BlogHer - Sex & Relationships - Comments

What's in it for him?

Bill Cammack — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:19:04 -0500

Excellent topic, Liz.

Part of "The Game" is figuring out why your current SO selected you in the first place. It's possible that he wanted someone to compromise with. It's possible that he wanted his dinner on the table when he got home from work and a woman he likes to get physical with. Depending on what his reasons are for spending time with you, he will or will not have any incentive or intention on compromising with anything you say or think.

In any relationship or negotiation, the person that's not willing to walk away from the table is at a DISTINCT disadvantage. If you want to be in a relationship more than you want to get your own way, you're stuck, so take it like a woman and grin and bear it. If doing what you want to do when you want to do it is more important, prepare for relationships to end and begin based on whether a guy feels like doing what you want him to do.

You can't really have *both*, unless you carefully screened the guy ahead of time to figure out whether he has your best interests at heart before you started the relationship.

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

My turn, your turn

rebellious thinker — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:47:52 -0500

I wrote a blog posst a while back about "compromising myself out of a marriage." I think the key is not in compromising but in taking turns. Really, why can't I get what I want sometimes, unadulterated with someone else's desires, and the same for him? I hated that I couldn't even decide where we would eat out, it had to be a compromise. And as you have all been saying, the woman doesn't so much compromise as give in; and the man doesn't so much compromise as stand his ground. I'm divorced because at a certain point I had been so totally diminished, knowing that I could never get what I want and know that it was valid, that I couldn't take it anymore.

Laura, www.RebelliousThoughtsofaWoman.com

clarification

Liz Rizzo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:46:18 -0500

My mom was a stay-at-home mom, not me! :)

Hm... I don't know if it's nurturing per se. I think many people manage to be nurturing without struggling to find the balance. I wouldn't say it's nurturing per se, but rather, this lesson of self-sacrifice and lesser importance and service to everyone but yourself.

I wonder how the people who were raised in a more egalitarian setting are on this issue.

Liz Rizzo

I blog at Everyday Goddess.

backtracking

Liz Rizzo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:39:16 -0500

Is better than the alternative, right? I do sometimes feel silly, but at least I'm seeing it and fixing it.

I like how you're communicating; that makes a lot of sense.

Liz Rizzo

I blog at Everyday Goddess.

Exactly

Liz Rizzo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:37:21 -0500

It's amazing to me that this isn't an issue for me in my working life, but has become such a struggle in my personal life. I, too, am hoping that increased recognition of when I'm doing it will lead to getting it right in the first place more often.

Liz Rizzo

I blog at Everyday Goddess.

A Journey

gesterline — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:47:44 -0500

I believe one of a woman's best attributes, nuturing, is often one of the biggest stumbling blocks. Nurturing, making someone feel loved unconditionally, is a gift. Drawing the line between nuturing and losing yourself seems to be a life journey.

I was married for 21 years choosing to be a stay at home Mom as you have. When the marriage fell apart I discovered that I had totally lost myself in my ex. After spending alot of time beating myself up over this I spent time learning who I was and loving me for me. It is still a journey but I am in a wonderful relationship where my fiancee supports my journey as I am his. There are bumps but it sure is nice.

Liz, you are not alone. Finding the balance is something we are all looking for.

Genny

www.connectionsforwomen.com

Constant effort

smartchica47 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:19:35 -0500

If you find a woman who doesn't struggle with this, please let me know! I've done the backtracking thing many times and I often feel silly when I'm doing it but I've never regreted it afterward. Previous boyfriends haven't helped (i.e., they made me feel silly, and I ended up compromixing a LOT because I was afraid not to) but my current boyfriend is awesome about it - he has told me how much he appreciates that I tell him what I'm thinking, when I'm thinking it, instead of letting it build up inside. And him being that supportive makes it easier to express my needs upfront. I've also tried to find ways to let him know that I'm compromising without *saying* it that directly - that is, to compromise graciously but not SO graciously that he thinks I truly don't care. Sometimes that means I say things like, "Well, my 1st choice would be X, but if that doesn't work for you, I'm perfectly OK with doing Y." Again, it helps that he appreciates when he knows I'm compromising, and he is willing to compromise a lot too - I think part of the problem I've had in the past was not only being hesitant to express myself but feeling resentful because I felt like the other person was never compromising and it was always ME.

