BlogHer - mid-life crisis - Comments

She's a writer

backyarder1 — Sun, 09 Aug 2009 19:38:46 -0500

I think a lot of people are missing the point with Laura Munson's essay.

Laura is a writer. She took an experience that was happening in her life and she wrote it down in a very excellent, excellent style. She may have embellished. I would say that most good writers to that. No, all good writers do that.

If she had written "My husband said he didn't love me. What a jerk! I'm just going to get on with my life and see if he comes back." Well, what would that have gotten her? She wrote a deeply poignant essay that has helped kick off her writing career. I'm not saying that the thing with her husband didn't happen. I know that it did. But she created an emotional essay out of it.

Look at the comments on Laura's website. Everyone is asking her marital advice now. I'm pretty sure Laura doesn't want to be a counselor. SHE WANTS TO BE A WRITER. And she is a darn good one!

I, for one, can't wait to read more of her stuff. Not for marital advice. Whatever she does in her marriage doesn't have anything to do with my marriage. But I love her prose. I love her writing style. I want to read more!

Betsy S. Franz

One more explaination of ...Nuts!

erleclaire — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:26:46 -0500

Estelle here again,

I had indicated that I was a Transwoman. That ordeal has allowed me to see life from perspectives that few others can understand, let alone appreciate. I might leave some notes on discoveries I have made in life:

Little boys never grow up, they just go away and hide to come out again on a later day! (Little girls can do this too, but usually they are forced to face things like motherhood and the fact that they are not so equal in the structure of things – So dreams get broken early in life) A guy has to fit an image that is handed down by a long line of liars and fakes, yet that is the framework that all men must attain. If they fail in that, … and they will, then they are faced with accepting their diminished state, looking for the true objectives of true manhood, or inflicting their anger on everything around them. So, the little boys do not make good husbands or fathers, they are simply children that have gotten bigger, but not more mature. Some times a relationship is strong enough to weather the trials of growing and unexpected change, usually though they are not. The guy discovers that his little lady is not his mother, nor does she wan to be. The guy also finds that the woman he married no longer sees him as a shining white knight, but a loser who is falling very short of the person she thought she wanted. He is not happy with anything, and most importantly he is not happy with himself. That was my greatest discovery! Little Boys!

Little girls leave their daddies and find another person to fulfill the needs for security and the necessities desired. They were fed a false set of dreams, even though right before them they had their mother as an example of reality. Dirty dishes, dirty diapers, and men's dirty underwear strewn about is the model most little girls are raised within. Yet, that does not kill the dream? It takes the humdrum and sheer magnitude of loneliness to shake the little girl out of her slumber and fading dreams of being the princess. So the little girls are shoved into accepting the role of being the stable element in the relationship. They have to, because the husband is off fighting to find himself with no mommy, or purpose that makes sense. So, now "little woman" (See how the terms control?) is no longer able to play mother to the husband, nor is she the "pretty thing" that he first was testosterone addicted. She has changed, he has not, but needs to. The two are no longer what they were, and unless they strive to find common ground and both move to that place, it is over. What is amazing is that the wife grows to recognize the incongruence of it all, yet as the little girl holds on anyway. Little Girls!

What I have learned is that I can love someone, because I love "THEM." Or I can love someone, because I love "ME." It is simply accepting someone as they are, or not. I was in a relationship where my wife held on way past the point of sensibility while I was trying to be what I was not. I couldn't be, and the Bioneurological and Chromosomal war within me was a losing battle that I inflicted upon everyone and everything around me. The world wanted me to fit into a little box which I could not fit. My wife tried, I tried, and yet it resolved down to being me, or being a lie. I had to change, and it was over. Now as the person that I am comfortable with and not at war with, I understand her dilemma and how my quandary affected everything. So, all of us come to love another because they simply are lovable and we love just like they are, or we love them because we want them to be what we want them to be. In the process of relationship everything gets wrapped and tied in knots that are hard to understand. Yet, it is a matter of whether the little boy and little girl can grow up together, or apart. Too simple? I know, but then marriage and all of the baggage and problems are part of the things which define us. Point! If say your spouse is an alcoholic, you can love the alcoholic or not. If the alcoholic wants to remain so, then the relationship is bound to that metric, or the relationship will end. If the alcoholic wants to recover, then there is the sharing of a dream and the force to love each other to attain that dream. The relationship has a reason to continue. No not simple, but in my ordeal I had to decide who was getting hurt, who was suffering, and what to do about it. Ultimately, we both decided that neither would get their dream, or wish to continue the affair. Since then, in my true gender role, I find that if I should love someone, I should be happy solely for my experience and not reliant upon another's having similar devotion. It is my intimate heartfelt emotional thing to share and really has not obligation from anyone else as to its validity or virtue. If I love, then "I" love.

