BlogHer - Research, Academia & Education - Comments

The Implications Has Got Me Nervous

Gena Haskett — Wed, 14 May 2008 07:12:06 -0500

When I get time I will post more of his speech on my blog. If PR/media people are some of the folks that are setting the tone for national conversations no wonder we are in the trouble we find ourselves.

If a basic human instinct is routinely manipulated as a means of demonstrating power/control then how do we connect with other groups to say you have been chumped?

The good news is that PR/media power can only extend so far, there is a limit where the society will set up and say "No, this is not acceptable."

Wish this could have happened seven years ago.

Gena - Out On The Stoop

Gena, you bring me to reflection

Kim Pearson — Wed, 14 May 2008 05:51:30 -0500

First, yes, indeed to what T said.

Second, I am reminded of Toni Morrison's amazing and controversial 1993 Nobel prize speech, which is worth reading in its entirety, but which says, in part:

Oppressive language does
more than represent violence; it is violence; does more than
represent the limits of knowledge; it limits knowledge. Whether
it is obscuring state language or the faux-language of mindless
media; whether it is the proud but calcified language of the
academy or the commodity driven language of science; whether it
is the malign language of law-without-ethics, or language
designed for the estrangement of minorities, hiding its racist
plunder in its literary cheek - it must be rejected, altered and
exposed. It is the language that drinks blood, laps
vulnerabilities, tucks its fascist boots under crinolines of
respectability and patriotism as it moves relentlessly toward the
bottom line and the bottomed-out mind. Sexist language, racist
language, theistic language - all are typical of the policing
languages of mastery, and cannot, do not permit new knowledge or
encourage the mutual exchange of ideas.

Thanks for the dimension that you have contributed to this discussion.

Kim
BlogHer Contributing Editor|Professor Kim|

love that!

smartchica47 — Mon, 12 May 2008 23:54:21 -0500

I love the idea of the mid-quarter (or in my university's case, mid-semester) review! I love even more the idea of teaching in a place where faculty actually use such a tool! On my campus, I imagine that relatively few faculty would take advantage of such an option, except perhaps junior faculty trying to make a good impression for tenure. But I will be asking our Center for Teaching and Learning about this nonetheless...

My University just moved to doing online evaluations - students can't access their grades through the online system until they complete the course evaluation (I assume that's supposed to increase the response rate). I believe we can learn a lot from evaluations but as with many things that might improve teaching, there is a lot of self-selection - that is, teachers who care about being good teachers will use whatever information they can to improve their teaching while those who don't really care about being good teachers will just come up with reasons why the information isn't worth anything...

Jenn

http://economicsforteachers.blogspot.com

Teaching credentials don't

Mamalogues — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:12:26 -0500

Thank you for this post.

Teaching credentials don't guarantee academic success and I think we've seen
that within public schools. My school district lost its accreditation this year
because of mismanagement and dwindling academic results. Were CA actually
concerned with academic success they'd realize the indisputable successes of
homeschooled students, their phenomenal test scores, etc. But it's not and to
pretend such is an insult to everyone's intelligence. It's about control, big
government, a dissipation of civil liberties, and another dig at parental
rights. Our children are not, nor should they be, wards of the state. When my
government can run the DMV and USPO efficiently, spend its money properly, then
perhaps they'll have a shred of validity on this subject.

I homeschool and have done so since my 7-year-old was in pre-school. My
children excel academically and I am wholly devoted to their education. I wish
our public school district was so devoted. I wish other public school districts
were as devoted. Until that time, they have NO BUSINESS butting into family
matters and demanding that free people educate their children according to the
state's often corrupt system.

I am currently following a situation here in Missouri wherein our government is
attempting to use drivers' licenses to browbeat students into academic
submission. This entire circumstance positively enrages me.