At the same time, this relationship is relatively new and I worry a lot about what will happen in the future, as we encounter more issues that we both have strong opinions about. I want to believe that we'll be able to talk it out so neither of us feels like we're compromising more or giving up anything TRULY important to us, but who knows...

Jenn

http://quirkyeconomist.blogspot.com

Wish I could help...

tjsmith — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 10:49:17 -0500

But I gotta tell ya, this has been a huge issue for me in relationships. In my work, I have no trouble with boundaries and expressing myself when they're in danger of being crossed. In my personal life, however, I am jello. I've been married twice and have consistently failed to find a balance between my early training (take care of everyone, make everything right for everyone, keep everyone happy, don't upset anyone, my needs are secondary and if I can just accomplish this everything will be peachy) and the realities of today such as: my career is as demanding as anyone elses, I bring home the bacon too, it's okay to be tired and ask others in the household to help out, labor at home should be shared labor and todays dual income relationships require the players to work things out in non-traditional ways.

The result of the conflict is always pent up frustration on my part, because I also have trouble communicating since I was taught that complaining is selfish and whiney. I have spent the greater part of the last year learning to understand my part in this and all I can hope for at this stage is that recognition really is the first step on the road to recovery.

TJ Smith

www.working-with-women.com

I just figure I know I'm

abgirl — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:49:41 -0500

I just figure I know I'm going to be with my partner forever, so I may as well throw a party, invite my friends and family and celebrate it because it'd be fun. If you don't feel marriage is for you, I wouldn't argue with you. But just because two people are married does not mean they're only together because they *have* to be. Not to mention that even if you only live together without being married, your lives still become entangled with each other's and it doesn't make the decision to end the relationship any easier. My friend's parents were unmarried and decided to split up after 20 odd years together. It was just as messy as any divorce I've seen. Their lives were still entangled with one another's. Sure, the kids complicated things, but they also had to fight over finances and the stuff they had bought together, etc. And it was certainly just as emotional as if they were married--how does it not hurt not to end a 20-year relationship? It's the commitment that complicates things, not the ring or the piece of paper.

I didn't think I would ever want to get married until my partner started hinting at it. I still think I'd be just as happy staying with him unmarried if that's what he wanted, but I like the idea of marriage. For one, it's a social thing. Getting our family and friends together to celebrate how much we love each other just seems...nice. And my family, for cultural reasons would prefer me to be married (as opposed to just living with someone). I'd be just as committed to my partner either way, so why not?

Actually her fame is based

abgirl — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 01:52:34 -0500

Actually her fame is based in large part on her sex appeal to men and a sex tape she was in with a man. Feminist icon she is not.

You're totally right about the show. The weird thing is of course it's mainly women that watch it. I hate making generalizations but we all just love to bring each other down and watch each other be exploited. The harshest critics of women are usually other women.

Now That You Mention It...

Bill Cammack — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:18:15 -0500

hahaha I wasn't going to bring that up at all, but you're absolutely right, AB.. Paris Hilton depends on EVERYTHING from a man.

A) Her father is rich and also has a lot of influence and power.

B) Because of her father's influence and power, he was able to woo a very attractive female and have kids with her.

Therefore, Paris owes her LOOKS as well as her financial foundation to her father... a man. Without her looks, she wouldn't be a model. Without the family's money and influence, even WITH looks, she might not have been considered for modeling, so her achievements are a derivative of her origin.

Not to take anything away from her, but she has had to climb to the 100th floor from the 99th floor, when regular people have to start on the ground level.

As far as bachelor parties, that's the whole idea... One last fling before a guy swears in a church that he's only going to have sex with his wife until he's dead. Therefore, bachelors are extended carte blanche to do whatever they want to do at their last party, which is why strippers and actual hookers are often procured for the event.

Unfortunately, the women involved in these scenarios are seen as easily exploitable, or "easy" for short.