In the story, I am not sure love ever entered in, or was really expressed. The stories events it is clear that they had not come to any understanding, and were still just reactively acting against each other. Albeit the wife acting passively against a crude force. The little boy wants to play with his toys. The little girl wants him to play with her, but he is nasty. Little girl goes about her girly things ignoring the little boy. Little boy loses interest in his toys and wants the little girl again. Testosterone and estrogen find equilibrium and the bed is warm again. Frankly, it was no way to live!

I Can Relate.. Sort Of

MrsCyclops — Fri, 07 Aug 2009 05:18:16 -0500

Having been at that point where you have to decide "Do I keep fighting for my marriage or do I just let it all fall to pieces?" I can honestly say that there is no snoball's chance in hell that I would allow my spouse to run around, walk all over me and our child just because he couldn't handle some life stress. I know this, because I did sort of try that once and I quickly realized that no amount of love, support and space was ever going to make him happy. Sometimes, there just isn't a fix.

Was it about me? No - I don't think so anyways. In fact, we're divorced now and he is very much in the same place - mentally, emotionally, intellectually. I tried a lot of different approaches - I gave him space, I ignored him, I gave him extra attention, I tried talking things out more, I offered myself up to him in every way I could think of and none of it worked. It was really about him and I never figured out what his problem was.

I'm sure the actions described in the column work for someone. I don't doubt that there are some life problems that can be worked out and repaired. I know that some marriages are worth fighting for - mine just wasn't one of them. I don't regret it at all. I'm glad I fought as hard and as long as I did, but if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't.

I blog at ShortFatCyclops.com

Conflicted on this

AmberS — Wed, 05 Aug 2009 17:56:09 -0500

I am really conflicted about this one. On the one hand I know from experience that things can seem really, really awful and you can want to give up. But if you stick with it, you are often really happy you did. I have never been in a situation remotely close to Munson's, but I've been married long enough to have had the ups and downs and learned that sometimes you need to give someone space to work through the downs.

On the other hand, I would be pretty much unable to create this kind of emotional distance. And I don't think I would want to. I don't want to create an example for my children that says it's OK for Daddy to do whatever he wants and treat others badly, particularly his wife. That it's OK to disregard his marriage vows and throw a temper tantrum if he's going through a rough patch.

A follow-up would be interesting, but I wonder if it would be honest. Just like I wonder if this is. It certainly glosses over the rough patches. Which is fine, but then it's not really an expose, as you say.

~ Amber

www.strocel.com

I'd have made different choices...

theinadvertentgardener — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:48:18 -0500

...but I'm also not Munson, and no one knows what's at the heart of a marriage other than the two people involved, so it's really hard to take a stand one way or the other.

But I agree. A follow-up article would be great. I did feel like there was a bit of vagueness going on in the Modern Love piece that, well, begged more questions than it answered.

Still, it was brave of her to write it, and to invite exactly this debate, whether that invitation was intentional or not.

--- Genie, The Inadvertent Gardener

sheesh

LucyandJane — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 10:45:45 -0500

Not really sure what to say to this one. I'd like to see the follow up as well. Did this guy truly emerge from a legitimate crisis with a fresh perspective on life and family? Or did he cash in what Oprah once referred to as the "freebie?" Ugh. Personally, I've seen people come through similar situations, for the better, even when all seemed lost. Then again, I've also seen people cling to really shabby spouses for even shabbier reasons. I guess everyone has their own tolerance threshold.

Lucy Cooper

http://fourjugs.com

Makes perfect sense....Nuts

erleclaire — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:09:36 -0500

As a TransWoman I have seen insanity from both sides of the fence. In a union, too often, when one goes nuts, the other loses it too. They can recover or continue to break down, but the relationship is changed forever. Insanity can manifest in actions or inaction, yet it is always a response chosen and lived. The woman who silently accepts and ignores the cheating husband. The woman who explodes and discharges anger against a self absorbed husband. Occasionally they can learn to cry together and wipe each others tears away, but seldom in the flood of conflicting hormones does that happen. It really is a question of loving someone for who and what they are versus that which one may want them to be, i.e. Take it or leave it.

