers caused me to tear up the adoption papers I was thinking about filling out. I think that teenagers generally do watch tv shows about teenagers, so I wouldn't be surprised if they hit their demographic. And personally, I bet it worked.

Like others, I assume there was a whole lot more back-end security and contact than we saw.

Now, can we talk about The Bachelor? Good Gods, what that does for peoples idea of love is insane. Baby Borrowers? Pretty realistic. (Both, in my mind are equally tasteless and function at approximately the same maturity level.)

___________
Alyssa Royse
JUST CAUSE: A Web Site To Save The World

Start Her Up: A blog for Women Entrepreneurs

I too was sick to my stomach

workoutmommy — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:07:58 -0500

I too was sick to my stomach at the thought of handing my baby over to strangers!

Not only that, but how could the parents of the teens allow them to be on this show? I don't think they ever revealed the ages, but one of the girls was wearing a shirt that said "junior girls", so I am assuming they are still in high school. Since when is it ok to set up house and share a bed with your high school boyfriend? on national tv?

I think 2 of them said they have never had a job before. They have never had to work, yet they are being trusted with babies?

I agree, there are better ways to teach teens about babies. I think NBC dropped the ball on this one, all in the name of ratings.

Lisa

www.workoutmommy.com

blaming doesn't help

go.chris — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 20:17:29 -0500

Certainly parents are responsible for their babies emotional health. And I highly doubt that this wasn't considered when they signed up for this project. Perhaps they felt that if they saved one other baby from coming into the world to an unprepared teen parent, that good would outweigh any potential damage.

Babies are left with strangers all of the time. Even grandparents, and some might argue fathers, are strangers at some point. Maybe part of the plan was to see first hand how their children reacted to strangers? Maybe they wanted to ensure that a stranger would never watch their child again? We will never know.

My point was more that playing the blame game doesn't help. Parents make decisions all the time about the well being of their children. Sometimes they don't make the best decisions, or at least what seems the best to us, but I have to believe that they all do the best they can.

--chris

{blog} http://www.onceupon.com/27floor/blogger.html
beyond the loop :: my adventures in boxes

Agree and disagree

amygeekgrl — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:47:44 -0500

Chris,

You raise a good point in that reality shows are never actually about reality. Funny how that is, huh?

You said: "I don't know that it is fair to blame the parents." If the parents aren't responsible for the babies, then who? I understand that safety measures to protect their physical health were all in place, but who was taking care of the babies' emotional health? Did the parents consider that before handing their little ones over?

I think you are right that it's likely the parents stopped in much more often than we saw.

I believe the show was done for the ratings, not to deter teens from having babies.

Amy
Crunchy Domestic Goddess
BlogHers Act contributing editor

reality shows are never about reality

go.chris — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:06:12 -0500

I confess I watched the first show, although I am pretty anti-reality show and not a big fan of TV period. Insomnia can make you do strange things.

To me the whole thing was comical. For starters, what high schooler is going to be able to afford to live in such a house with a shiney new car in the driveway? Right there, you know that this set up is not "real". It is all about ratings.

What they want you to see is crying, pooping babies being called 'IT'. There are five couples and for a 24 hour period, each couple got maybe 6 minutes of camera time (there was a lot of set up in the first episode). So what the audience saw was what NBC felt would get the best ratings.

I don't know that it is fair to blame the parents. Legally there is no way NBC would allow anything bad to happen to the children. The parents could stop things at any time, and I suspect knocked on doors more than we saw. How is this any different than dropping off a baby at a daycare center or even with a babysitter or trusted friend or family? You never know how someone else is going to take care of a child. They at least had nannycams and on-site people for back up. There are countless stories of things going wrong with childcare providers, even ones that have been recommended, trained, and checked out.

As for motivation, I suspect some of it might be in it for their 15 minutes of fame. There were hints that a couple of the parents genuinely wanted these teens to see that babies are a full-time job that require you to give up your needs and develop patience. In the long run, I don't know that this will make people, especially teens, think before they have a child. There may be a few who decide to hold off, but I don't think this show is really something teens would want to watch.

Despite being raised by teen parents, I don't think this is something i would participate in. But as I said, I don't really understand the lure of reality tv. If we want it to stop, people need to stop watching.

--chris

{blog} http://www.onceupon.com/27floor/blogger.html
beyond the loop :: my adventures in boxes

The My Kids, My World Mindset

Diana — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:04:17 -0500

I think one of the main keys to unlocking this issue is the mindset so many mothers get sucked into; the mindset that our children must be our one, our only, our world. We go to work (whether outside the home or not - it's all work), we come home (or change modes), we do dinner and playtime (if we can squeeze it in), bathtime and bedtime and by that time we fall into bed ourselves (after cleaning the house, of course) and if we take time out for anything else the guilt quickly sets in.