The problem is that reality shows have writers. I wouldn't be surprised if someone else was coming up with these scenarios, because this one is backwards. It doesn't make any sense that Paris Hilton wouldn't want a friend that "gets around" if you look at who she hangs out with IRL, according to the tabloids. It seems to me that this contest was something set up by the writers as a fun way to exploit women, which has nothing to do with actually becoming a friend of Paris Hilton.

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

Thanks for the info, AV.

Bill Cammack — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:03:35 -0500

Thanks for the info, AV. :) I didn't know that y'all had boosted your sexual peak from 35 to 40. I'll keep that in mind! ;)

I think the concept of a "Cougar" is good for women, in general. It's a stereotype, for sure, however, it's a strong one as opposed to the usual weak and dependent stereotypes they make up for women. The position is that y'all have your own money, your own careers, are mentally and emotionally stable, and are NOW looking to augment your lives with Good Times! :D

Everything else has y'all dependent on some situation other than what YOU really want to do. Do it for your boyfriend. Do it for your husband. Do it for your kids. The concept of "Do it for YOU, because you deserve to reward yourself for setting yourself up properly in life to make your own decisions" is really healthy for women, IMO.

Having said that, there's a difference between the psychology of the situation and the implementation in the media. When I was in HS, we had a substitute teacher for French. She was FOOOIIIYYNNNEEE!!! I mean, MAN! :D .. Incredibly sexy woman. So much so that obviously, I haven't forgotten about her to this very day, haha. Unfortunately, that's the media's idea of a Cougar.. Even though she's much older, by some anomaly she's still rather sexy and due to some mental malfunction or deviation from the norm, she's as horny NOW as she was as when she was in college.

The obvious problem there for women is that Cougars become another fetish category, also known as M.I.L.F.s. The entire underlying process of a woman making her own way in life and getting to the point where she's having a good time doing what she wants to do WHEN she wants to do it is thrown out the window. The focus becomes on the lucky guys that get to screw a FINE older woman while she pays for everything, as opposed to the woman who has finally MADE IT and gets to choose who she dates or has sex with because she's got it like that.

So.. Yeah, I think the concept of the Cougar is liberating for women, because it gives y'all something to aspire to other than getting married and having and raising kids. The spectre of the "Old Maid" begins to fade away in your mind when you realize there are more (and better) options for women over the age of 26...

~ Bill
I blog at billcammack.com

Paris: "I'm a strong woman

abgirl — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:04:55 -0500

Paris: "I'm a strong woman who doesn't depend on a man for anything."

Her father is Richard Hilton. He's a man and she can pretty much thank him for the fact that anyone pays attention to her at all.

To be fair, I think the fact that that bachelor wasn't chastised the way the girl who kissed him was is not necessarily because of a double standard but because the show is about the women on it. Most people watching will still judge that bachelor. I'm not saying that there is no double standard, of course.

I absolutely agree. Age is

abgirl — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:55:06 -0500

I absolutely agree. Age is just one of many different variables in a person. We're all adults here, there's nothing wrong with being with someone younger/older than you, in and of itself.

I hate it when people say things like "it probably won't work out" and think this somehow proves that it's wrong. Well, most relationships "probably won't work out". Who's to say, if a relationship between an older person and a younger person ends, that it's because of the age difference? It could be any number of things.

Generally, I don't think

abgirl — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:37:11 -0500

Generally, I don't think it's good to promote casual sex or sexual stereotypes. But as far as age differences in relationships, I can't see that it matters as long as both partners are adults, and neither is being exploited. My boyfriend is 12 years older than me and the only time age has ever been even a slight issue was when some members of my family were somewhat uncomfortable with it. I don't understand what could be ineherently wrong about two adults who happen to be of different ages entering into a relationship. The worst that happens is that it doesn't work out and you get hurt, and that's true of any relationship.

Using the term cougar in terms of a woman who pursues many different partners to use solely for sex, I don't care what age you are or what gender you are but I have a problem with that. I guess I'm old fashioned and I don't think promiscuity is a good thing. To me there's nothing "liberating" about viewing people as sexual objects. I don't care that "men have been doing it for years" and I don't think that's any reason for women to be doing it now. As Chuck Klosterman pointed out in an essay about "Sex and the City," what exactly is feminist about women imitating the most disgusting parts of traditional male behaviour?