Dana
Mamalogues.com

on KFTK 97.1 FM/Fox News Radio

reminds meof the old folk song

Mata H — Thu, 08 May 2008 17:13:04 -0500

by Tom Paxton called "The marvelous toy "

It went "zip" when it moved and "bop" when it stopped,
And "whirr" when it stood still.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool

enjoyed reading this.

susan mernit — Thu, 08 May 2008 14:42:25 -0500

Gena--

enjoyed this piece. fwap--great funny word.Not sure what female equivalent would sound like.
S

Susan Mernit, Susan Mernit's Blog

follow me on twitter: twitter/susanmernit

friendfeed: friendfeed.com/smernit

Comment Too Long for Blogher

BlondieChicago — Thu, 08 May 2008 12:14:43 -0500

Hello, ladies. It's Rita's sis here. I had a lot of thoughts about this, but I realized my comment was going to run waaaay too long for this forum. I wrote my response on my own blog if you care to see.

Rita and Kelly, I enjoyed this conversation very much. It got my brain cranking this morning!

www.talesfromclarkstreet.blogspot.com

That's the uncomfortable part: taking the feedback, right?

Rita Arens — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:47:18 -0500

I recently went to a feedback seminar at work. Someone said, "I want to learn how to take feedback without getting pissed off." I think you've nailed an important point -- it's important to listen to what was said instead of immediately figuring out your defense. It's hard to take the feedback without getting pissed off, whether it's about blowing a deadline or race.

I think that's the valuable part of my conversation with Kelly. There wasn't a whole lot said that I edited out except the name of the black blogger. I respect the blogger I approached, I don't know why she backed out, but that was her choice and she in no way asked to become the Black Blogger Representative of the World. It's not fair to introduce anything personal about her into this discussion except to say, hey, she was black, and she was writing about race. I think those two points are relevant to the discussion.

You could, however, just as easily say, why only one? Why only three Jewish people? Why only one mother of an adopted child of another race? Why, why, why? And you, as a reader, as a consumer (I hope) of this collection, have every right to that opinion. You have every right to ask why. In some ways, the answer doesn't matter.

Liz has been very close to the project, so she knows a lot about the struggle to get the anthology put together. I think her points ARE relevant. She asks equally valid questions. As we all ask our own questions, I think we're getting to the core of the discussion Kelly and I started. The whole discussion of race transcends any discussion of one mommyblogging anthology, but this discussion is important and should and will influence any future anthologies I personally put together. Whether or not this particular one was "right" or "wrong" is not as important as this discussion playing out now. I feel like this discussion is VERY important.

Surrender, Dorothy - When I was your age, we just let them ride in the back window.

Rita Arens is a contributing editor for BlogHer -- Mommy & Family.

Thank You Yvette

MSmith — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:42:05 -0500

Thank you Yvette for saying what I was thinking, but couldn't quite figure out how to say.

Megan
BlogHer Contributing Editor, TV/YouTube
Megan's Minute
Video Runway

"Both Ways"?

Yvette Perry — Thu, 08 May 2008 09:12:43 -0500

I have to repeat that I am not familiar with the anthology. I was responding to a pattern I saw in the conversation--the topic of which just happened to be about this anthology. And that pattern rang familiar to me as a frustration when trying to have honest conversations with White men and women.

That pattern is most simply this: At the invitation by a non-minority person or organization to please share your thoughts and feelings about X, a POC decides to open up and says, "Well, I felt bias/marginalization/lack of understanding/lack of representation when _________." Instead of the response being to explore that perception and look for solutions, it is for the non-minority person/organization to take a defensive pose: "Well, ________ was not biased/there was representation..."

Clearly, in the case of the conversation between these two women, there was more that was not apparent in the edited version, and their prior relationship and openness to moving forward means that they will continue the ongoing process of dialog.

Responding to your question: I wonder why you think diversity should work "both ways." Are White women/mommybloggers really so under-represented that they should be included in work by folks who really are under-represented? Again, I do not know enough about this specific topic, nor of the Mommyblogosphere in general to say.

