BlogHer - school - Comments

I'm skipping the farmers market today

Denise — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 07:16:47 -0500

I have a ton of work to do. I pulled down my blog last week because it was bugging me, and now it's bugging me because it's not there. TW ran over my foot with the wheelchair twice yesterday, with her mother in it. I think I'm too tired, too stressed and too busy for the Farmers Market/Breakfast/Assisted Living visit today even though we are also running out of summer and I'll be longing for Farmers Market Sundays for months on end.

~Denise
BlogHer Community Manager

Flamingo House Happenings

Continuous improvement and to always rise higher is GOOD!

bigqueue — Fri, 11 Sep 2009 00:11:51 -0500

The idea of striving for continuous improvement is one that everyone should embrace. There seems to be way too much "if it feels good, do it" going around for my taste. (we seem to settle for the lowest common denominator....the world will NOT move forward if each of us doesn't work to shoulder our portion of it all)

Having said that...being humble, being open to helping others and embracing difference is just as important because what we are talking about is making oneself better for the betterment of the whole. (not just ourselves)

Encouragement to be better and better is great......again, not for the sake of crushing or rising above others, but for continuous self improvement. Paying for grades is a great feedback mechanism and I think also gives kids a healthier view and respect for money which I think is needed....i.e: in life they will make more money if they put in the effort and work hard. (yes, life is not that straight forward, nor is compensation so tightly tied to value....but building good work and money higiene is a good thing)

I have two daughters who are now 23 and 21 years old....my wife and I always encouraged them to work hard, and constantly challange and improve themselves. We paid them for grades because we wanted them to see a benefit to getting them that was beyond our happiness and approval. In fact, I didn't want them to find their motivation for higher grades in the fact that they did "better" and felt they had "crushed" someone else. It was more of a competition against themselves as we always tried to convince them to be humble and helpful to those around them rather than compete with and in any way feel "superior" to them. Reward of money was a carrot. (and it also worked the other way....they got a respect for money too...money equates to hard work, and visa versa.)

We also played other games with compound interest earned in order to enstill the value of saving, but that is a talk for another time.

So I like your approach...I like the idea of striving to better oneself, and the carrot of money for grades not only does that, but rienforces the idea that pay will come if I work hard.

-Quentin

This just rubs me the wrong way...

Kathy Sena — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:09:11 -0500

There's just something about paying for grades that strikes me as wrong. It seems like kids should be encouraged to do well in school because it's the right thing to do. We should be encouraging the love of learning. If payment is necessary, that's like saying learning is boring and you would only expect a kid to do it for the bucks.

Paying for grades seems like bribery, like offering candy in a grocery store for good behavior. Am I old-fashioned? Maybe. I appreciate the comparison with the real world. But I still have to vote no.

When I was in high shool my

midnightbliss — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:53:55 -0500

When I was in high shool my parents used to give me a hundred pesos or at that time equivalent to 4 dollars for every highest score in my exams, and it did motivated me to do good with my exams.

I would have preferred a sliding scale

Flightkeeper — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:49:51 -0500

Five dollars for an A, and anything less would be $1. Nothing for C and below.

(My blogs are http://flightkeeper.blogspot.com and http://cutefuncool.blogspot.com)

Persistence

moonfever0 — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:41:22 -0500

When perfectionism leads to giving up, that is definitely a problem. Teaching patience and persistence is also important. My son also gets frustrated when he doesn't get stuff right away. But I always remind him that life is full of practice. Practice with persistence is how he learned to play the piano (although still with many tantrums). These are traits that fall outside of paying for grades, which is just a reward system. With the piano, the reward is obvious, being able to play a piece of music. With grades, it isn't so obvious.

Teaching kids that they can't be perfect at everything is a hard lesson, and can be tough to balance against rewarding them for good grades. It should be emphasized that not getting the reward is not a failure, it is simply not getting the reward this time. There's always trying harder for next time. And if that doesn't work, then the reward system needs to be re-evaluated.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

Nobody's Perfect

Mammakaze — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:13:46 -0500

Okay this is lame but I'm going to quote the Hannah Montana song: "Nobody's perfect, you gotta work it, again and again til you get it right."