I'm certainly not advocating leaving our children to fend for themselves or ignoring them entirely but we must let other mothers know that it's OK to take time for themselves. It's perfectly acceptable to take time to read or watch the news, relax, take a shower, talk to other mothers (or non-mothers!) and most importantly maintain a sense of themselves. We get so wrapped up in our kids and their needs that we lose ourselves and when we lose ourselves we've lost our voice, because how can one advocate for causes they're not even sure they support.

I know I'm not the only mom who has looked in the mirror and thought "Who is that? What happened to me?" I just hope that I can help this generation of moms be some of the last to do it. Because that day? Is a hard day to face.

When are we going to get it together?!

froggemom — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:58:26 -0500

Why don't mothers have a larger role in our political process, as a group? Why don't we organize to secure paid maternity leave, paid sick days, good and affordable child care, etc.? I guess because we're too busy and tired. But I also think that its because we are told by the media that we are in the midst of "Mommy Wars" and couldn't possibly understand and like each other. Another reason might be that we are too concerned with what our own children have and need, and don't think too much about other children and other women. Our culture and society is me-centered. We don't really think about people other than ourselves, except when they are on tv.

public nursing

MiriamAnton — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 18:05:49 -0500

I wonder if they have these discussions so much in other parts of the world (forgive me for lumping Canada in with the US here) but this issue seems so goofy to me. It's perfectly legal to lie topless on the beaches (and streets!) of New York, yet people get squeamish over the barely exposed nipple of a nursing mother??

I loved nursing so much that it's practically incentive for me to have another child. I nursed whenever and wherever I wanted. How people confuse this with exhibitionism or obscenity is beyond me. A hold over from our Puritan past perhaps? Moms who nurse in public are usually quite discreet. They typically cover up as much as possible without smothering the poor baby and tend not to overtly flash their nipples at the world. I don't remember any nasty looks or comments from my public nursing. But if rude on-lookers take issue I would just tell them not to look. Or how about "Sorry - I only have enough for one!"

In most states as far as I know, the law is on your side. My advice to those more timid with public nursing - find a quieter place when possible but do what makes you feel comfortable.

When baby is hungry and breast is full, nothing else matters.

TCMom — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:58:34 -0500

It never ever even DAWNED on me when breastfeeding my children that I could be offending someone. Consider that very self-involved of me but I guess it just didn't make sense. My baby was hungry and needed to be fed. We were all babies, we all got fed (breast or bottle, whatever) so doesn't logic follow that it wouldn't be a big deal if another being - one like YOU used to be - is being fed? Luckily, I was never hassled. Maybe b/c I had that look on my face like "What? Is my zipper down?" never thinking the issue was my boob being out. Or more often it was probably the look of "I am running on 2 hours total sleep, I am hugely engorged, this baby is starving and stressed and not quite latched on - DON'T CROSS ME." And they didn't, for their own safety. I really could care less about offending anyone, I was trying to nourish a life, you know?

A great point about actually having to state permission seems like it was something that wasn't ever there in the first place. Go Toronto with the best intentions but I can't believe we need a sign. I sure as hell didn't.

Caroline

http://morningsidemom.wordpress.com/

Breasts have many roles

Suzanne Reisman — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:36:25 -0500

I'm not disagreeing with you at all that breasts are meant to feed babies, but sometimes I think we should honor all the great things breasts do. They are there for sexual pleasure, when a woman decides that she wants them touched. They also are aesthetically pleasing. And, of course, when a woman has a baby, they are there for feeding. I just like to honor the whole thing, especially because calling out one of their functions as more valuable than the rest sort of indicates that those of us who aren't breastfeeding (for whatever reason, including that we don't have babies) don't have boobs that count. And I think boobs are too useful for that. :)

But definitely, feed away when the baby is hungry! That is one of the great things that boobs are there for.

Suzanne Reisman, Contributing Editor - Feminism & Gender
Campaign for Unshaved Snatch (CUSS) & Other Rants

They started out FUNCTIONAL!

AnissaMayhew — Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:33:44 -0500

I nervously nursed my first child, casually nursed my second and by my third I was like a drunken girls gone wild video. But I do remember being terribly self conscious, feeling like everyone was looking at the lady with her boob hanging out in the food court of the mall. But, in all seriousness, when my baby cried, when he was hungry, everyone else could just BITE ME!

When did we forget, in the grand scheme of media, that breasts are not merely ornamental objects, they are not funbags of joy, as my husband calls them. They are meant to nurse our young, to provide the God given milk that is best for them and their bodies.

If I am nice enough to use a blanket to keep my nipples from poking your eye out, be kind enough to not bother me with your judgement that I am doing something "dirty" in public.

Anissa Mayhew