I find it interesting that the some of the conversation about one POC's feelings of marginalization continues to focus on the perceived feelings, good intentions, character, etc of the non-POC. This is a familiar dynamic for many POC: the idea that there is no space for honest discussions of our feelings and experiences if it makes Whites feel ill at ease or uncomfortable about themselves.

As I said in another comment, these conversations cannot move forward unless folks are willing to work through their discomfort and defensiveness.

Six Impossible Things Before Breakfast

Does it work both ways?

itsonlyme — Wed, 07 May 2008 23:20:31 -0500

Kelly and Rita (and commenters), this is a fascinating discussion - thank you both for this interview. I've learned a lot, and I love the frank discussion surrounding it.

Yvette, I have to ask: if the anthology was being put together by a black mommy blogger, would you feel that, to maintain diversity, she should backfill if her white writer backed out? (assuming, of course, that she chose mostly black contributors in the first place)

Does diversity work both ways?

Speaking from my (white) perspective, I think that as long as the subject matter attracted me, and the stories resonated with me, I'd enjoy the book no matter what color the writer.

I do realize about myself, though, that if the book would be presented/marketed as a "black mommy blogger anthology" instead of as a "mommy blogger anthology" I'd be more likely to skip it. I'm not proud to say it, but I'm glad that this post has made me think about the diversity of what I read, and realize that it's fairly narrow.

Thanks Maria

Mom101 — Wed, 07 May 2008 19:25:48 -0500

Indeed the clarification is apt. I do feel like there is a cumulative effect of lots of people posting about feeling left out of the book. Not always in such thoughtful words as Kelly has done here.

However I do think in Yvette saying:

I want to point out that the strategy of not actively seeking out
diversity is part of what contributes to that kind of marginalization

to me, indicates that this is Rita's "strategy." It clearly was not which was my main point. Perhaps you didn't intend that comment to be about the book specifically. Apologies if I misinterpreted.

And certainly Yvette I in no way said that diversity was not a valid - and in fact the core - issue in the discussion. (Forgive my choice of the word "real" - I overuse it hopelessly.) I'm simply asking another question in return about what constitutes diversity.

Is there no diversity if there is no African-American voice? Is there no diversity if there is no Muslim voice? Is there no diversity if there is no lesbian voice? I think those are questions worth considering, as well as why including Asian, Latina, and various biracial bloggers somehow isn't enough. What is enough? Is there ever enough?

I suppose diversity is in the eyes of the individual who is feeling marginalized and that makes it very difficult to pinpoint.

Mom-101

We Can't Fwap - We're Gonadically Challenged...

Gena Haskett — Wed, 07 May 2008 17:35:45 -0500

Three separate organs are involved. We ain't got two out of the three. Or four depending on how you are counting.

We can do a bunch of things, just not have the ability to make the fwap sound.

Parts is parts.

Gena - Out On The Stoop

Thanks and a hunch

Maria Niles — Wed, 07 May 2008 16:22:24 -0500

Thank you, Yvette to adding to this excellent conversation (huge thanks to Rita and Kelly for starting it) by asking questions and raising issues that might cause some discomfort but are important. Until we discuss rather than ignore the hard stuff we will never make progress.

And, far be it from me to put words into Liz's (Mom 101) mouth but I suspect the "beating" she is referring to is not the conversation here but rather to some of the incredibly nasty, jealous and hurtful comments Rita has received at her own blog and have been posted by other bloggers elsewhere.

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anti-fwap

Mata H — Wed, 07 May 2008 16:07:16 -0500

Fwapping? Do I make that sound? Nay, no, never would my nether girls fwap

They might flap, flap or perhaps they could thrum thrum thrum but fwap? Nope. I suspect they even have moments when in their own unique language, at a pitch even a dog cannot hear, that they yodel.

~~ Contributing Editor, Mata H. also blogs right along at Time's Fool