Know why I like those lyrics? My daughter is an only child and a perfectionist. From the time she was a toddler, if she didn't get something right the first time she would become horribly frustrated. I know she got it from me. It's some genetic thing. When I was a kid if I wasn't good at something right away, I'd give it up. And I missed out on a lot as a result. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized I didn't have to be good at everything to enjoy it. (Tennis for example).

Now it is my goal to encourage my daughter to do her best BUT also to let her know that nobody is good at everything. And that if there's something she wants to do but can't, she must work hard at it.

Perfectionism can be good to a point. But if you've got a kid who already beats themselves up about their perceived failures, then paying for good grades can certainly exacerbate the problem.

In the end, it's up to a parent to KNOW their kid well enough to know what works and what doesn't in the way of teaching and life lessons. Otherwise, you're not only looking at college tuition but therapy bills.

www.mammakaze.com

Perfectionism

moonfever0 — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 07:17:12 -0500

Thanks for your concerns about perfectionism, Alyssa. A lot of first born children (my son and myself included) often suffer from perfectionism regardless of what reward system is put in place. He is even worse when it comes to playing the piano. I have been trying to teach him that less than perfectly played music is still music and it's not all about hitting the right notes at the right time. I am well aware of the pitfalls of perfectionism so I strive for balance in my life and try to model that for my children.

But if a system is in place and the child just wants to work around it, then it is obviously not working. Recognizing what motivates children is important. Underachievement is a big downfall during the school years. It makes it much harder to climb out later in life. Sometimes kids need a motivator to do their best because they just don't see the point when they are young.

Angela at mommy bytes
BlogHer Contributing Editor in Mommy & Family Cribsheet

Okay, but....

alyssaroyse — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 02:15:22 -0500

I agree with you on entitlement, for sure. And I even agree with you on the similarities between paying for grades and corporate America. But I have to raise a couple red flags.

1. Your son beats himself up when he doesn't get a perfect score? That's a little scary to me. Perfection, for the most part, is unattainable. Sure, you can get a perfect score on a test, but that's about the only thing in life for which that's true. Setting up the expectation that PERFECTION is the only thing that is truly valuable, well, that means anything less is valueless. Like a less than perfect body. A less than perfect home. A less than perfect relationship. A less than perfect, um, life. I am CERTAIN that's not what you mean to do, but our psyches make these bizarrely direct and clear conclusions through the murky realities that are our imperfect lives. That fear - and loathing - of less than perfection can be devestating.

2. This also sets up a very black and white set of standards from which to look at other people. "It's not perfect" can become a great excuse to NOT do all sorts of things, or accept all sorts of people.

3. What if his - or anyone else's - value system is different? My parents did this with me too. Slightly differently. I got 100 for an A, 50 for a B, nothing for a C, owed 50 for a D and owed 100 for an F. I was determined to be a straight C student so that I could opt out of their game. It was easier than explaining to them why their game offended and hurt me. Of course, they also had a "Shoe Monster" that would "eat" my shoes if I left them lying around, only to regurgitate them a month later. That taught me that I needed to have 6 pairs of each type of shoe, a habit that I kept.

The simple truth is that no one is perfect. And certainly not at all things. A kid who is great at math may suck at writing. And it is simply not healthy to expect them to be good at everything, much less perfect. Expect them to try their hardest, all the time? YOU BET.

But it is equally important to teach kids how to fail, and fail without losing self-esteem. To learn from their failures, what they're good at, what they should do, what they want to do, what makes them happy. And converesly, what not to do and what makes them unhappy.

The closest that any of us come to living a perfect life is when we figure out who we truly are, for oursleves, and live a life that jibes with that. That is a far greater reward. And THAT is where self-esteem comes from - knowing ourselves well enough to create a life in which we have, and feel that we are of, great value.