Or as we say pain is

Vita lingus — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 06:25:30 -0500

Or as we say pain is inevitable suffering is a choice based on ego ,,,She obviosly

made a choice to no longer suffer

Vita

I read it from a Buddhist perspective

BarbD — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 05:47:12 -0500

There are a couple of hints early in the article: Munson mentions having recently embraced "the end of suffering" and "exile [ing] the voices in my head that told me my personal happiness was only as good as my outward success, rooted in things that were often outside my control." This is language that's very familiar to me from my reading of Buddhist philosophy.

And consistent with my understanding of what Buddhism teaches. Feelings arise and fall away; I've actually experienced this on a fundamental level when I was meditating regularly, especially when I was going through a difficult time in my life, such as the death of my father. This quote from Buddha captures it well: "If you let cloudy water settle, it will become clear. If you let your upset mind settle, your course will also become clear."

I can't say whether Munson's technique would save any other marriage but Munson's. What I do believe is that she took a course of action that focused on getting her own needs met and not trying to fix her husband, including setting a timeframe for how long she was willing to give him to work through his existential crisis.

Barb
The Middle Way

Everyone is not the same...

CherylAnn — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:12:48 -0500

I think we must be careful not to try to subscribe a certain or specific reaction or behavior for others. Every person is different. Different needs, different desires. As well, every relationship is different.

There's not one answer to these situations. What's right for you may not be right for me. Forgiving someone for being unfaithful may be appropriate in one relationship, but doesn't make sense in another.

Sometimes a major crisis in a relationship can be turned into a learning moment if both parties happen to be open to the lessons at that time in their life. Other times, the crisis is the event that breaks the camel's back and one or both parties cannot recover from it.

I really don't think there's one response to relational crisis that fits everyone. We all make mistakes. But trying to pre-determine what we would do or "should" do doesn't really make sense. There may be mitigating circumstances. There may be stupid behaviors that only occur in a 3-month period over a 40-year marriage. Maybe you should bolt...maybe you should be forgiving.

No one answer fits all. Maybe that's why the divorce rate is so high. People's expectations of their spouse is too high, too demanding, too unforgiving. Many of us would do well to learn to use problems in relationships as teachable moments instead of as an excuse for a vengeful spirit and hiring a divorce lawyer.

Cheryl

Makeup Foundation Tips

The crux of the matter

SmartHer — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 23:55:08 -0500

In the end it come to this - "Do you want the guy and if so, what price are you willing to pay for it?"

Things just get odder...

Leighbra — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 17:16:48 -0500

There have been long-suffering wives since the beginning of marriage, but it's so so so odd to read about it. I guess that if you're going to be a long-suffering wife, society kinda expects you to suffer quietly.

Really, the only way to know if she did what was right for her and her kids is to see how it plays out. Hind-sight being 20/20 and all that.

I'm so hoping for a follow up article!

agreed

Mir Kamin — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:38:37 -0500

Great points, Deb. I would love to read a "one year later" account, because it seems like it would have to be either "we are better and stronger" or "we're calling it quits."

--
Mir Kamin
(BlogHer contributing editor)

Personal: Woulda Coulda Shoulda

Having it all with less: Want Not

We need more writing about the heartbreak and joy in staying

debontherocks — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 16:35:16 -0500

I've been on both sides of that type of crisis. I know that as the one in flux, you long for someone to stay. To hold the ground--but it is actually very hard to be raw and messy and cause pain while someone stays. And to be the one who holds the ground--that is heartbreakingly hard. MUCH easier to leave, for both sides.

I think there is a lot, a whole lot, to be said about where we don't let individuals have room within the context of primary relationships, including the room to breathe through a crisis or life shift. But even if an affair is not involved, personal crisis in relationships can feel like a breach of intimacy. And certainly a loss of innocence at what the words "we" and "us" mean. I hope Munson writes a follow-up piece about what happened a year later. Did the fabric of "them" repair? Was it stronger, or with a faultline?

Deb
www.debontherocks.com blog
www.3smartgirlz.com consulting

Bizarre Article

dianaelee — Mon, 03 Aug 2009 15:44:55 -0500

I wasn't quite sure what to think of that column, either. I can certainly understand why her friends were appalled with her choice to put up with that bs from her husband. I pretty much thought it sounded like she was being a doormat. I don't think saving your marriage at any cost is especially noble. "So what if he treats me like dirt so long as we stay together!" Ummm, actually, the quality of my relationship *does* matter. A lot. It's only worth staying together if you're both committed and working at it. When one person checks out and stays checked out I don't think you do yourself any favors by ignoring it. And if an affair was involved, then all these comments still reflect my views, only even more strongly.

Visit me at http://somebodyhealme.dianalee.net