____________

Alyssa Royse

Just Cause It: A Web Site To Save The World

READ the magazine http://www.zinio.com/justcause

This gets complicated...

TiredMama — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:21:51 -0500

I have three kids, two who don't have to work at school and do extrememly well and one who works like crazy and does um, okayish.

One night we celebrated a great test mark, after weeks of studying by the one who struggles. We celebrated by going out to dinner and letting him pick the place.

Then, his sister complained that she got those kinda marks ALL the time and we never celebrated her success. Yikes! She was right.

So, now we pay whoever of my three makes the honour roll at the end of the school year. The money goes into their bank account for college and we still from time to time celebrate in smaller ways for the one who works harder but doesn't get the results. He doesn't make the honor roll like his siblings do but I still want to encourage him and reward his hard work. I'm hoping this way things are a little more fair.

I think you have to do whatever works for you and your family - it's tough being a parent.

http://www.TiredMama.com

No cash for grades here

AmberS — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 00:25:30 -0500

I don't pay for grades. I also don't pay for chores. I actually avoid rewards and punishments on general principle. I want my kids to be intrinsically motivated, not to do things for some external and unrelated benefit. Plus I don't really believe that giving a kid money actually changes their approach to schooling. I would highly doubt a kid would go from struggling to succeeding at the prospect of $50. At least, it wouldn't have influenced me as a kid. I got straight As, and never saw a penny for them.

~ Amber

www.strocel.com

I grew up with this...

CtrlAltTabby — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:44:09 -0500

but won't do it. Our grade payment system was unfair; it was based on fluctuations from the previous report card. We were docked for partial drops (so A to A-) but not rewarded for partial increases (B to B+), so it was stacked in favor of my mother. That and I typically had good grades compared to my sister, so it was stacked against me.

Of course, my daughter's attending a Waldorf school, so she shouldn't see grades till high school.

I haven't done this

LadyT — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:31:52 -0500

Call me scrooge mcduck, but I didn't pay my kids for good grades because I expected it of them. I knew they were smart and could do the work and if they didn't, it was because they didn't choose to. They got an allowance for doing their chores, and grades were a chore just like bedrooms and kitchen duties. They got disciplined for bad grades, just like when they didn't do their housework or disobeyed. It worked for us, all three graduated from high school in the top 10% of their class and went on to better things.

I have done this with one of

AllThingsToNoOne — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 10:49:12 -0500

I have done this with one of my children, but only at the high school level and only if they were willing to show that they knew that their grades would eventually impact their future and had some plans about what they wanted to do with their lives.

I felt that it was appropriate to reward my youngest in this way after a terrible 9th grade year. He made all A's in 10th grade and was on the Honor Roll for all four quarters. He has severe ADHD and some other learning disabilities, so this was a great accomplishment for him. I could tell that he was striving for acheivement for himself and his sense of self-worth, not just for the money.

AllThingsToNoOne

Huh

whymomdrinksrum — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 09:54:08 -0500

Yeah I'm back and forth on this issue as well.

We get paid to work (usually) so I believe in that. However? I don't pay for chores or work around the house because I feel they should do their part as a part of our family. They WON'T get paid to do their own dishes when they are adults, so paying them now makes little sense to me.

I don't pay for good grades BUT I do reward if I've set a mandate and they meet it. If I tell my daughter that her C- in math BETTER move up by the next reporting period, and she works hard enough to do that, then at the end of the year I'll either buy her something she's wanted, or take her out for a meal. Also, part of my reasoning for not paying for the grades is that my son is in modified learning due to his difficulties, so his grades are not measured in the same way and he really struggles. I don't need him feeling any more inadequate than he already does.

I also gave the kids the option of getting an allowance (based on their behaviour) after which they would have to save up for the things they would like, or they can continue without and I would continue to buy those things. They chose no allowance. They aren't dumb.

Holly

http://whymomdrinksrum.blogspot.com/

Conventional motherhood? You bet it includes rum!